Jeremy's assumptions about his sister's meds and relatives' opinions

[Lucy522]

One of the conundrums with a guilty JB scenario is how Sheila was seemingly easily coerced to lay down and be shot without a struggle, and if this whole 'framing Sheila' plan was premeditated, how could JB have been so confident that the option to do so would be achievable.

Sheila being in a medicated unresponsive state is suggested to overcome this hurdle.

I don't see that happening personally, it makes no sense, who would lay down to be executed with their babies on the next room? And at what awkward angle would this weapon of had to be fired at to achieve these wounds?  Jeremy would of literally had to get her to sit down then practically lay in front of her to do this? Do you see anyone doing this? Willingly? There were no defence wounds so she would of had to be totally compliant, or this was done at her own hand!? Why take that risk?

[Adam]

I don't see that happening personally, it makes no sense, who would lay down to be executed with their babies on the next room? And at what awkward angle would this weapon of had to be fired at to achieve these wounds?  Jeremy would of literally had to get her to sit down then practically lay in front of her to do this? Do you see anyone doing this? Willingly? There were no defence wounds so she would of had to be totally compliant, or this was done at her own hand!? Why take that risk?

Sheila was easy to control. You know this. Bamber knew this as he had seen her hours earlier.

Anyway, can you explain how Sheila committed the massacre. To match the crime scene. You didn't in my recent thread.

Please include 1/2 phone calls from Nevill. A savage kitchen fight & two rifle chamber/breach/reloads.

You can pretend that Sheila was not on Haloperidol.

[Jane]

Personally I don't see her being totally incapable of doing anything, if this was the case that she could barely get out of bed I would hope June Neville and Colin would of intervened and Been of the view, if she was incapable of looking after herself, it would be potentially dangerous and totally unfair on 2 young boisterous children to be in the care of someone in this state, yes Sheila was on medication, yes it would of affected her somewhat but I don't see any responsible doctor prescribing a drug to a young mother of twins medication that rendered her incapable of doing anything,  even to the point she couldn't hold a conversation.

Lucy, we're given polarized versions of how Sheila was. I believe them all because ALL are possible. I don't believe her to have been a danger to her children in any way OTHER than she was unreliable and unpredictable. THAT is what the various descriptions of her behaviour lead me to believe.

I really don't know what to make of the alleged conversation re child care. The boys lived -for the most part- with Colin. Sheila was on a short visit to the farm -in fact was due to go back on the Thursday because the boys were going away with Colin on Friday- I'm really curious as to exactly WHEN this alleged child care was thought to be needed which in turn, make me suspicious that such a conversation took place. The situation -between Colin, his family, the Bambers and Sheila- was being managed.

[guest2181]

I don't see that happening personally, it makes no sense, who would lay down to be executed with their babies on the next room? And at what awkward angle would this weapon of had to be fired at to achieve these wounds?  Jeremy would of literally had to get her to sit down then practically lay in front of her to do this? Do you see anyone doing this? Willingly? There were no defence wounds so she would of had to be totally compliant, or this was done at her own hand!? Why take that risk?

Yes it's a bit of a mystery, but we simply don't know the answer. The drugs may have been a factor or she may have been absolutely petrified after seeing June lying dead on the floor, she may have already seen her children or she may have been threatened that they would be killed if she didn't comply.

I don't know how, in a 'JB guilty scenario' he could be so certain that he would be able to coerce and frame Sheila. I've previously suggested that it may be the case that the option to frame Sheila simply presented itself rather than being the original plan. Just theorising though. 

[Lucy522]

Sheila was easy to control. You know this.

Anyway, can you explain how Sheila committed the massacre. To match the crime scene. You didn't in my recent thread.

Please include 1/2 phone calls from Nevill. A savage kitchen fight & two rifle chamber/breach/reloads.

You can pretend that Sheila was not on Haloperidol.

Why would I need to pretend Adam? If you read my previous reply I put I accept Sheila was on medication that would of affected her somewhat, to the degree you claim, I don't think that's true, that's my opinion, I'm entitled to it as are you, we don't need to agree which is the whole point of this forum to challenge different views, you come accross as so aggressive, in order to make up a plausible scenario you need to go through every piece much like a jigsaw until it all fits together, for me it's not doing that at all either way right now which is why I'm here.

[Jane]

One of the conundrums with a guilty JB scenario is how Sheila was seemingly easily coerced to lay down and be shot without a struggle, and if this whole 'framing Sheila' plan was premeditated, how could JB have been so confident that the option to do so would be achievable.

