Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Jane]

Although Nevill would have been standing up there is a possibly he may have swallowed quite a lot of the blood from his mouth wound....  just a suggestion.

That's what I suggested but was told he have spat it out. IF so, where did he spit it? DRIBBLED maybe? Down the front of his pyjamas?

[maggie]

That's what I suggested but was told he have spat it out. IF so, where did he spit it? DRIBBLED maybe? Down the front of his pyjamas?

I had a really bad mouth injury when I was 19 and it bled profusely, I can confirm that when standing/sitting the blood settles in the base of your mouth.  It's an automatic reflex action to swallow when you have fluid in your mouth therefore even standing much of the blood could be swallowed.  Nevil obviously would have spat out blood straight after the injury, I'm sure but it's difficult to know without knowing more about his facial wound ie whether it bled outwardly down his face or rather into his mouth  or both.  There's certainly no doubt mouth and facial wounds bleed profusely.
Awful injury imo, it must have been horrific for Nevil to cope with.

[Jane]

I had a really bad mouth injury when I was 19 and it bled profusely, I can confirm that when standing/sitting the blood settles in the base of your mouth.  It's an automatic reflex action to swallow when you have fluid in your mouth therefore even standing much of the blood could be swallowed.  Nevil obviously would have spat out blood straight after the injury, I'm sure but it's difficult to know without knowing more about his facial wound ie whether it bled outwardly down his face or rather into his mouth  or both.  There's certainly no doubt mouth and facial wounds bleed profusely.
Awful injury imo, it must have been horrific for Nevil to cope with.

I wouldn't argue with that, Maggie.

[Caroline]

That's what I suggested but was told he have spat it out. IF so, where did he spit it? DRIBBLED maybe? Down the front of his pyjamas?

No one can say either was what he would have done, however, if he spat it out there would be evidence of it.

[Jane]

No one can say either was what he would have done, however, if he spat it out there would be evidence of it.

Indeed, and as his mouth muscles wouldn't have been working properly he may not have been able to spit.

[Lucy522]

If he spat it out there would be a lot of it, you have huge veins in your tongue alone, also you would be pumped full of adrenalin  so your heart would be beating faster and harder, for him to of got downstairs with those injuries I am surprised there are no bloodied hand prints on the walls or bannister, let alone a fight for life would of seen him put his hands on the walls table and or floor your reaction is to put your hands out to steady yourself, it makes no sense, even breathing blood would of cone out in droplets he would of been coughing as well I'd imagine so where is all the blood from the bedroom to the kitchen? I'd say those injuries were caused in the kitchen hence the blood pooling from his head into the coal scuttle?? It makes no sense

[guest1199]

Or perhaps it's just your opinion that I did.

I know baloney when I read it, and I've had enough for one day.

Good day to you!

[Jane]

I know baloney when I read it, and I've had enough for one day.

Good day to you!

Bee'ayve!

[maggie]

If he spat it out there would be a lot of it, you have huge veins in your tongue alone, also you would be pumped full of adrenalin  so your heart would be beating faster and harder, for him to of got downstairs with those injuries I am surprised there are no bloodied hand prints on the walls or bannister, let alone a fight for life would of seen him put his hands on the walls table and or floor your reaction is to put your hands out to steady yourself, it makes no sense, even breathing blood would of cone out in droplets he would of been coughing as well I'd imagine so where is all the blood from the bedroom to the kitchen? I'd say those injuries were caused in the kitchen hence the blood pooling from his head into the coal scuttle?? It makes no sense

I can see your point Lucy.  I am trying to remember but I'm sure you don't necessarily cough from blood in your mouth but he lost some teeth as well and they would probably have splintered I imagine.  I agree he would probably have tried to spit them out.  I agree he would have put his hands to his face and mouth, he probably didn't have pain but would have been aware of an injury.   

