Author Topic: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.  (Read 103555 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #105 on: March 15, 2017, 10:19:PM »
Why so, Lookout? 999 is it's own emphasis.





It was a way of pointing out that the line had been left open on a 999 call as at 04.04 someone knew that call came through to HQ.Was Targrass ever questioned ?

Offline Scales

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #106 on: March 15, 2017, 10:24:PM »
His Method of entry is interesting as well,i used to live in a house with an old Yale lock, I knew that if I leaned on it it would pop the door open, I also had a friend who's parents owned a caravan, he could get into that with a knife under the window, boys often know these things.

To me its quite possible Mugfords conversation with the plod was just a tailoring of what she has heard him say previously, which she then put in a big soup.

Offline David1819

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #107 on: March 15, 2017, 10:26:PM »
Jeremy said he knew how to enter the bathroom and kitchen windows. Locked or unlocked.

Indeed. Jeremy said you can use a thin metal blade to force open the window the catch. However BEFORE and AFTER the murders took place there were no scratch marks found on those windows. The scratch marks found on the 1st of October were put there on the 16th of September when Jeremy had no keys.

So can you please prove how he entered the farm that night?

Offline Jane

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #108 on: March 15, 2017, 10:27:PM »




It was a way of pointing out that the line had been left open on a 999 call as at 04.04 someone knew that call came through to HQ.Was Targrass ever questioned ?

I'd have said that you can't make these things up, but you obviously do. I doubt anyone would leave the emergency line open for all that time. According to the TFG, they convened at the pub in Tiptree at around 5am. It would have taken several minutes to get to WHF from there. They also said they were advised that the family were probably all dead. Whoever told them that had it right.

Offline Adam

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #109 on: March 15, 2017, 10:30:PM »
His Method of entry is interesting as well,i used to live in a house with an old Yale lock, I knew that if I leaned on it it would pop the door open, I also had a friend who's parents owned a caravan, he could get into that with a knife under the window, boys often know these things.

To me its quite possible Mugfords conversation with the plod was just a tailoring of what she has heard him say previously, which she then put in a big soup.

That is correct. Julie said what Bamber had told her pre massacre. And then afterwards. It is called a Witness Statement. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #110 on: March 15, 2017, 10:36:PM »
Indeed. Jeremy said you can use a thin metal blade to force open the window the catch. However BEFORE and AFTER the murders took place there were no scratch marks found on those windows. The scratch marks found on the 1st of October were put there on the 16th of September when Jeremy had no keys.

So can you please prove how he entered the farm that night?

You know Bamber entered WHF via the bathroom window. Which he said he knew how to.

The judge said the found hacksaw, which was Bamber's, and the scratch marks, which Bamber made,  may have been used on the massacre night.

There is also a strong chance Bamber left the bathroom window ajar when he visited for the last supper. No one would notice. If they did they may not bothered shutting it. It was summer.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #111 on: March 15, 2017, 10:36:PM »
Indeed. Jeremy said you can use a thin metal blade to force open the window the catch. However BEFORE and AFTER the murders took place there were no scratch marks found on those windows. The scratch marks found on the 1st of October were put there on the 16th of September when Jeremy had no keys.

So can you please prove how he entered the farm that night?
Didn't Julie say you could bang on the window and it would unhook from the lock? And didn't one of the Police attempt this himself?

Offline David1819

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #112 on: March 15, 2017, 10:46:PM »
You know Bamber entered WHF via the bathroom window. Which he said he knew how to.

The judge said the found hacksaw, which was Bamber's, and the scratch marks, which Bamber made,  may have been used on the massacre night.

There is also a strong chance Bamber left the bathroom window ajar when he visited for the last supper. No one would notice. If they did they may not bothered shutting it. It was summer.

Adam. If the scratch marks were not there on the 22nd of August or from the 8th to the 10th of September. Confirmed by Lunn what was wound on the 1st of October was not there when he looked from the 8th to the 10th of September. What does that mean?


June to July  - Windows freshly painted
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August 7th 1985 - Massacre
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August 22nd  - Police examine windows find no scratch marks.
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September 8th 9th 10th - Police re-examine bathroom windows after JM "comes forward" they find nothing.
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September 16th Jeremy needed to get travel documents from WHF forgot key. Used hacksaw to enter via bathroom window
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October 1st DI Cook and Brian Elliot discover scratch marks and hack saw.


So can you please prove how Jeremy entered the farm.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:47:PM by David1819 »

Offline lookout

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #113 on: March 15, 2017, 11:00:PM »
I'd have said that you can't make these things up, but you obviously do. I doubt anyone would leave the emergency line open for all that time. According to the TFG, they convened at the pub in Tiptree at around 5am. It would have taken several minutes to get to WHF from there. They also said they were advised that the family were probably all dead. Whoever told them that had it right.





Two separate logs were made pertaining to EP and the TFG. One set were EP communications log and the other set were the wireless communications log,the latter not having been exhibited at court.
Bonnett had referred to the Incident log which was part of EP communications log so the confusion of these two totally separate and different documents led to police obscuring facts about the 03.26 phone call.
EP communications log and incident log were one and the same but had been treated as two logs. Is it any wonder that EP made a pigs ear of everything ?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #114 on: March 15, 2017, 11:03:PM »
Why would his passport be held at White House Farm anyway? And why not telephone the relatives and ask to be let in to retrieve them?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #115 on: March 16, 2017, 12:12:AM »




Two separate logs were made pertaining to EP and the TFG. One set were EP communications log and the other set were the wireless communications log,the latter not having been exhibited at court.
Bonnett had referred to the Incident log which was part of EP communications log so the confusion of these two totally separate and different documents led to police obscuring facts about the 03.26 phone call.
EP communications log and incident log were one and the same but had been treated as two logs. Is it any wonder that EP made a pigs ear of everything ?

