After He called police at 3.36am, Jeremy was put on hold immediately for 5 min's

[Stephanie]

I am agreeing that what Jeremy says Neville told him about his sister having one of Nevilles guns, in his call to Jeremy, is precisely what Jeremy eventually got to speak to PC West about 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The only difference I suggest in what Neville told Jeremy was the mention of his 'sister' having one of his guns, as opposed to the reference of 'Sheila', or 'She has'...

I believe this was argubly the only difference in the interpretation of what Neville actuall might have said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy relayed to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call!!!

Why are you agreeing with what Jeremy claims his father said if you have yet to prove Jeremy received a call from his father in the first place?

[Jane]

I am agreeing that what Jeremy says Neville told him about his sister having one of Nevilles guns, in his call to Jeremy, is precisely what Jeremy eventually got to speak to PC West about 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The only difference I suggest in what Neville told Jeremy was the mention of his 'sister' having one of his guns, as opposed to the reference of 'Sheila', or 'She has'...

I believe this was argubly the only difference in the interpretation of what Neville actuall might have said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy relayed to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call!!!

The call to the police in which Jeremy alleged what Nevill said about Sheila allegedly having one of his guns has never been in dispute and as what Jeremy said was written down by the police, they have proof of what Jeremy alleged Nevill said. As I've previously said, calling 999 could have saved him a whole 'case' load of trouble.

[mike tesko]

I am agreeing that what Jeremy says Neville told him about his sister having one of Nevilles guns, in his call to Jeremy, is precisely what Jeremy eventually got to speak to PC West about 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The only difference I suggest in what Neville told Jeremy was the mention of his 'sister' having one of his guns, as opposed to the reference of 'Sheila', or 'She has'...

I believe this was argubly the only difference in the interpretation of what Neville actuall might have said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy relayed to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call!!!

The mention of the phrase 'My Daughter' was never mentioned by either Neville in his (3.25am) call to Jeremy, or by Jeremy in his (3.36am) call to PC West. There is nothing whatsoever, anywhere in anything which Jeremy said his father had said, and certainly nothing in what Jeremy actuall had said in his call to PC West, which resembles the phrase, ' My Daughter', or the singular word ' Daughter'.  Now, if the purpose of recording the call on audio tape was to make sure that the handwritten record matched precisely what was being said by the person making the call, where is the evidence that PC West contacted Malcom Bonnet and told him that Neville Bambers daughter had got hold of one of his guns? There is no reference at all to PC West being told that by Jeremy, or even saying such a thing to Malcom Bonnet after he received and dealt with Jeremy's call. Are we expected to believe, then that Bonnett made it up in his head, that he chose to make a log containing his interpretation of 'what Jeremy had told PC Wes't, even though Jeremy did not even get to speak with PC West until 5 minutes into his 3.36am call between them? How could Bonnett know about what Neville had told Jeremy, and what Jeremy had eventually been able to tell PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call, and record details of the conversation 15 minutes before Jeremy had got to speak to PC West?

Impossible!!!

[Jane]

The mention of the phrase 'My Daughter' was never mentioned by either Neville in his (3.25am) call to Jeremy, or by Jeremy in his (3.36am) call to PC West. There is nothing whatsoever, anywhere in anything which Jeremy said his father had said, and certainly nothing in what Jeremy actuall had said in his call to PC West, which resembles the phrase, ' My Daughter', or the singular word ' Daughter'.  Now, if the purpose of recording the call on audio tape was to make sure that the handwritten record matched precisely what was being said by the person making the call, where is the evidence that PC West contacted Malcom Bonnet and told him that Neville Bambers daughter had got hold of one of his guns? There is no reference at all to PC West being told that by Jeremy, or even saying such a thing to Malcom Bonnet after he received and dealt with Jeremy's call. Are we expected to believe, then that Bonnett made it up in his head, that he chose to make a log containing his interpretation of 'what Jeremy had told PC Wes't, even though Jeremy did not even get to speak with PC West until 5 minutes into his 3.36am call between them? How could Bonnett know about what Neville had told Jeremy, and what Jeremy had eventually been able to tell PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call, and record details of the conversation 15 minutes before Jeremy had got to speak to PC West?

