Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[JackieD]

I've read her book.  Though I thought it was well written, I felt it was a poor representation of the case.  I sense that she has a pro-police / pro-authorities confirmation bias.  One could be forgiven for wondering whether she either led JB on, and he then placed too much trust in her which she exploited. I wonder whether she was unable to grasp the complexities of the issues he was trying to inform her about - so she reached for the more familiar world of police explanations - a bit like a CCRC caseworker, who has been assured by EP that all is above board regarding curation of the negatives and therefore dismisses the explanation by the defence as to why the missing images of a particular location are so important. 

Let's say there were five key aspects of the case that defence researchers could agree on, that were damaging to the police / prosecution / conviction.  If they tried to get that in to a quality documentary, I do not believe it would happen.  Contrast that with the adaptation of CAL's book, with all its investment and stars, which for all intents and purposes will be seen by the majority of a mass audience as being an accurate representation of the facts.  In that sense, it is propaganda.  The program makers were allowed to shut out the defence. They should have been made to mention that in captions. 

Then we have Roy Tyzack (if he's bona-fide) who's been inside EP, knows that this case is fetid and is a very sensitive matter to bring up behind closed doors.  If I was CAL, I would be contemplating 'how come this senior ex-detective from within EP has come to the view... have I missed something?'. 

She's done alright out of it.  Whether she lives to regret it - who knows.  I like to think she could do in old age.

What do you mean if Roy Tyzack is bona-fide ??
He 100% is, I have met him and he was on a training course and the person and his wife who were training him as a paramedic stayed at Little Baddow Fruit Farm and he discussed the problems he had run into investigating the case
Find him on Facebook and ask him

[Steve_uk]

I've read her book.  Though I thought it was well written, I felt it was a poor representation of the case.  I sense that she has a pro-police / pro-authorities confirmation bias.  One could be forgiven for wondering whether she either led JB on, and he then placed too much trust in her which she exploited. I wonder whether she was unable to grasp the complexities of the issues he was trying to inform her about - so she reached for the more familiar world of police explanations - a bit like a CCRC caseworker, who has been assured by EP that all is above board regarding curation of the negatives and therefore dismisses the explanation by the defence as to why the missing images of a particular location are so important. 

Let's say there were five key aspects of the case that defence researchers could agree on, that were damaging to the police / prosecution / conviction.  If they tried to get that in to a quality documentary, I do not believe it would happen.  Contrast that with the adaptation of CAL's book, with all its investment and stars, which for all intents and purposes will be seen by the majority of a mass audience as being an accurate representation of the facts.  In that sense, it is propaganda.  The program makers were allowed to shut out the defence. They should have been made to mention that in captions. 

Then we have Roy Tyzack (if he's bona-fide) who's been inside EP, knows that this case is fetid and is a very sensitive matter to bring up behind closed doors.  If I was CAL, I would be contemplating 'how come this senior ex-detective from within EP has come to that view... have I missed something?'. 

She's done alright out of it.  Whether she lives to regret it - who knows.  I like to think she could do in old age.

But there is very little of a personal nature involving Jeremy's side of the story: the relationship he had with his mother, father and sister, why he thought Suzette went back to Jersey..we just don't know. It's my opinion that he clammed up the moment the white prison van arrived late and sped away to Wormwood Scrubs, the expression on his face revealing more than he has ever divulged since, as he came to the realization he had been rumbled, just as his secret at Gresham's had been discovered all those years before. Never again would he put his trust in any individual, preferring to languish in jail on his own terms rather than confide. It's why successive lawyers have drawn a blank, along with Trudi, her predecessors and successors, condemned to extracting trivia rather than addressing head-on the fundamentals of the case.

[Steve_uk]

As usual your post is a joke?
“You understand”

What? Have you got a hot line to Colin?
Where do you understand this from?
The fact is you don’t know do you?

If a man is capable of violence it’s likely to have happened more than once but Colin likes to make things up doesn’t he?

How big was Colin and how small was Sheila?

Why were her children fostered why didn’t he look after his children when his wife was seriously ill?

