After He called police at 3.36am, Jeremy was put on hold immediately for 5 min's

[Stephanie]

These facts prove to me he had no morals, no scruples and no respect for his family

What would be the next step up for a burglar?

The facts are Jeremy robbed from his own family for personal gain.

He says his motive was to prove a point but the facts say otherwise.

What was the classification of this crime? Does anyone know?

[Jane]

Police are there to record the facts, and to record accurate times for recordable events. It is not a policemans role to speculate or to change what has been said, into what he/she thinks should have been said. Nothing further to add...

So what are you suggesting that Jeremy didn't tell them that they wrongly recorded OR are you suggesting Jeremy withheld what could have been vital information. WHO did Jeremy suggest to them had hold of the gun? If you're insisting that Jeremy mentioned didn't mention sister, who would he have relayed as having the gun? 

[lookout]

That's for Mike to know and you to find out.

[mike tesko]

Those first 5 minutes into Jeremy's 3.36am call to Chelmsford police station, then presenting themselves as a platform to enable the enquirer a unique opportunity to test the validaty of the claim that (a) Jeremy Bamber was the killer, (b) that Neville did not call Jeremy about any unfolding drama back at the farmhouse, (c) that Jeremy had not tried to ring his father back at least twice, or got an engaged tone, (d) that Jeremy had not tried to contact Witham police station, (e) that Jeremy had not rung his girlfriend at 3.30am, etc, etc, etc...

But, stop!!!

If such a call was received from Neville, by Jeremy at 5.25am, then surely he didn't kill his family, because what he has said all along is the truth. Something which is problematic to the argument that Jeremy's call had been at 3.26am, rather than at 3.36am, is the relationship between the deployment of the occupants of CA07 (3.35am) and CA05 (3.36am) prior to Jeremy being able to speak at all to PC West until around 3.41am, and PC Wests contacting the operator at 3.42am, whilst Jeremy was still on the line? In the court of appeal judgement, the appellate bench acknowleged with bewilderment the fact that the occupants of CA07 had been deployed to the scene prior to Jeremy having made his 3.36am call to PC West at Chelmsford police station. It seems obvious to me, that if the appellate court sitting in judgement in a case such as this, can come to a decision which effectively accepts that at least three police officers, Bews, Myall and Saxby, were en route to the incident prior to Jeremy alerting them to anything untoward occurring at the farmhouse, that the police must have been in possession of some evidence or other that was not given to them by Jeremy Bamber...

With Jeremy's call being put back 10 minutes, as suggested to 3.26am, from 3.36am, it goes against that, which the appellate court has already made a judgement upon - the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the incident prior to Jeremy's call to the police!!!

I need go no further...

[mike tesko]

What would be the next step up for a convicted burglar?

The facts are Jeremy robbed from his own family for personal gain. He did not, that is not true. It wasn't certain at the time of the tragedy who all the beneficiaries to the parents estate(s) might have been...

He says his motive was to prove a point but the facts say otherwise.

What was the classification of this crime? Does anyone know?

[Jane]

What Jeremy reports Neville said in his 3.25am call, was reported by Neville himself in Nevilles 3.26am call, which in turn was reported by Jeremy to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The proof that Jeremy was told what he was told by Neville, lies in the message that Neville passed to police at 3.26am, and the wording in the 3.36am log of Jeremy's account. What you end up with, are accurate accounts by different parties to the same matter, separated by time, and why records exist spoken, and recorded in the first person, the second person, or the third person. This combination of accounts at different sources is what makes what I am suggesting as being true, the universal truth in this matter. If all this information, recorded at different sources, by this person saying this and that person saying that, you would not be here in this situation trying to make it all fit into one person being accountable for everything that is said by anybody, recorded here there and everywhere, at this time and that time. The reason it sits like it does is because the different events spoken about came from two original sources, one at 3.26am, the other timed at 3.36am...

