Author Topic: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)  (Read 18134 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2017, 09:34:AM »
The official site have got the sequence wrong, the rifle was definitely photographed resting at the bedroom window in photograph number 23, prior to the same rifle being photographed with Sheila's body as in photograph numbers, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, and here is the documentary evidence proving it:-

They've got more than the sequence wrong Mike.

They've got the most basic timings wrong.

The Courts, CCRC and all others who have knowledge of this case will know the CT are putting out erroneous information. Not sure how they expect to be taken seriously if they can't stick to the basic facts.

And not sure if they have chosen to publicise the wrongs times on purpose or whether they have confused themselves?

All they need to do is stick to Jeremy's witness statements and police interviews.

They also need to factor in when Jeremy is meant to have loaded the guns in order to go out and shoot the rabbits.

And why he tells the police about the rape? Why did he offer up a further 20 minutes re rape collection. Did he collect the rape before murdering his family?

If his father did it? What did he mean by this? If his father didn't do it who did it? He (Jeremy) states the rape was collected.



« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:35:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2017, 09:36:AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33705.html#msg33705

This WS from Bamber does not mention Nevill saying "please come over".

It's even more strange that Nevill would only say 8 words to Bamber. After waiting for several minutes for Bamber to wake from 'sleeping like a log'.

Bamber also said he removed the magazine after returning from hunting rabbits. Meaning Sheila had load it.

This WS also backs up some of what Julie said Bamber told her in his 3am phone call - " there is something wrong at the farm".
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:42:AM by Adam »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2017, 09:43:AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33705.html#msg33705

This WS from Bamber does not mention Nevill saying "please come over".

It's even more strange that Nevill would only say 8 words to Bamber. After waiting for several minutes for Bamber to wake from 'sleeping like a log'.

Bamber also said he removed the magazine after returning from hunting rabbits. Meaning Sheila had load it.

There's no doubting Jeremy Bamber slipped up over and over Adam and it is because of these slip ups that the police knew he was guilty and he was rightfully found guilty in a Court of law.

He's conned a lot of people over the years and it's not easy to accept having been conned but his supporters will eventually come to terms with these facts and he will have no where to turn.

And further;

Any forensic expert worth their salt won't get involved with the Bamber case when they realise the CT are putting out erroneous information as basic as Bamber's timings.

As in the SH case, they will be required to use official court documents when putting forward any new argument and they too, if they get that far, will realised they have been conned.##It's not the fault of the campaign team, or anyone else for that matter.

Men like Bamber are easy to like. They are extremely convincing and have the pity plays down to a tee. They know what buttons to push in their victims.

I feel sorry for all those people who have been taken in like they have.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:48:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2017, 09:48:AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33765.html#msg33765

This second WS he says Sheila had never fired the murder weapon. A weapon she had to load the magazine for and then chamber. Before firing shots.

It also says he immediately returned after the rabbits were no longer there. However in his earlier WS he said he was outside for 5 minutes.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:51:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2017, 10:02:AM »
He appeared to come across as nervous during the trial. Poor man

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1103.0;attach=5601;image

The judge observed he spoke slowly. .

I included this link for you Roch as you had referred to it in a previous post.

Caroline,

I haven't read the letter - but I have heard that Ainsley 'marked West's card' so to speak, on account of his performance at trial. 

I personally do not understand why West would want to persist (among all the inner turmoil of the investigation and the external pressures such as media attention) with the stance that he did not make an error.  I'm sorry but I feel this is a decidedly stubborn position for West to take. 

It's an interersting point about why the police did not pass on to JB that RNB had made contact.  However - it is also interesting that the relatives have remained mute or chosen to 'forget' what DCI Thomas Jones explained to them - in order to suppress their concern that Sheila was not responsible.

West comes across as nervous during the trial. It's clear he hadn't rehearsed his evidence, as also pointed out by Ainsley.  Does anyone know how old West was at the time and had he ever given evidence in a court of law before the Bamber trial?
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2017, 10:03:AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33765.html#msg33765

This second WS he says Sheila had never fired the murder weapon. A weapon she had to load the magazine for and then chamber. Before firing shots.

