After He called police at 3.36am, Jeremy was put on hold immediately for 5 min's

[guest7363]

There's a heck of a difference in calls now,as so many are bogus,which emergency services have come to recognise,but in 1985,and ordinary call to the police under such circumstances as JB was in,would have sent cars just as quick as phoning 999.

Without spending 10 mins to look the number up.

[Jane]

There's a heck of a difference in calls now,as so many are bogus,which emergency services have come to recognise,but in 1985,and ordinary call to the police under such circumstances as JB was in,would have sent cars just as quick as phoning 999.

You'll have to back that up, Lookout. I refute, ENTIRELY the claim you're making, because the 999 system would have put out an All Cars Alert and the nearest car(s) to the area/scene would have responded immediately.

[lookout]

Without spending 10 mins to look the number up.

So he dallied about for 10 minutes ? Why is that seen as such a crime when he was probably half asleep and wondering what to do for the best ? This would apply to any 24 year old who was least expecting such news at that hour of the morning.
No doubt he was getting dressed at that point,so what ?

[mike tesko]

That is what I said two days ago Mike.

How could Bamber ring the police ar 3:36am he did ring Chelmsford police station at 3.36am if the call lasted 10 minutes, until 3:46am. This is true. His call to Julie was at 3.30am...And how could he ring Julie at 3:38am He couldn't have, and he didn't... which the CT say he did ?

The claim that Jeremy called Julie at 3.38am, is plainly wrong, and as such it can only hamper any CCRC application. I wish them good luck in trying to prove that claim.

[Jane]

So he dallied about for 10 minutes ? Why is that seen as such a crime when he was probably half asleep and wondering what to do for the best ? This would apply to any 24 year old who was least expecting such news at that hour of the morning.
No doubt he was getting dressed at that point,so what ?

He wouldn't have had to had he called 999. WASTING 10 precious minutes when his (terrified/sounding panicked) father may have a gun in his face? What WOULD it have taken to have persuaded him that 999 was the best option?

[lookout]

He wouldn't have had to had he called 999. WASTING 10 precious minutes when his (terrified/sounding panicked) father may have a gun in his face? What WOULD it have taken to have persuaded him that 999 was the best option?

As I said,he'd have been getting dressed during that time-----------as well as feeling scared as fear holds some people back especially if they've never been faced with an emergency.

[mike tesko]

Calling 999, unless the caller is a child in need of support, is understood to guarantee a much faster response that calling a local number...................but he never gave it a chance, did he?

He had no reason to call '999', he did not know that any shots had been fired by that stage, unless I have missed this occurence somehow. For all Jeremy might have known, his father was alive, at the time his father called him, and his father had not given him cause to suspect anybody else in the household had been shot. In addition he may have been further reassured that his father was taking control of the situation because when Jeremy tried to call Neville back, Jeremy had got an engaged tone - Jeremy might have thought his father was informing the police himself. Hence, why soon adterwards when he himself had tried to phone Witham police station, how he could not raise a response. For all we know Jeremy might have thought at the time that the reason why Witham police were not responding was because they had left to attend the incident as instructed by Neville as per his 3.26am phone log (C1). This feeling might have been exaserbated when upon finally getting through to Chelmsford police station (at 3.36am) he was placed on hold for five minutes, whislt PC West was dealing with another matter. It is this 5 minute period in which Jeremy was placed on hold  by PC West at 3.36am, which is of interest to me? What was PC West doing in any part of that first 5 minute period of Jeremy's 10 minute call? Well, we know, or should that be, we suspect that he had some involvement in deploying the occupants of CA05 to the scene at 3.36am, that is. But what was PC West doing for the next four minutes into Jeremy's call? The occupats of CA07 had already been deployed to the scene a minute or more prior to PC West receiving Jeremys call at 3.36am...

At 3.41am, or thereabouts, when Jeremy did eventually get to speak to PC West, he had the following to say:-

[Jane]

As I said,he'd have been getting dressed during that time-----------as well as feeling scared as fear holds some people back especially if they've never been faced with an emergency.

I don't believe he was UNdressed. I believe he was wasting time. However, if I suppose he was getting dressed, if he'd have called 999 first, cars would have already been on their way and if he'd wanted to delay getting there he'd have had time to make a cup of tea. Saying he held back out of fear doesn't wash, I'm afraid as there had been nothing previously to suggest a fearful personality.