You're certainly managing to make intricately difficult what is actually supremely simple. If we take what you suggest as being fact, it's convoluted. If we take what was presented, it's clear. Jeremy took an age to make a non urgent call rather than calling 999. He alleges his father gave him a message which he passes on to the police. Muddling sister/daughter to try to nudge in another call from Nevill and accusing police of losing/withholding it doesn't do it for me.

[Jane]

Are you saying Julie did the Osea break in on her own?

[mike tesko]

There is nothing at all convoluted in the way all these reported events panned out, overlapped, or attach themselves to one or other of the accepted events. That's what happens with real events, they can never be explained in isolation, a sequence of true events sits well with other features in the same event/matter. As a result of such events all being linked as such in sequential order, if anyone tries to argue an event out of sequence it throws all the other sequential events into chaos...

That is why I can say that Jeremy received a call from Neville, I can rely upon that being the truth because this event (3), is proven by events (4) and (11). I also know that Jeremy spoke the truth when he said that he rung Neville back twice but got the engaged tone each time. How do I know this? I know this to be true because of events (3), (4), (5) and (6). I know that Jeremy tried to contact Witham police station prior to phoning Julie at 3.30am. How do I know this? I know this to be true by reference to the events (1), (2), (7) and (9). I know that what Jeremy has said at different times that he phoned Julie after he phoned the police, and he phoned Julie before he phoned police, to both be true, by reference to events (7), (8), and (11). I know that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station was not made at 3.26am, but rather at 3.36am, by reference to events (9), (10), (11), and (12) - Jeremy was not in touch with Chelmsford police (3.36am) until after the deployment of CA07, he was still on the line when PC West spoke to a female operator at 3.42am, things which do not sit in sequence once you dishonestly seek to move the timing of Jeremy's call back to 3.26am, from 3.36am...

My methods are tried and tested. If you start inteferring with timed events by suggesting they occurred at a different time, it throws everything in the sequential line of events into chaos. That is where Essex police, and the prosecuting authorities have dug a very deep hole for themselves. If anyone wants to believe in all the lies which these people have told and are telling, you are all welcome to jump or fall into the huge hole they have dug for themselves, and any of you who may unwisely choose to follow blindly into the abyss!!!

The sequence of events (Now known) (19 Events in 'sequential of order')...

Event 1

Around 3.15am - CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) leave Witham police station to deal with a separate incident


Event 2

10 minutes

Prior to 3.25am - Nevill attempts to call Witham police Station but gets 'no response'...

Event 3

under a minute

Around 3.25am - Neville alerts Jeremy with brief telephone call


Event 4

1 minute?

3.26am - Neville contacts Chelmsford police station, as per the 3.26am (C1) Communications Log. He leaves phone off hook (indefinitely)...


Event 5

under a minute

Around 3.26am, - Jeremy attempts to call Nevill back but gets an engaged tone
.

Event 6

1 minute?

Around 3.27am?, - Jeremy attempts to call Neville back but gets an engaged tone

Event 7

2 minutes

Around 3.29am - Jeremy attempts to contact Witham police station but gets no response


Event 8

1 minute

3.30am - Jeremy calls Julie, 'there's something wrong at home, she tells him to 'go back to bed'

Event 9

5 minutes

3.35am - Occupants CA07 (Bews, Myall, Saxby) deployed to scene

Event 10

1 minute?

3.36am - Occupants CA05 deployed to scene

Event 11

under a minute?

