Jeremy's assumptions about his sister's meds and relatives' opinions

[Lucy522]

We've talked about this on many occasions. Caroline actually managed to contact someone who was in charge of the exchange. Can't recall the details. Suffice to say things were very different, then, to how they are, now.

I haven't seen that. Apologies

[Jane]

I haven't seen that. Apologies

No worries, Lucy

[Roch]

Sheila and Jeremy weren't that close to the relatives, there was quite an age gap and the relatives weren't fully informed of Sheila's illness. Jeremy could and did say what he liked - all the close family were dead so couldn't argue. Like any criminal, he thought he was cleverer - he wasn't.

Presumably though, if he had witnessed her struggling due to various meds - he must have factored in that he would not be the only person who had witnessed this.  Therefore, there might be a risk in attempting to infer that events were the result of a frenzied killing spree by Sheila.

I think the truth is closer to what Hartley has expressed - which is that there were times when she was struggling and times when she seemed brighter and more spritely. 

[Lucy522]

Did you hear of shopkeeper Barry Parker's account of that visit? Sheila was described as "vague and distant", she showed no interest in the children, she had lipstick smudged over her teeth. She did manage to speak, saying "I like them" when referring to the boys' new pumps, but it seemed as usual that June was the one in charge.

Yes that's what I was referring to, I agree Sheila was very compliant with June.

[Steve_uk]

I personally think it was Neville who took the first shots, he was the greatest threats, maybe he ran downstairs honestly thinking she wouldn't hurt her boys. Whatever happened something was going on in the farm that night, Neville was rude on the phone which was unheard of, Sheila didn't say goodnight on the phone to her aunt. Something was brewing and Jeremy wasn't there.

Remember it had to be thought that Nevill had made a call, and there was no bedroom telephone. He either had to be marched downstairs to the vicinity of the kitchen telephone or Jeremy had to replace one from the kitchen back to the bedroom before he left.

[Lucy522]

Presumably though, if he had witnessed her struggling due to various meds - he must have factored in that he would not be the only person who had witnessed this.  Therefore, there might be a risk in attempting to infer that events were the result of a frenzied killing spree by Sheila.

I think the truth is closer to what Hartley has expressed - which is that there were times when she was struggling and times when she seemed brighter and more spritely.

I think given that June had said she wanted her friend or family member to pray for Sheila and asked for someone to come and form an opinion of her health as he was so worried, June knew Sheila was heading for another breakdown, and the person who was sat at the table and said Sheila was very quiet an blurted out all people are evil and should be killed, they knew something was brewing.

[Adam]

Remember it had to be thought that Nevill had made a call, and there was no bedroom telephone. He either had to be marched downstairs to the vicinity of the kitchen telephone or Jeremy had to replace one from the kitchen back to the bedroom before he left.

Maybe Nevill was planning to leave a message on Bamber's answering machine. Although Bamber had turned it off that night.

[Lucy522]

Remember it had to be thought that Nevill had made a call, and there was no bedroom telephone. He either had to be marched downstairs to the vicinity of the kitchen telephone or Jeremy had to replace one from the kitchen back to the bedroom before he left.

Steve can you explain please not sure if I've missed  something here.

[Steve_uk]

I'm always interested to know what others understand as being "normal".

Len Foakes saw Sheila at 12:30pm on the Tuesday with one of the boys and Crispy. She smiled to him and said "Hello Len". June took her to see Elizabeth Smith that afternoon and again all appeared normal. The usual routine for Nicholas and Daniel was for them to go up to bed at 7:30pm after their bath. Probably a bit early but they were only six years old.

[Steve_uk]

If bamber shot her why wait a while for the second shot! Why not finish it there and then? Or Sheila could of shot her self and sat there dazed and in tremendous pain and shot herself again to finish it off.

He probably dithered as to what to do. Sheila's hand would have involuntarily gone up to her neck, which is where the smudging occurred. He then probably put the weapon in her hand and squeezed the trigger for the second shot.

[Steve_uk]

Okay then, explain why Neville was rude on the phone earlier in the evening which was unheard of? Sheila was off on the phone to her aunt, her bed wasn't slept in and witness said something was going on that night, when Jeremy wasn't there?

He was probably tired after a hard day, Jeremy had left without collecting the last load of rape and with Sheila showing no interest in the twins he may have felt that too much of the childcare burden was falling on his wife. The fact that he asked Barbara why she had not come in that day suggests that the problem was about workload. One wonders to what extent Nevill understood his daughter's illness.

[Jane]

Len Foakes saw Sheila at 12:30pm on the Tuesday with one of the boys and Crispy. She smiled to him and said "Hello Len". June took her to see Elizabeth Smith that afternoon and again all appeared normal. The usual routine for Nicholas and Daniel was for them to go up to bed at 7:30pm after their bath. Probably a bit early but they were only six years old.

So going by that, "Hello Len" means 'normal'? Elizabeth Smith thinks "all appeared normal" but the shop keeper who saw her prior to her visit with ES, clearly didn't think lipstick on teeth was 'normal'. It really becomes a little confusing, doesn't it?

[Roch]

I think given that June had said she wanted her friend or family member to pray for Sheila and asked for someone to come and form an opinion of her health as he was so worried, June knew Sheila was heading for another breakdown, and the person who was sat at the table and said Sheila was very quiet an blurted out all people are evil and should be killed, they knew something was brewing.

Jeremy Bamber is in prison because he would have inherited.  Once his mam and dad were killed, there was nobody to protect him from Robert Boutflour and his daughter.  His daughter had already labelled Jeremy as a 'threat' (to their livelihoods) prior to the killings.  This is a very telling event (IMO) - as it clearly marks Jeremy's card.  Some of Jeremy's own behaviour has simply reinforced the relatives' suspicion of him.  The result being - anything that could be gleaned from events that pointed towards Sheila was dismissed.  Everything that could be interpreted as pointing towards Jeremy was soaked up and fed upon in a kind of frenzy.

[Steve_uk]

Can you imagine June's reaction - upon realising that Sheila had possibly shot the twins?

There's no evidence June left the master bedroom, being pinned to the pillow by Jeremy's first salvo. He would then have to scamper back downstairs to reload, which is totally unrealistic for Sheila to accomplish.

[susan]

Nevill could have rushed downstairs already injured wanting to phone the police or Jeremy for help but hot on his tail was Sheila I seem to recall blood was found on the worktop by the phone.