It also says he immediately returned after the rabbits were no longer there. However in his earlier WS he said he was outside for 5 minutes.

Exactly Adam. It's all there!
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2017, 10:12:AM »
I wasn't convinced by Mike's suggestion that the massacre was carried out by a hit man team. Which would have made Bamber innocent.
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2017, 10:14:AM »
I wasn't convinced by Mike's suggestion that the massacre was carried out by a hit man team. Which would have made Bamber innocent.

To be fair to Mike it's clear over the years he's had a lot of his own personal stuff to contend with. There's no wonder he's made mistakes. We all make them. The mind can believe anything, as SH once said to me. ::)
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2017, 10:21:AM »
The campaign team are now promoting Jeremy's 56th Birthday in mid January requesting cards and gifts.

These exercises keep the victims (The CT) focus elsewhere, as opposed to on the case and the factual evidence. I did it myself. Having been brainwashed by Jeremy, they will no doubt be snowed under with all of his demands.




« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 10:23:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline lookout

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2017, 10:53:AM »
He's 2 weeks older than my eldest daughter.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2017, 10:56:AM »
He's 2 weeks older than my eldest daughter.

The difference being, he's a killer your daughter isn't!
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2017, 11:08:AM »
To be fair to Mike it's clear over the years he's had a lot of his own personal stuff to contend with. There's no wonder he's made mistakes. We all make them. The mind can believe anything, as SH once said to me. ::)

Jeremy told Mike many moons ago that he (Mike) was a clever bast*rd. Why doesn't Mike show Jeremy what a clever B he is and go to the press and present them with evidence of Bamber's guilt?

He could put this case to bed once and for all.

“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2017, 11:12:AM »
My timings of the calls are entirely accurate, the witness statement version of events have got the wrong times for one reason or another. You only have to look at the alteration in Julie Mugfords accounts relating to the time of Jeremy's call to her that morning, 3.30am, 3.15am, or earlier. Additionally, one of her house mates placed the time of that early morning call at around 2.00am ...

Ralph definitely phoned Jeremy, Jeremy tried to ring back but kept getting the engaged tone, Ralph phoned the police (3.26am), Jeremy tried to phone Witham police station but got no response (3.29am), then Jeremy phoned Julie Mugford (3.30am), then Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police station (3.36am). Witham police station was manned all night, Bews, Myall and Saxby were on duty there on that first morning of the investigation, but when Jeremy phoned they had gone out on another Job, and did not return to Witham until around 3.34am, at which point they were contacted by Chelmsford police station, and they went straight back out again at 3.36am. Another police vehicle was deployed to the scene (CA05) before Jeremy contacted Chelmsford police station. These are the facts...