3.36am - Jeremy calls Chelmsford police station and speaks to PC West, who then places him on hold for 5 minutes

Event 12

5 minutes

3.41am - 'PC West' contacts female operator regarding telephone at white house farm

Event 13

5 minutes

3.46am - Jeremy is sent to scene by PC West, and told he will be met there by police who have already been deployed to the incident

Event 14

2 minutes

3.48am - arrival of CA07 at the scene. Information recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communications log

Event 15

4 minutes

3.52am - arrival of Jeremy at scene

Event 16

4 minutes

3.56am - Operator confirms phone at farmhouse has been left off hook. Information recorded on Bonnets (CA) Communication log


Event 17

2 minutes

Around 3.58am - Jeremy tells Bews, Myall and Saxby, about types of firearm which are kept inside the farmhouse. This information is relayed to CD and recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communication log

Event 18

4 minutes

4.02am - Bews, Myall and Jeremy, enter grounds of farmhouse, and see figure at main bedroom window

Event 19

20 minutes

4.22am - Occupants of CA05 arrive at scene. Information is recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communication log

[Stephanie]

He did not, that is not true. It wasn't certain at the time of the tragedy who all the beneficiaries to the parents estate(s) might have been...

I am referring to the Caravan park robbery Mike, you appear to be jumping ahead.

[Stephanie]

What would be the next step up for a convicted burglar?

The facts are Jeremy robbed from his own family for personal gain - The caravan park

He says his motive was to prove a point but the facts say otherwise.

What was the classification of this crime? Does anyone know?

Mike why are you ignoring these facts?

Jeremy had a track record for dishonesty. He burgled the family caravan park.

Why should we believe his claims about the alleged call from Nevill?

He wasn't reformed!

He was growing and supplying weed when he was arrested for the murders. This suggests a progression in terms of his criminality.

[mike tesko]

Mike why are you ignoring these facts? I don't ignore any facts, fact is I like facts, something which to pin my hat upon without having to worry about whether this is true or that is true/ Facts are important when you have a number of events that you want to try and work out the sequence with which each event in the overal sequence of events occurred. This is where timings come into play. This allows you, or me, or anyone to satisfy ourselves that this or that occurred in this sequence or that sequence...

Why should we believe his claims about the alleged call from Nevill? I have given my explanation in my previous post. Event (3) is proven by Events (4) and (11)...

He wasn't reformed!

He was growing and supplying weed when he was arrested for the murders. This suggests a progression in terms of his criminality. I don't seek to deny this aspect of his criminality, however, let us also not forget that Julie was selling drugs, not only on Jeremy's behalf, but on behalf of other house mates of hers, who were drug dealors, and drug users. The lot of them had Criminal convictions for drug dealing or drug abuse. With this in mind, how does this reflect upon the potential for Julie Mugford to be a killer one day? What about her housemates? Perhaps if the prosecuting authorities turn you into a prosecution witness, it somehow makes you a reformed character!!! Yeah, Right...

[Adam]

There is nothing at all convoluted in the way all these reported events panned out, overlapped, or attach themselves to one or other of the accepted events. That's what happens with real events, they can never be explained in isolation, a sequence of true events sits well with other features in the same event/matter. As a result of such events all being linked as such in sequential order, if anyone tries to argue an event out of sequence it throws all the other sequential events into chaos...

That is why I can say that Jeremy received a call from Neville, I can rely upon that being the truth because this event (3), is proven by events (4) and (11). I also know that Jeremy spoke the truth when he said that he rung Neville back twice but got the engaged tone each time. How do I know this? I know this to be true because of events (3), (4), (5) and (6). I know that Jeremy tried to contact Witham police station prior to phoning Julie at 3.30am. How do I know this? I know this to be true by reference to the events (1), (2), (7) and (9). I know that what Jeremy has said at different times that he phoned Julie after he phoned the police, and he phoned Julie before he phoned police, to both be true, by reference to events (7), (, and (11). I know that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station was not made at 3.26am, but rather at 3.36am, by reference to events (9), (10), (11), and (12) - Jeremy was not in touch with Chelmsford police (3.36am) until after the deployment of CA07, he was still on the line when PC West spoke to a female operator at 3.42am, things which do not sit in sequence once you dishonestly seek to move the timing of Jeremy's call back to 3.26am, from 3.36am...