FGS!  ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline David1819

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #116 on: March 16, 2017, 12:43:AM »
Why would his passport be held at White House Farm anyway?

It was not just his passport. It was also something to do with hiring a car abroad. So I am assuming it was the counterpart driving licence.

Also consider Jeremy had only moved in headstreet cottage the previous year.

And why not telephone the relatives and ask to be let in to retrieve them?

Seriously?

Why drive to a telephone box, call his relatives drive back to WHF and then wait for them to drive down from Wix if he can just climb through the window?

Offline Jane

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #117 on: March 16, 2017, 08:28:AM »




Two separate logs were made pertaining to EP and the TFG. One set were EP communications log and the other set were the wireless communications log,the latter not having been exhibited at court.
Bonnett had referred to the Incident log which was part of EP communications log so the confusion of these two totally separate and different documents led to police obscuring facts about the 03.26 phone call.
EP communications log and incident log were one and the same but had been treated as two logs. Is it any wonder that EP made a pigs ear of everything ?

In a case where, at times, the left hand never knew what the right hand was doing, I wonder how long it took them -and who they found to do it- to link it all together and then deconstruct it to the point where they could frame an  -allegedly- innocent man. The police, theoretically, could do their own dirty work, internally, but who was going to make certain that pathologists/psychiatrists/legal counsel/judge/witnesses were nobbled and would remain so -without breaking silence- for 30+ years..........................but Hang On!!! They didn't remain silent did they? What about all those late night visitors with silly names Mike allegedly played host to? What about all those he had secret assignations with, requiring him to travel all over all over England, Spain and Turkey(?) Every man Jack of them swearing they knew that Jezza wuz dun over. Swearing they were there -or they knew a man that was! Swearing they'd seen pictures. Eager to tell their story (probably recommended by their counselors as a way of dealing with their collective PTSD)..................but not quite so concerned that they rushed to use the information to get an -allegedly- innocent man released................

................So where are we now? We have a CT beating the drum for Jeremy by organizing Bake June's Cakes days. We have a blond woman spouting about lovely Jeremy in front of a camera and reading a letter from Jeremy over the graves of the parents he slaughtered. Tasteful, that. We have those hoping to coin it in via highly secret "scientific breakthroughs" carried out in their bedroom using a laptop and material he's filched from someone else's research. We have those creating so many bullets and so many switched numbers it would make Pythagarus blink. We have a legal team working their way through the 3.5 million pages of documents and the God knows how many thousand pages of PII stuff -that Jeremy told Caroline were in his possession but supporters STILL insist are being held by EP- because there is nothing that points to his innocence.......................

................To answer the question, we appear to be back to where we were at the beginning. Because every one is hoping to go down in legal history as the person responsible for freeing Jeremy Bamber -and the dosh that will go with it!!!- the left hand STILL doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Folks, we have ourselves a farce that Brian Rix would be proud of.

Offline lookout

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #118 on: March 16, 2017, 10:11:AM »
FGS!  ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D




You might well gasp,but this is the sort of " mistake " that DOES happen when there are " too many cooks " !! The right hand clearly didn't know what the left hand was doing in this situation and for once,they had to WORK ! Because it began as an utter shambles,it continued that way.

Offline lookout

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Re: Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.
« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2017, 10:15:AM »
In a case where, at times, the left hand never knew what the right hand was doing, I wonder how long it took them -and who they found to do it- to link it all together and then deconstruct it to the point where they could frame an  -allegedly- innocent man. The police, theoretically, could do their own dirty work, internally, but who was going to make certain that pathologists/psychiatrists/legal counsel/judge/witnesses were nobbled and would remain so -without breaking silence- for 30+ years..........................but Hang On!!! They didn't remain silent did they? What about all those late night visitors with silly names Mike allegedly played host to? What about all those he had secret assignations with, requiring him to travel all over all over England, Spain and Turkey(?) Every man Jack of them swearing they knew that Jezza wuz dun over. Swearing they were there -or they knew a man that was! Swearing they'd seen pictures. Eager to tell their story (probably recommended by their counselors as a way of dealing with their collective PTSD)..................but not quite so concerned that they rushed to use the information to get an -allegedly- innocent man released................

................So where are we now? We have a CT beating the drum for Jeremy by organizing Bake June's Cakes days. We have a blond woman spouting about lovely Jeremy in front of a camera and reading a letter from Jeremy over the graves of the parents he slaughtered. Tasteful, that. We have those hoping to coin it in via highly secret "scientific breakthroughs" carried out in their bedroom using a laptop and material he's filched from someone else's research. We have those creating so many bullets and so many switched numbers it would make Pythagarus blink. We have a legal team working their way through the 3.5 million pages of documents and the God knows how many thousand pages of PII stuff -that Jeremy told Caroline were in his possession but supporters STILL insist are being held by EP- because there is nothing that points to his innocence.......................

................To answer the question, we appear to be back to where we were at the beginning. Because every one is hoping to go down in legal history as the person responsible for freeing Jeremy Bamber -and the dosh that will go with it!!!- the left hand STILL doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Folks, we have ourselves a farce that Brian Rix would be proud of.





You've veered off somewhat,apart from your final line as Neville named EP the " Keystone Cops ",a very apt description !