In any event, people can play around with the timing of this call, and that call, as much as they like, it still won't alter the now known fact that Sheila was present downstairs in the kitchen since before 7.35am when DCI Terry Gibbons authorised a message to be passed back to the incident room regarding two bodies found in kitchen upon entry, and he requested that a police surgeon, a Coroner's officer, and the divisional DCI be notified of the two bodies police were dealing with by that stage. The corresponding police message log entries at 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 8.10am, tell it as it was inside the farmhouse, two bodies downstairs, three bodies up. Not just a case of two bodies downstairs in the kitchen, but to be more specific, 'the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female'. Furthermore, by 7.45am, staff in the incident room were in possession of information to the effect that the death of the male, and the reported death of the female body in the ktchen, was a murder, and 'a suicide'. They relayed this information to 'DS Davidson' at his home address at precisely 7.45am. So, there it is, police finding two bodies upon entry to the kitchen, the body of one dead male (we have to presumed this being a reference to the body of Ralph Bamber, murdered,), and 'the body of one dead female ( this body could not have been a reference to June Bamber because her death could in no way be described as being a suicide). The first body which police came upon when entering the kitchen was the body of Ralph Bamber, he had been murdered. The second body police reported as being present in the kitchen upon entry, was Sheila (hers was the only purported death by that stage which with there being only one shot to the neck at that stage, could have been reported as a suicide). The fact that she was reported dead at this time, proved incorrect. The pathologist Venezis stated that the shot across the neck (first shot) was not immediately fatal. This is consistent with Sheila still being alive in the kitchen with only a solitary shot to the neck. I have outlined how she got shot in the kitchen during a struggle with PS Woodcock over possession of his gun as he came around the opening edge of the internal door. I have described how police said Sheila had appeared to deliberately pull the muzzle of Woodcocks weapon into her own neck region, and I have laid out the now known facts regarding how that weapon 'discharged' a shot which penetrated Sheila's neck, thought to have killed her! I have drawn attention to the whole scale alteration in PS Woodcocks witness statement which started off being a 15 page statement, but which  due to the editing out of the facts surrounding Woodcocks entry into the kitchen and the shooting of Sheila, was dramatically reduced to 10 pages. At that part of the revised witness statement where Woodcock seeks to describe his entry into the kitchen, a totally different typewriter has been used to create an edited version of the truth. There exists, also, an officers report concerning the shooting incident in the kitchen - this officers report was made out by PS Woodcock because he shot Sheila with his rifle once in the kitchen.  When Woodcock returned his weapon and ammunition to the force Armoury that morning, he was one bullet short in the total he had been issued with. Two bodies then, found in kitchen upon entry, Ralph and Sheila. The former known to be a murder, the latter reported as a suicide. This was all known about and true prior to 7.45am, that morning!!!

Only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am. No prizes for guessing whose bodies these were of?

June Bamber, Daniel and Nicholas Caffell...

The pathologist Knight testified saying that he believed that Sheila could have moved around for quite some time after the first shot. At one stage, he agreed that she could have moved around for as long as half an hour before the second shot was inflicted. Not to be overlooked, was that neither Venezis of Knight knew anything at all about Sheila being downstairs in the kitchen when police eventually entered, and she was reported to be dead, by way of suicide. Of course, if the contents of these key police message logs had not been deliberately withheld by the police and the so called prosecuting authorities, more weight might have been attached to Knights testimony regarding Sheila's ability to still be mobile after receiving the first shot to the neck whilst in the kitchen. However, it must be said, because it is right and proper to do so, that upon being shot in the neck during the aforementioned shooting incident in the kitchen, that Sheila did not run off, or walk about immediately, but instead collapsed onto the kitchen floor. Hence why police reported her presence there in the kitchen at that stage. Police mistakenly believed they had shot and killed her at a time when they had almost all of the other rooms downstairs and upstairs to search and clear. It seems so obvious to me that upon being shot that Sheila collapsed in the kitchen into unconsciousness and shock, or whatever, only to regain her senses, get up onto her feet and hide or rest in the spiral staircase, before making her way into the main bedroom where she collapsed again into unconsciousness. I am not saying that all of this happened in minutes or seconds because it didn't. There was a delay between 8.10am, and 8.44am, during which Sheila made a temporary recovery in the kitchen, travelled up the spiral stair located between kitchen and first floor landing, and the short journey into the main bedroom. I believe this activity on Sheila's part which explains how her body moved from its original location in the kitchen to the main bedroom upstairs fits in with Knights account, regarding the potential for Sheila to have been able to move around once the first shot was inflicted. The only difference between what Knight says was possible, and what I am saying did happen, is that Sheila was not moving around continually for a period of up to half an hour, she was motionless after being shot in the kitchen, regained her senses and recovered sufficiently enough to make her way onto the spiral stair, 'rested there, or hid, or both', maybe she could have sank into a semi unconsciousness again there on that stair, before recovering and making the last effort to get into the main bedroom where she knew she might get access to the rifle she had placed at the first floor window. Now, it doesn't concern me whether she placed the rifle at the box room window, or the main bedroom window, since her attempt to potentially take possession of the rifle, entailed her to have to reach it there via the main bedroom. But, for one reason or another she only made it as far as the bed. The police surgeon Craig did not physically examine Sheila at 8.44am, when he pronounced her dead, he reached that conclusion by a cursory glance at her body. That was another mistake in the investigation, because she wasn't completely dead by that stage, but she may have been very close to death. At this stage she had what appeared to be an entry wound to her throat. What this suggests is that if the pathologist Venezis is right about the impact of the two shots eventually found to her neck, the second one of which would have proved to be instantaneously fatal, is that by 8.44am, that fatal second shot had not yet by that stage been fired!!!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 11:23:AM by mike tesko »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2017, 11:17:AM »
My timings of the calls are entirely accurate, the witness statement version of events have got the wrong times for one reason or another. You only have to look at the alteration in Julie Mugfords accounts relating to the time of Jeremy's call to her that morning, 3.30am, 3.15am, or earlier. Additionally, one of her house mates placed the time of that early morning call at around 2.00am ...