[Jane]

He had no reason to call '999', he did not know that any shots had been fired by that stage, unless I have missed this occurence somehow. For all Jeremy might have known, his father was alive, at the time his father called him, and his father had not given him cause to suspect anybody else in the household had been shot. In addition he may have been further reassured that his father was taking control of the situation because when Jeremy tried to call Neville back, Jeremy had got an engaghed tone - Jeremy might have thought his father was informing the police himself. Hence, why soon adterwards when he himself had tried to phone Witham police station, how he could not raise a response. For all we know Jeremy might have thought at the time that the reason why Witham police were not responding was because they had left to attend the incident as instructed by Neville as per his 3.26am phone log (C1). This feeling might have been exaserbated when upon finally getting through to Chelmsford police station (at 3.36am) he was placed on hold for five minutes, whislt PC West was dealing with another matter. It is this 5 minute period in which Jeremy was placed on hold  by PC West at 3.36amwhich is of interest to me? What was PC West doing in any part of that first 5 minute period of Jeremy's 10 minute call? Well, we know or should that be we suspect that he had some involvement in deploying the occupants of CA05 to the scene at 3.36am, that is. But was was PC West doing for the next four minutes into Jeremy's call? The occupats of CA07 had already been deployed to the scene a minute or more prior to PC West receiving Jeremys call at 3.36am...

At 3.41am, or thereabouts, when Jeremy did eventually get to speak to PC West, he had the following to say:-

Are you saying that 999 can only be used if shots are fired? To the best of my understanding, calling 999 is also about PREVENTION, not just cure.

[mike tesko]

Not only that Jane, it would not take 10mins to look the number up.  Your right they usually say, an ambulance or police are on their way.

It didn't take 10 minutes to look up the telephone number of Chelmsford police station - where do you get that idea from? It took 4 to 5 minutes maximum, after 3.32 / 3.33am when he ended his call to Julie Mugford...

[guest7363]

It didn't take 10 minutes to look up the telephone number of Chelmsford police station - where do you get that idea from? It took 4 to 5 minutes maximum, after 3.32 / 3.33am when he ended his call to Julie Mugford...

I got the idea from Bamber.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5791

[mike tesko]

Calling 999, unless the caller is a child in need of support, is understood to guarantee a much faster response that calling a local number...................but he never gave it a chance, did he?

There was no requirement given the then known circumstances for Jeremy to call the police by using the '999' system. In any event, Jeremy's call to PC West was recorded on audio tape, similarly to what occurs using the '999' system. It seems to me, that the same units which attended the scene, would in any event have been the same police units which would be sent to the scene, had Jeremy thought to dial '999' instead. That being the case, I doubt whether someone on a switchboard could have got PC West, or the occupants of CA07, and CA05, to act any quicker than they already had done? Not only that, but what difference would Jeremy dialling 999 have made in any event after the call from Neville had got cut short? Since, by that stage (3.26am) Neville was already talking to the police, hence why the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the scene a minute prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station via the landline route. Jeremy dialling '999', as soon as the line between himself and Neille ended abruptly wouldn't have been an option for Jeremy. He might not have had that option until after he had tried to ring Neville back at least twice, and been met with an engaged tone on both occasions. So, at that stage, what good would it have done if Jeremy had dialled '999' at say 3.26am, considering that Neville was already speaking to the police by then (see (C1) Communications log, 3.26am)?

Nothing which Jeremy could have done any differently, was capable of alerting the police to deal with the unfolding drama, any sooner, because Neville was already in contact with police, regarding the same matter!!!

[mike tesko]

There has been many a headline stating that 999 calls aren't always adhered to as being urgent.

I am utterly satisfied that if Jeremy had gone the route of dialling '999', instead of the option he chose, that police would not have been alerted any sooner, nor acted any faster than they did, acting on the information received at 3.26am, from Neville Bamber, 'my daughter has got one of my guns'...

[mike tesko]

There's a heck of a difference in calls now,as so many are bogus,which emergency services have come to recognise,but in 1985,and ordinary call to the police under such circumstances as JB was in,would have sent cars just as quick as phoning 999.

Yes, no difference in the circumstances of this matter, since the police which responded to Nevilles call at 3.26am, were the same cops who responded to the same call, deployed to the incident at the farm, before Jeremy made his own 3.36am call to PC West...

[lookout]

I don't believe he was UNdressed. I believe he was wasting time. However, if I suppose he was getting dressed, if he'd have called 999 first, cars would have already been on their way and if he'd wanted to delay getting there he'd have had time to make a cup of tea. Saying he held back out of fear doesn't wash, I'm afraid as there had been nothing previously to suggest a fearful personality.

There's no proof one way or the other as to whether he was dressed/undressed.
There's a possibility that he was awaiting another call from his father.
I would have said that JB would have been useless in a crisis-------as a lot of people are. If JB had had a fearless personality he'd have been classed as one of the local thugs,so he really couldn't win any which way could he ? 
If he'd have been undressed when he rang 999,the police could have been outside his door ? It would have taken 10 minutes to have got dressed anyway while they waited.
As it happened,he was MADE to make his own way to WHF without their initial contact with him ?