Impossible!!!

It hardly matters WHO was being referred to in the alleged call. The thrust of it was that someone had gone mad and got hold of a gun. I think we may be clear that Jeremy wouldn't, if he'd adopted the third person, have referred to his sister as being his daughter. The message wouldn't have been passed over as Jeremy Bamber saying his daughter had got hold of a gun but may well have been passed of as Jeremy Bamber said Nevill Bamber had claimed his daughter had got hold of a gun.

[mike tesko]

Why are you agreeing with what Jeremy claims his father said if you have yet to prove Jeremy received a call from his father in the first place?

I am saying that there is real proof that Neville did call Jeremy at around 3.25am. This proof is borne out by the fact that Neville himself had called the police at 3.26am. I am suggesting that this has the support of whatever exchange you want to place upon Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, 5 minutes into that telephone call. I am saying that Jeremy never said that Neville had told him, 'My Daughter has got hold of one of my guns', and I am saying, that Jeremy never told PC West, that Neville had said, 'My Daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. If such evidence exists and you know about it, please refer me to it. No, Neville never spoke those words to Jeremy in his 3.25am, telephone call. Jeremy has never said Neville had used those words. Jeremy refers to 'Sheila has got the gun' when he reports Nevilles phone call to him, and what Neville said - albeit, and since, Jeremy has questioned himself as to whether Neville had used the term, 'She has', or 'your sisters, got the gun'. He has never said, and as far as I am aware, that he has never mention it once, has Jeremy ever been quoted as saying that 'Sheila', or 'She has', or Your sister has got one of my guns'....

No, he hasn't, and he didn't!!!

Moreover, what PC West says that Jeremy told him, is there for all to see, in PC Wests Police Communications log, timed at 3.36am:-

 

[Jane]

I am saying that there is real proof that Neville did call Jeremy at around 3.25am. This proof is borne out by the fact that Neville himself had called the police at 3.26am. I am suggesting that this has the support of whatever exchange you want to place upon Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, 5 minutes into that telephone call. I am saying that Jeremy never said that Neville had told him, 'My Daughter has got hold of one of my guns', and I am saying, that Jeremy never told PC West, that Neville had said, 'My Daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. If such evidence exists and you know about it, please refer me to it. No, Neville never spoke those words to Jeremy in his 3.25am, telephone call. Jeremy has never said Neville had used those words. Jeremy refers to 'Sheila has got the gun' when he reports Nevilles phone call to him, and what Neville said - albeit, and since, Jeremy has questioned himself as to whether Neville had used the term, 'She has', or 'your sisters, got the gun'. He has never said, and as far as I am aware, that he has never mention it once, has Jeremy ever been quoted as saying that 'Sheila', or 'She has', or Your sister has got one of my guns'....

No, he hasn't, and he didn't!!!

Moreover, what PC West says that Jeremy told him, is there for all to see, in PC Wests Police Communications log, timed at 3.36am:-

Jeremy had no need to say those words, but West would hardly relay whatever words by referring to Sheila as Jeremy's daughter. He'd have had to clarify who she was by saying that Nevill had allegedly called Jeremy to say his daughter -because she wasn't Nevill's sister- had gone mad.

[Stephanie]

The mention of the phrase 'My Daughter' was never mentioned by either Neville in his (3.25am) call to Jeremy, or by Jeremy in his (3.36am) call to PC West. There is nothing whatsoever, anywhere in anything which Jeremy said his father had said, and certainly nothing in what Jeremy actuall had said in his call to PC West, which resembles the phrase, ' My Daughter', or the singular word ' Daughter'.  Now, if the purpose of recording the call on audio tape was to make sure that the handwritten record matched precisely what was being said by the person making the call, where is the evidence that PC West contacted Malcom Bonnet and told him that Neville Bambers daughter had got hold of one of his guns? There is no reference at all to PC West being told that by Jeremy, or even saying such a thing to Malcom Bonnet after he received and dealt with Jeremy's call. Are we expected to believe, then that Bonnett made it up in his head, that he chose to make a log containing his interpretation of 'what Jeremy had told PC Wes't, even though Jeremy did not even get to speak with PC West until 5 minutes into his 3.36am call between them? How could Bonnett know about what Neville had told Jeremy, and what Jeremy had eventually been able to tell PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call, and record details of the conversation 15 minutes before Jeremy had got to speak to PC West?