Did Colin have a girlfriend at the time of the murders? Or was he planning to get back with Sheila as he told the press?
Why did Colin only include Jeremys letters in his book not his replies?
EVERYTHING Colin did would have had an  affect on Sheilas mental health

Let’s post some facts and the truth on here Steve because I am sick to death of your “I understands”

Nobody with any heart could not fail to be moved by what may be his last ever interview on the case. He has a genuine insight into this story and its major protagonists, and it's clear to me that though June might not have caused Sheila's schizophrenia her condition was exacerbated every time she spent time in her mother's company. The irony was that by the end there had been an improvement in relations between the two as June relented somewhat: she was making arrangements for an allowance for her daughter to be paid quarterly, Sheila had, after all, been bought a flat in London, which would not have happened without June's approval and she seemed to be given free rein there. I could imagine the Bambers also paying for the boys' private education and wishing to see more of them during the school holidays involving longer stays at the Farm in the future.

Nobody really knows what pertains in a marriage apart from the two who are in it. Sheila was ill and needed help. Colin may have been unprepared fo the onslaughts he faced and immature in having a fling when the opportunity presented itself. I'm unconvinced of these so-called "alternative cures" for what is undoubtedly a serious mental illness. But he grew into the part: he kept on amicable terms with her and her parents and shouldered the responsibilities of parenthood exceptionally well when the full implications of her illness became clear. 

[Roch]

What do you mean if Roy Tyzack is bona-fide ??
He 100% is, I have met him and he was on a training course and the person and his wife who were training him as a paramedic stayed at Little Baddow Fruit Farm and he discussed the problems he had run into investigating the case
Find him on Facebook and ask him

I hope that he is bona-fide. But given his former pay grade etc, by posting his remark on Change.Org, he will have no doubt drawn the attentions of defence supporters like moths round a lamp. And if people are sharing appeal related info, they might want to exercise caution just to be on the safe side. I think they will be cautious tbh, from what I have heard.

When you say investigate the case, do you mean in the capacity of a retired, former officer?

[JackieD]

Nobody with any heart could not fail to be moved by what may be his last ever interview on the case. He has a genuine insight into this story and its major protagonists, and it's clear to me that though June might not have caused Sheila's schizophrenia her condition was exacerbated every time she spent time in her mother's company. The irony was that by the end there had been an improvement in relations between the two as June relented somewhat: she was making arrangements for an allowance for her daughter to be paid quarterly, Sheila had, after all, been bought a flat in London, which would not have happened without June's approval and she seemed to be given free rein there. I could imagine the Bambers also paying for the boys' private education and wishing to see more of them during the school holidays involving longer stays at the Farm in the future.

Nobody really knows what pertains in a marriage apart from the two who are in it. Sheila was ill and needed help. Colin may have been unprepared fo the onslaughts he faced and immature in having a fling when the opportunity presented itself. I'm unconvinced of these so-called "alternative cures" for what is undoubtedly a serious mental illness. But he grew into the part: he kept on amicable terms with her and her parents and shouldered the responsibilities of parenthood exceptionally well when the full implications of her illness became clear.

Let’s deal with the violence and affairs that Sheila had to deal with. That breaks my heart.


Mental health statistics: domestic violence

Some 1.2 million women and 700,000 men experience domestic violence each year, according to the Office for National Statistics.1

However, these figures relate only for official reports of violence, with the real figure likely to be much higher. The effect on survivors' mental health is profound and obvious.

Domestic violence has an estimated overall cost to mental healthcare of £176 million.2
Research suggests that women experienceing domestic abuse are more likely to experience a mental health problem, while women with mental health problems are more likely to be domestically abused, with 30-60% of women with a mental health problem having experienced domestic violence.3
Domestic violence is associated with depression, anxiety, PTSD and substance abuse in the general population.4
Exposure to domestic violence has a significant impact on children's mental health. Many studies have found strong links with poorer educational outcomes and higher levels of mental health problems.5

[JackieD]

Sheila suffered domestic abuse fact and don’t even try to excuse his behaviour.
Is there any evidence Jeremy punched women?
Your arguments are always so weak

[JackieD]

Nobody with any heart could not fail to be moved by what may be his last ever interview on the case. He has a genuine insight into this story and its major protagonists, and it's clear to me that though June might not have caused Sheila's schizophrenia her condition was exacerbated every time she spent time in her mother's company. The irony was that by the end there had been an improvement in relations between the two as June relented somewhat: she was making arrangements for an allowance for her daughter to be paid quarterly, Sheila had, after all, been bought a flat in London, which would not have happened without June's approval and she seemed to be given free rein there. I could imagine the Bambers also paying for the boys' private education and wishing to see more of them during the school holidays involving longer stays at the Farm in the future.

