After He called police at 3.36am, Jeremy was put on hold immediately for 5 min's

[mike tesko]

You'll have to back that up, Lookout. I refute, ENTIRELY the claim you're making, because the 999 system would have put out an All Cars Alert and the nearest car(s) to the area/scene would have responded immediately.

But, that's just it, the closest units to whf were deployed, and did race to the incident - the occupants of CA07 being one such vehicle (3.35am), obviously responding to Neville Bambers 3.26am call...

[Jane]

There was no requirement given the then known circumstances for Jeremy to call the police by using the '999' system. In any event, Jeremy's call to PC West was recorded on audio tape, similarly to what occurs using the '999' system. It seems to me, that the same units which attended the scene, would in any event have been the same police units which would be sent to the scene, had Jeremy thought to dial '999' instead. That being the case, I doubt whether someone on a swutchboard could have got PC West, or the occupants of CA07, and CA05, to act any quicker than they already had done? Not only that, but what difference would Jeremy dialling 999 have made after the call from Neville got cut short? Since, by that stage (3.26am) Neville was already talking to the police, hence why the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the scene a minute prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station via the landline route. Jeremy dialling '999', as soon as the line between himself and Neille wouldn't have been an ioption for Jeremy. He might not have had that option until after he had tried to ring Neville back at least twice and been met with an engaged tone on both occasions. So, at that stage, what good would it have done if Jeremy had dialled '999' at say 3.26am, considering that Neville was already speaking to the police by then (see (C1) Communications log, 3.26am)?

Nothing which Jeremy could have done any different was capable of alerting the police to deal with the unfolding drama, any sooner, because Neville was already in contact with police, regarding the same matter!!!

There was EVERY requirement. The alleged call from "panicked/terrified" Nevill told him his sister had gone mad and got hold of a gun.

[mike tesko]

He wouldn't have had to had he called 999. WASTING 10 precious minutes when his (terrified/sounding panicked) father may have a gun in his face? What WOULD it have taken to have persuaded him that 999 was the best option?

In all the circumstances of the case, it would not have made any difference if Jeremy had dialled '999', since, as I have already stated in clear unambiguous terms, that Neville Bamber was already in contact with the police by 3.26am, That which Jeremy was eventually able to tell PC West in his 3.36am call, which was clearly and unambiguosly recroded at the correct time he received Jeremy's call (3.36am), served to only confirm using a different set of words, that which Neville had told cops earlier - no mystery there then...

[Jane]

But, that's just it, the closest units to whf were deployed, and did race to the incident - the occupants of CA07 being one such vehicle (3.35am), obviously responding to Neville Bambers 3.26am call...

But Jeremy waited 10 minutes before making a local call. 999 would have had cars, possibly closer, already making their way there. We're told that one of the cars was driving very slowly. Would not have occurred -IF that's true- on a 999 shout.

[guest7363]

But, that's just it, the closest units to whf were deployed, and did race to the incident - the occupants of CA07 being one such vehicle (3.35am), obviously responding to Neville Bambers 3.26am call...

I thought the occupants of CA07 was meeting Bamber, if they were responding from a call from Neville they would have told Bamber this?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38123

[Jane]

In all the circumstances of the case, it would not have made any difference if Jeremy had dialled '999', since, as I have already stated in clear unambiguous terms, that Neville Bamber was already in contact with the police by 3.26am, That which Jeremy was eventually able to tell PC West in his 3.36am call, which was clearly and unambiguosly recroded at the correct time he received Jeremy's call (3.36am), served to only confirm using a different set of words, that which Neville had told cops earlier - no mystery there then...

So it's safe to inform the general public that they're wasting their time calling 999, is it? Yes, you have stated in unambiguous terms that you believe NB was already in contact .................in equally unambiguous terms, I don't believe he was.

[mike tesko]

Are you saying that 999 can only be used if shots are fired? To the best of my understanding, calling 999 is also about PREVENTION, not just cure.