Impossible!!!

But Mike you still haven't proved to us that Nevill phoned Jeremy in the first instance. Neither has Jeremy. In 32 years he has yet to answer the difficult questions the police put forward to him regarding the alleged call from his father and one has to wonder why this is.

What do we know of Jeremy's reputation at the time of his arrest?

He was a thief. A thief has a reputation for dishonesty.

Why then should we believe anything he says?

Why should we believe his claims that his father phoned. He knew he had a reputation for dishonesty. What efforts did he make to show he was a reformed character?

[mike tesko]

It hardly matters WHO was being referred to in the alleged call. The thrust of it was that someone had gone mad and got hold of a gun. I think we may be clear that Jeremy wouldn't, if he'd adopted the third person, have referred to his sister as being his daughter. The message wouldn't have been passed over as Jeremy Bamber saying his daughter had got hold of a gun but may well have been passed of as Jeremy Bamber said Nevill Bamber had claimed his daughter had got hold of a gun.

Jeremy had not told PC West that Neville had said his 'daughter' had got hold of 'one of my guns'. Furthermore, PC West did not record it as such. Hardly likly then, that PC West would couch what Jeremy says Neville told him, and what Jeremy told PC West, and what PC West recorded in his 3.36am log, differently when PC West spoke at some point to Malcom Bonnet at any stage after 3.36am (3.41am). PC West would surely use the words, and the phrases spoken to him by Jeremy, which he himself had recorded in his 3.36am log...

What this strongly suggests is that the contents of the 3.26am (C1) Communications found its way to the police by other means, and not from anything that Jeremy Bamber could have told PC West, simply because the body of the 3.26am log, are couched differently to Jeremys and PC Wests 3.36am log. Furthermore, If Jeremy's call had been at 3.26am, he couldn't have tried to call his father back a couple of times (3.25/3.26am), he couldn't have tried to contact Witham police station (3.29am), and he couldn't have telephoned Julie Mugford at 3.30am. He couldn't have been on hold for 5 minutes between 3.36am until 3.41am, with the length of his overal call lasting a maximum of 10 minutes, with PC Wests 3.42am call to a female operator taking place whilst he still had Jeremy on hold. None of this sits well when you try to move the timing of Jeremy's 3.36am call, back 10 minutes to 3.26am...

Finally, Nevilles call to the police was also not a '999' call, and he was present at the scene, maybe that should tell us all, that at around that time (3.26am) Ralph might have thought that he could get the better of his daughter...

[Adam]

The claim that Jeremy called Julie at 3.38am, is plainly wrong, and as such it can only hamper any CCRC application. I wish them good luck in trying to prove that claim.

So the CT should make a retraction and say Bamber's WS was wrong, and that Jeremy phoned Julie before the police. I always suspected he did.

How did Jeremy get to WHF by 3:50am if he was still at home at 3:46am ?

[lookout]

He may have been a thief but he was no liar and I'd rather a thief if there was a choice between the two.
Though I don't relish either.!

[Stephanie]

Jeremy had not told PC West that Neville had said his 'daughter' had got hold of 'one of my guns'. Furthermore, PC West did not record it as such. Hardly likly then, that PC West would couch what Jeremy says Neville told him, and what Jeremy told PC West, and what PC West recorded in his 3.36am log, differently when PC West spoke at some point to Malcom Bonnet at any stage after 3.36am (3.41am). PC West would surely use the words, and the phrases spoken to him by Jeremy, which he himself had recorded in his 3.36am log...