Nobody really knows what pertains in a marriage apart from the two who are in it. Sheila was ill and needed help. Colin may have been unprepared fo the onslaughts he faced and immature in having a fling when the opportunity presented itself. I'm unconvinced of these so-called "alternative cures" for what is undoubtedly a serious mental illness. But he grew into the part: he kept on amicable terms with her and her parents and shouldered the responsibilities of parenthood exceptionally well when the full implications of her illness became clear.

You keep quoting the Bambers bought Sheila a flat in London and the Bamber bought Jeremy a cottage so I hope you can prove that or instead of trying to mislead the forum do you mean the Bambers bought the flat and the cottage to add to there property portfolio or do you mean the Bambers bought the properties and handed over the deeds to Sheila and Jeremy

[lookout]

Jeremy is now taking legal action with prison services for refusing to downgrade him from maximum security status.

" In written documents before the court JB's barrister Matthew Stanbury said his client, who is being held at HMP Wakefield, " is a model prisoner ", " He acts as a peer mentor teaching other prisoners to read and write " said Mr Stanbury.

He has a partner and support network within the community. 

Mr. Stanbury said that an independent psychologist's report commissioned by JB's solicitor concluded that JB had met the test for downgrading a Cat.A prisoner and that these conditions were no longer necessary for managing him.

The rest of this news can be found in the DM online.

[Steve_uk]

You keep quoting the Bambers bought Sheila a flat in London and the Bamber bought Jeremy a cottage so I hope you can prove that or instead of trying to mislead the forum do you mean the Bambers bought the flat and the cottage to add to there property portfolio or do you mean the Bambers bought the properties and handed over the deeds to Sheila and Jeremy

I doubt Sheila owned the flat outright, but I just don't know. Bourtree Cottage was part of the Bamber portfolio because Len Foakes was moved out to make way for Jeremy Bamber. It had also been mooted by June to install Sheila therein at one point but this idea must have fallen through.

[Steve_uk]

Jeremy is now taking legal action with prison services for refusing to downgrade him from maximum security status.

" In written documents before the court JB's barrister Matthew Stanbury said his client, who is being held at HMP Wakefield, " is a model prisoner ", " He acts as a peer mentor teaching other prisoners to read and write " said Mr Stanbury.

He has a partner and support network within the community. 

Mr. Stanbury said that an independent psychologist's report commissioned by JB's solicitor concluded that JB had met the test for downgrading a Cat.A prisoner and that these conditions were no longer necessary for managing him.

The rest of this news can be found in the DM online.

Isn't this all academic lookout? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54512137

[Steve_uk]

Julie wasn't consulted..https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7984669/Jeremy-Bambers-girlfriend-helped-jail-murders-seen-Canadian-home.html

[JackieD]

Jeremy is now taking legal action with prison services for refusing to downgrade him from maximum security status.

" In written documents before the court JB's barrister Matthew Stanbury said his client, who is being held at HMP Wakefield, " is a model prisoner ", " He acts as a peer mentor teaching other prisoners to read and write " said Mr Stanbury.

He has a partner and support network within the community. 

Mr. Stanbury said that an independent psychologist's report commissioned by JB's solicitor concluded that JB had met the test for downgrading a Cat.A prisoner and that these conditions were no longer necessary for managing him.

The rest of this news can be found in the DM online.

That’s brilliant news Lookout and well overdue. Hopefully he will have a lot more free time to work on his case

[JackieD]

I doubt Sheila owned the flat outright, but I just don't know. Bourtree Cottage was part of the Bamber portfolio because Len Foakes was moved out to make way for Jeremy Bamber. It had also been mooted by June to install Sheila therein at one point but this idea must have fallen through.

Well let’s make that clear, nobody bought any property for Sheila or Jeremy so don’t mislead posters

[Steve_uk]

Well let’s make that clear, nobody bought any property for Sheila or Jeremy so don’t mislead posters

I wasn't intending to mislead. The fact that June was in the process of giving her daughter a quarterly allowance for the 28th birthday and doing this through legal means might raise the possibility that sometime in the future the flat would also become legally hers.

Let's not distract from the bigger picture though. With Sheila and the twins dispatched and their worldly possessions put in black bin bags for the dustmen to collect the flat became Jeremy's property on 7 August 1985, along with Bourtree Cottage and £436,000 of his parents' savings.

[JackieD]

Julie wasn't consulted..https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7984669/Jeremy-Bambers-girlfriend-helped-jail-murders-seen-Canadian-home.html

I bet she was gutted Steve. She must of thought she would get paid for being portrayed in the drama?