No, I'm not saying that at all - the bottom line is that it doesn't matter a jot that Jeremy did not dial '999', at least not in the circumstances of the now known case. There may have been many reasons why he chose not to dial '999'. I can think of one straight off the top of my head. He knew he wanted to speak to the police, so he might have beleived it might  take longer having to be asked, 'which service' he required? But it really doesn't matter that he didn't dial '999', because even if he had, the police could not possibly have been alerted any quicker than they already had been at 3.26am, by Neville Bambers call. Now, you might want to argue that Neville Bamber had not made that 3.26am call, but I assure you that he did, and it can be proven that he did. Now, what I am interested in, is the initial 5 minute period when Jeremy made his 3.36am call to Chelmsford police station. I understand you will be suggesting that Jeremys call is the 3.26am call, although I do not agree with that suggestion because in order for that to be true, Jeremy couldn't have made his 3.29am call to Witham police station, or made his 3.30am telephone call to Julie Mugford...

So, a good starting point would be for everyone to ask themselves the following questions:-

(1) - Did Neville try to contact Witham police station YES / NO?
(2) - Did Neville contact Jeremy YES / NO?
(3) - Did Neville contact the police at 3.26am  YES / NO?
(4) - Did Jeremy try to call Neville back  YES / NO?
(5) - Did Jeremy try to contact Witham police station and get no response  YES / NO?
(6) - Did Jeremy call Julie Mugford  YES / NO?
(7) - Did CA07 get deployed to the scene at 3.35am before Jeremys call to police  YES / NO?
(8) - Did CA05 get deployed to the scene at 3.36am before Jeremy's call to police  YES / NO?
(9) - Did Jeremy contact Chelmsford police at 3.36am  YES / NO?
(10) - Was Jeremy kept on hold for 5 minutes before he could speak to PC West  YES / NO?
(11) - Did PC West speak to a female operator at 3.41am regarding the telephone at whf  YES / NO?
(12) - Did the operator contact police at 3.56am to say phone at fam off hook  YES / NO?

[mike tesko]

There was EVERY requirement. The alleged call from "panicked/terrified" Nevill told him his sister had gone mad and got hold of a gun.

You have hit the nail on the head - Yes, Neville told Jeremy in his lets us say, in his abrupt call to Jeremy at around 3.25am, that his 'sister had got one of Nevilles guns', and when Jeremy eventually got to talk to PC West, this was precisely what Jeremy told PC West at around 3.41am (5 minutes into his 3.36am call):-

[Jane]

You have hit the nail on the head - Yes, Neville told Jeremy in his lets us say, in his abrupt call to Jeremy at around 3.25am, that his 'sister had got one of Nevilles guns', and when Jeremy eventually got to talk to PC West, this was precisely what Jeremy told PC West at around 3.41am (5 minutes into his 3.36am call):-

So you agree that Jeremy's best course of action would have been to call 999. I believe, that had he, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Stephanie]

You have hit the nail on the head - Yes, Neville told Jeremy in his lets us say, in his abrupt call to Jeremy at around 3.25am, that his 'sister had got one of Nevilles guns', and when Jeremy eventually got to talk to PC West, this was precisely what Jeremy told PC West at around 3.41am (5 minutes into his 3.36am call):-

There is no proof Nevill telephoned Jeremy; only Jeremy's claims that he had.

Jeremy's witness statements, police interviews, evidence he gave in court and indeed evidence he has given since, give no further substantiated proof this call occurred

[lookout]

So you agree that Jeremy's best course of action would have been to call 999. I believe, that had he, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm sure that in hindsight he'd wished he'd had called 999 then he wouldn't have carried the can for the murders,but I'm sure again,that he hadn't the slightest idea he would do either.

[Stephanie]

You have hit the nail on the head - Yes, Neville told Jeremy in his lets us say, in his abrupt call to Jeremy at around 3.25am, that his 'sister had got one of Nevilles guns', and when Jeremy eventually got to talk to PC West, this was precisely what Jeremy told PC West at around 3.41am (5 minutes into his 3.36am call):-

Put aside for the moment all original case files that convicted Jeremy and bring forward evidence since his conviction that he received a call from his father. What has Jeremy said about his fathers alleged  phone call since he was convicted? Has he answered any of the questions the police asked him yet?