My methods are tried and tested. If you start inteferring with timed events by suggesting they occurred at a different time, it throws everything in the sequential line of events into chaos. That is where Essex police, and the prosecuting authorities have dug a very deep hole for themselves. If anyone wants to believe in all the lies which these people have told and are telling, you are all welcome to jump or fall into the huge hole they have dug for themselves, and any of you who may unwisely choose to follow blindly into the abyss!!!

The sequence of events (Now known) (19 Events in 'sequential of order')...

Event 1

Around 3.15am - CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) leave Witham police station to deal with a separate incident


Event 2

10 minutes

Prior to 3.25am - Nevill attempts to call Witham police Station but gets 'no response'...

Event 3

under a minute

Around 3.25am - Neville alerts Jeremy with brief telephone call


Event 4

1 minute?

3.26am - Neville contacts Chelmsford police station, as per the 3.26am (C1) Communications Log. He leaves phone off hook (indefinitely)...


Event 5

under a minute

Around 3.26am, - Jeremy attempts to call Nevill back but gets an engaged tone
.

Event 6

1 minute?

Around 3.27am?, - Jeremy attempts to call Neville back but gets an engaged tone

Event 7

2 minutes

Around 3.29am - Jeremy attempts to contact Witham police station but gets no response


Event 8

1 minute

3.30am - Jeremy calls Julie, 'there's something wrong at home, she tells him to 'go back to bed'

Event 9

5 minutes

3.35am - Occupants CA07 (Bews, Myall, Saxby) deployed to scene

Event 10

1 minute?

3.36am - Occupants CA05 deployed to scene

Event 11

under a minute?

3.36am - Jeremy calls Chelmsford police station and speaks to PC West, who then places him on hold for 5 minutes

Event 12

5 minutes

3.41am - 'PC West' contacts female operator regarding telephone at white house farm

Event 13

5 minutes

3.46am - Jeremy is sent to scene by PC West, and told he will be met there by police who have already been deployed to the incident

Event 14

2 minutes

3.48am - arrival of CA07 at the scene. Information recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communications log

Event 15

4 minutes

3.52am - arrival of Jeremy at scene

Event 16

4 minutes

3.56am - Operator confirms phone at farmhouse has been left off hook. Information recorded on Bonnets (CA) Communication log


Event 17

2 minutes

Around 3.58am - Jeremy tells Bews, Myall and Saxby, about types of firearm which are kept inside the farmhouse. This information is relayed to CD and recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communication log

Event 18

4 minutes

4.02am - Bews, Myall and Jeremy, enter grounds of farmhouse, and see figure at main bedroom window

Event 19

20 minutes

4.22am - Occupants of CA05 arrive at scene. Information is recorded on Bonnets (C1) Communication log

Mike, Bamber said Nevill called him at 3:10am.

If Nevill had time to  call Bamber, then the police straight afterwards, surely Nevill had time to say more than 11 words to Bamber.

Why didn't Nevill or Bamber call 999 ?

Chelmsford were able to get through to Witham straight away.

[lookout]

Why didn't JM report his growing and supplying ?

Because her and her flat-mates were doing well out of him ! A right mug wasn't he ? JM was also selling it long before she met JB,bringing it in from abroad. Who was her supplier there ? We've never found that out have we ?

[Jane]

Why didn't JM report his growing and supplying ?

Because her and her flat-mates were doing well out of him ! A right mug wasn't he ? JM was also selling it long before she met JB,bringing it in from abroad. Who was her supplier there ? We've never found that out have we ?

Please provide evidence of that one, Lookout. I wonder how she was able, prior to not meeting Jeremy until she was 20 and still a student, to afford the luxury of going abroad to deal/negotiate drugs?

[lookout]

Please provide evidence of that one, Lookout. I wonder how she was able, prior to not meeting Jeremy until she was 20 and still a student, to afford the luxury of going abroad to deal/negotiate drugs?

It's been well documented about her smuggling drugs back from Canada.Something that JB hadn't known about until after their relationship developed.
Who knows what she'd been up to before meeting JB. Wasn't she also in France where it was alleged that she got raped ?