He would probably have swallowed a lot of blood tho' if you drink water and hold it in your mouth your first instinct is to swallow rather than to spit, you spit if you think you're going to choke.  It's difficult but as I say I get your argument, there was the bloody hand print on the work top in the kitchen which looks as though someone was maybe steadying themselves.  Imo it's the kind of injury which would really traumatise and make a person unsteady on their feet or even faint.  As I said earlier it could have meant Nevil fell against the table and chairs and knocked stuff about in the kitchen. 

The 'struggle in the kitchen' may have been very one sided with Nevil unable to fight back at all.  Possibly finally collapsing in a chair where he was beaten around the head and shot.  He would have to have been lower than his assailant to be shot in the head as he was such a tall guy.   

[Lucy522]

I can see your point Lucy.  I am trying to remember but I'm sure you don't necessarily cough from blood in your mouth but he lost some teeth as well and they would probably have splintered I imagine.  I agree he would probably have tried to spit them out.  I agree he would have put his hands to his face and mouth, he probably didn't have pain but would have been aware of an injury.   

He would probably have swallowed a lot of blood tho' if you drink water and hold it in your mouth your first instinct is to swallow rather than to spit, you spit if you think you're going to choke.  It's difficult but as I say I get your argument, there was the bloody hand print on the work top in the kitchen which looks as though someone was maybe steadying themselves.  Imo it's the kind of injury which would really traumatise and make a person unsteady on their feet or even faint.  As I said earlier it could have meant Nevil fell against the table and chairs and knocked stuff about in the kitchen. 

The 'struggle in the kitchen' may have been very one sided with Nevil unable to fight back at all.  Possibly finally collapsing in a chair where he was beaten around the head and shot.  He would have to have been lower than his assailant to be shot in the head as he was such a tall guy.

It's hard to form an opinion as there are no photos of Neville or what he was wearing, I imagine by the time hed got downstairs hed be extremely weak and disorientated so if presume it was very one sided, perhaps that's why there were no defence wounds on Sheila?

[maggie]

It's hard to form an opinion as there are no photos of Neville or what he was wearing, I imagine by the time hed got downstairs hed be extremely weak and disorientated so if presume it was very one sided, perhaps that's why there were no defence wounds on Sheila?

I agree it was probably very one sided whoever fought Nevil. JB didn't have any defensive injuries.  I cannot believe Sheila would stand a chance against Nevil even if psychotic because of his height and reach although she was reasonably tall she was very slight but if he was badly injured she would have had the advantage and it changes everything imo. 

[Lucy522]

I agree it was probably very one sided whoever fought Nevil. JB didn't have any defensive injuries.  I cannot believe Sheila would stand a chance against Nevil even if psychotic because of his height and reach although she was reasonably tall she was very slight but if he was badly injured she would have had the advantage and it changes everything imo.

Yes most definitely, Its just overkill again though, why batter him as well? Why shoot the boys 4/5 times and her mother and father so many? She had to be psychotic, the staging makes no sense if he could of got in and out why not just leave it as murder why the suicide set up? I really don't think Jeremy did it but I have wondered this week whether IF that pbonevall was made, Neville had a gun to his head and whoever had it wanted Jeremy there,?

[Caroline]

It's hard to form an opinion as there are no photos of Neville or what he was wearing, I imagine by the time hed got downstairs hed be extremely weak and disorientated so if presume it was very one sided, perhaps that's why there were no defence wounds on Sheila?

He was wearing PJ's

[Jane]

Yes most definitely, Its just overkill again though, why batter him as well? Why shoot the boys 4/5 times and her mother and father so many? She had to be psychotic, the staging makes no sense if he could of got in and out why not just leave it as murder why the suicide set up? I really don't think Jeremy did it but I have wondered this week whether IF that pbonevall was made, Neville had a gun to his head and whoever had it wanted Jeremy there,?

Lucy, the whole point was to make it look as if Sheila had done it.

[Lucy522]

Lucy, the whole point was to make it look as if Sheila had done it.

Or maybe she had