Sheila being in a medicated unresponsive state is suggested to overcome this hurdle.

He couldn't have "known". He could only have planned for and wouldn't have planned for anything he believed might fail. We also have no idea of what sort of threats/coercion was placed on her.

[Lucy522]

Yes it's a bit of a mystery, but we simply don't know the answer. The drugs may have been a factor or she may have been absolutely petrified after seeing June lying dead on the floor, she may have already seen her children or she may have been threatened that they would be killed if she didn't comply.

I don't know how, in a 'JB guilty scenario' he could be so certain that he would be able to coerce and frame Sheila. I've previously suggested that it may be the case that the option to frame Sheila simply presented itself rather than being the original plan. Just theorising though. 

I know, I guess we will never really know, I just have a hard time thinking a woman would accept this, she had no defence wounds so if the boys had already been killed she had not got into a physical altercation with anyone, surely there would of been some kind of physical contact on her part?

[Adam]

Why would I need to pretend Adam? If you read my previous reply I put I accept Sheila was on medication that would of affected her somewhat, to the degree you claim, I don't think that's true, that's my opinion, I'm entitled to it as are you, we don't need to agree which is the whole point of this forum to challenge different views, you come accross as so aggressive, in order to make up a plausible scenario you need to go through every piece much like a jigsaw until it all fits together, for me it's not doing that at all either way right now which is why I'm here.

So you agree that Sheila could not have committed the massacre. Good.

Bamber could easily have moved Sheila a few feet. He had lots of options.

[Lucy522]

Lucy, we're given polarized versions of how Sheila was. I believe them all because ALL are possible. I don't believe her to have been a danger to her children in any way OTHER than she was unreliable and unpredictable. THAT is what the various descriptions of her behaviour lead me to believe.

I really don't know what to make of the alleged conversation re child care. The boys lived -for the most part- with Colin. Sheila was on a short visit to the farm -in fact was due to go back on the Thursday because the boys were going away with Colin on Friday- I'm really curious as to exactly WHEN this alleged child care was thought to be needed which in turn, make me suspicious that such a conversation took place. The situation -between Colin, his family, the Bambers and Sheila- was being managed.

I believe the conversation did take place, it would of had to, June had asked her friend to pray for Sheila and said she wanted her to come and form an opinion of her health, this was a worried mother/gramdparenti

[Jane]

I know, I guess we will never really know, I just have a hard time thinking a woman would accept this, she had no defence wounds so if the boys had already been killed she had not got into a physical altercation with anyone, surely there would of been some kind of physical contact on her part?

I occurs to me that she probably was unaware that the boys were dead. Surely, had she known -had she SEEN them- her first instincts would have been to have held them?

[Lucy522]

So you agree that Sheila could not have committed the massacre. Good.

Bamber could easily have moved Sheila a few feet. He had lots of options.

That's not what I said is it Adam? Seriously? Is that best you can come up with? And if he moved her after shooting her there would of been blood smears, t was said she was shot sitting up and had not moved after the first shot was fired.

[Lucy522]

I occurs to me that she probably was unaware that the boys were dead. Surely, had she known -had she SEEN them- her first instincts would have been to have held them?

My thoughts exactly, Jane.

[guest2181]

I know, I guess we will never really know, I just have a hard time thinking a woman would accept this, she had no defence wounds so if the boys had already been killed she had not got into a physical altercation with anyone, surely there would of been some kind of physical contact on her part?

I understand your concerns, but I do think that it's possible that Sheila simply froze out of fear, as Jane just mentioned, we don't know what (if any) threats were used to coerce Sheila.

Looking at this in isolation, it seems fairly reasonable to consider the alternative of Sheila being responsible.

[Adam]

I believe the conversation did take place, it would of had to, June had asked her friend to pray for Sheila and said she wanted her to come and form an opinion of her health, this was a worried mother/gramdparenti

The direct & indirect evidence from PB, BW, Sheila, June & Nevill , hours before the massacre show there was no fostering conversation.

It's obvious why Bamber said there was. Although he made a mistake saying Sheila was 'non responsive' & 'not paying attention'. As the judge said the alledged conversation cannot be used as a reason for the massacre.

[guest2181]

I occurs to me that she probably was unaware that the boys were dead. Surely, had she known -had she SEEN them- her first instincts would have been to have held them?

That's a fair point.