Or has he avoided this crucial point like the plaque?

[mike tesko]

I am interested in the first 5 minutes of Jeremy's 10 minute call, which everyone seems to be in agreement with, was a call which did take place. There was a 5 minute period at the commencement of Jeremys call to Chelmsford police station where Jeremy was placed on hold!!!

So be it - a 5 minute period when Jeremy was placed on hold, where he was speaking to no-one, and no-one, least of all PC West, was speaking to him. Now, what lies behind this 5 minute period of seemingly inactivity on the part of the police (3.36am / 3.41am opposed to 3.26am / 3.31am)? Well if we choose to say that Jeremy's call had been received at 3.26am, then of course this tells us, that Jeremy did not try to ring Neville back, and that he couldn't therefore have got an engaged tone on each of the two occasions he says he tried to ring him back. It also tells us, that Jeremy could not have tried unsuccessfully to contact Witham police station at around 3.29am. It tells us that his call to Julie Mugford could not have been made at 3.30am, he could not have told Julie at 3.30am, 'There's something wrong at the farm', and she could not have said to him in response, 'go back to bed'. Yet further still, Jeremy could not have phoned PC West at 3.36am, he could not have been placed on hold for a further 5 minutes until 3.41am, and he could not still have been on the phone speaking to PC West at 3.46am. All these features in the evidence would have to be thrown out of the window, and discarded. As a side thought to this, why would Jeremy Bamber seek to introduce such things?

On the other hand, adopting the time when PC West recorded the time of Jeremy's call as 3.36am, what we find is that everything conveniently falls into place, not I would suggest purely by chance, but because it really did happen and unfold in this way.

[mike tesko]

So you agree that Jeremy's best course of action would have been to call 999. I believe, that had he, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I am agreeing that what Jeremy says Neville told him about his sister having one of Nevilles guns, in his call to Jeremy, is precisely what Jeremy eventually got to speak to PC West about 5 minutes into his 3.36am call. The only difference I suggest in what Neville told Jeremy was the mention of his 'sister' having one of his guns, as opposed to the reference of 'Sheila', or 'She has'...

I believe this was argubly the only difference in the interpretation of what Neville actuall might have said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy relayed to PC West 5 minutes into his 3.36am call!!!

[Jane]

I am interested in the first 5 minutes of Jeremy's 10 minute call, which everyone seems to be in agreement with, was a call which did take place. There was a 5 minute period at the commencement of Jeremys call to Chelmsford police station where Jeremy was placed on hold!!!

So be it - a 5 minute period when Jeremy was placed on hold, where he was speaking to no-one, and no-one, least of all PC West, was speaking to him. Now, what lies behind this 5 minute period of seemingly inactivity on the part of the police (3.36am / 3.41am opposed to 3.26am / 3.31am)? Well if we choose to say that Jeremy's call had been received at 3.26am, then of course this tells us, that Jeremy did not try to ring Neville back, and that he couldn't therefore have got an engaged tone on each of the two occasions he says he tried to ring him back. It also tells us, that Jeremy could not have tried unsuccessfully to contact Witham police station at around 3.29am. It tells us that his call to Julie Mugford could not have been made at 3.30am, he could not have told Julie at 3.30am, 'There's something wrong at the farm', and she could not have said to him in response, 'go back to bed'. Yet further still, Jeremy could not have phoned PC West at 3.36am, he could not have been placed on hold for a further 5 minutes until 3.41am, and he could not still have been on the phone speaking to PC West at 3.46am. All these features in the evidence would have to be thrown out of the window, and discarded. As a side thought to this, why would Jeremy Bamber seek to introduce such things?

On the other hand, adopting the time when PC West recorded the time of Jeremy's call as 3.36am, what we find is that everything conveniently falls into place, not I would suggest purely by chance, but because it really did happen and unfold in this way.

No one has ever disputed that Jeremy called the police. The police have it logged. He wouldn't have been put on hold for 5 minutes had he called 999. He made a non urgent call which was treated as such. I think this fudging of times just blurs the issue and probably may not help Jeremy's cause.