What this strongly suggests is that the contents of the 3.26am (C1) Communications found its way to the police by other means, and not from anything that Jeremy Bamber could have told PC West, simply because the body of the 3.26am log, are couched differently to Jeremys and PC Wests 3.36am log. Furthermore, If Jeremy's call had been at 3.26am, he couldn't have tried to call his father back a couple of times (3.25/3.26am), he couldn't have tried to contact Witham police station (3.29am), and he couldn't have telephoned Julie Mugford at 3.30am. He couldn't have been on hold for 5 minutes between 3.36am until 3.41am, with the length of his overal call lasting a maximum of 10 minutes, with PC Wests 3.42am call to a female operator taking place whilst he still had Jeremy on hold. None of this sits well when you try to move the timing of Jeremy's 3.36am call, back 10 minutes to 3.26am...

Finally, Nevilles call to the police was also not a '999' call, and he was present at the scene, maybe that should tell us all, that at around that time (3.26am) Ralph might have thought that he could get the better of his daughter...

Put aside what the relatives said about Jeremy. What were the known facts of Jeremy at that time?

He was a thief!

The reasons he gave for the burglary showed he thought he could take the law into his own hands.

Why didn't he tell his family about his concerns about security at the caravan park?

What right did he think he had for robbing the site of £900 and then going off and blowing the money?

Surely if he was proving a point as he suggested he wouldn't have spent the money? What did spending the money prove?

[Jane]

Jeremy had not told PC West that Neville had said his 'daughter' had got hold of 'one of my guns'. Furthermore, PC West did not record it as such. Hardly likly then, that PC West would couch what Jeremy says Neville told him, and what Jeremy told PC West, and what PC West recorded in his 3.36am log, differently when PC West spoke at some point to Malcom Bonnet at any stage after 3.36am (3.41am). PC West would surely use the words, and the phrases spoken to him by Jeremy, which he himself had recorded in his 3.36am log...

What this strongly suggests is that the contents of the 3.26am (C1) Communications found its way to the police by other means, and not from anything that Jeremy Bamber could have told PC West, simply because the body of the 3.26am log, are couched differently to Jeremys and PC Wests 3.36am log. Furthermore, If Jeremy's call had been at 3.26am, he couldn't have tried to call his father back a couple of times (3.25/3.26am), he couldn't have tried to contact Witham police station (3.29am), and he couldn't have telephoned Julie Mugford at 3.30am. He couldn't have been on hold for 5 minutes between 3.36am until 3.41am, with the length of his overal call lasting a maximum of 10 minutes, with PC Wests 3.42am call to a female operator taking place whilst he still had Jeremy on hold. None of this sits well when you try to move the timing of Jeremy's 3.36am call, back 10 minutes to 3.26am...

Finally, Nevilles call to the police was also not a '999' call, and he was present at the scene, maybe that should tell us all, that at around that time (3.26am) Ralph might have thought that he could get the better of his daughter...

Is not one's sister USUALLY also one's father's daughter -biological, foster, step, or adopted?

[Stephanie]

What did spending the money prove?

These facts prove to me he had no morals, no scruples and no respect for his family and was out for all he could get

[mike tesko]

Why are you agreeing with what Jeremy claims his father said if you have yet to prove Jeremy received a call from his father in the first place?

What Jeremy reports Neville said in his 3.25am call, was reported by Neville himself in Nevilles 3.26am call, which in turn was reported by Jeremy to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The proof that Jeremy was told what he was told by Neville, lies in the message that Neville passed to police at 3.26am, and the wording in the 3.36am log of Jeremy's account. What you end up with, are accurate accounts by different parties to the same matter, separated by time, and why records exist spoken, and recorded in the first person, the second person, or the third person. This combination of accounts at different sources is what makes what I am suggesting as being true, the universal truth in this matter. If all this information, recorded at different sources, by this person saying this and that person saying that, you would not be here in this situation trying to make it all fit into one person being accountable for everything that is said by anybody, recorded here there and everywhere, at this time and that time. The reason it sits like it does is because the different events spoken about came from two original sources, one at 3.26am, the other timed at 3.36am...

[mike tesko]

Is not one's sister USUALLY also one's father's daughter -biological, foster, step, or adopted?

Police are there to record the facts, and to record accurate times for recordable events. It is not a policemans role to speculate or to change what has been said, into what he/she thinks should have been said. Nothing further to add...