Ralph definitely phoned Jeremy, Jeremy tried to ring back but kept getting the engaged tone, Ralph phoned the police (3.26am), Jeremy tried to phone Witham police station but got no response (3.29am), then Jeremy phoned Julie Mugford (3.30am), then Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police station (3.36am). Witham police station was manned all night, Bews, Myall and Saxby were on duty there on that first morning of the investigation, but when Jeremy phoned they had gone out on another Job, and did not return to Witham until around 3.34am, at which point they were contacted by Chelmsford police station, and they went straight back out again at 3.36am. Another police vehicle CA05 was deployed to the scene (3.team) before Jeremy contacted Chelmsford police station. These are the facts...

In any event, people can play around with the timing of this call, and that call, as much as they like, it still won't alter the now known fact that Sheila was present downstairs in the kitchen since before 7.35am when DCI Terry Gibbons authorised a message to be passed back to the incident room regarding two bodies found in kitchen upon entry, and he requested that a police surgeon, a Coroner's officer, and the divisional DCI be notified of the two bodies police were dealing with by that stage. The corresponding police message log entries at 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 8.10am, tell it as it was inside the farmhouse, two bodies downstairs, three bodies up. Not just a case of two bodies downstairs in the kitchen, but to be more specific, 'the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female'. Furthermore, by 7.45am, staff in the incident room were in possession of information to the effect that the death of the male, and the reported death of the female body in the ktchen, was a murder, and 'a suicide'. They relayed this information to 'DS Davidson' at his home address at precisely 7.45am. So, there it is, police finding two bodies upon entry to the kitchen, the body of one dead male (we have to presumed this being a reference to the body of Ralph Bamber, murdered,), and 'the body of one dead female ( this body could not have been a reference to June Bamber because her death could in no way be described as being a suicide). The first body which police came upon when entering the kitchen was the body of Ralph Bamber, he had been murdered. The second body police reported as being present in the kitchen upon entry, was Sheila (hers was the only purported death by that stage which with there being only one shot to the neck at that stage, could have been reported as a suicide. The fact that she was reported dead at this time, proved incorrect. The pathologist Venezis stated that the shot across the neck (first shot) was not immediately fatal. This is consistent with Sheila still being alive in the kitchen with only a solitary shot to the neck. I have outlined how she got shot in the kitchen during a struggle with PS Woodcock over possession of his gun as he came around the opening edge of the internal door. I have described how police said Sheila had appeared to deliberately pull the muzzle of Woodcocks weapon into her own neck region, and I have laid out the now known facts regarding how that weapon 'discharged' a shot which penetrated Sheila's neck, thought to have killed her! I have drawn attention to the whole scale alteration in PS Woodcocks witness statement which started off being a 15 page statement, but which  due to the editing out of the facts surrounding Woodcocks entry into the kitchen and the shooting of Sheila, was dramatically reduced to 10 pages. At that part of the revised witness statement where Woodcock seeks to describe his entry into the kitchen, a totally different typewriter has been used to create an edited version of the truth. There exists, also, an officers report concerning the shooting incident in the kitchen - this officers report was made out by PS Woodcock because he shot Sheila with his rifle once in the kitchen.  When Woodcock returned his weapon and ammunition Orion to the force Armoury that morning, he was one bullet short in the total he had been issued with. Two bodies then, found in kitchen upon entry, Ralph and Sheila. The former known to be a murder, the latter reported as a suicide. This was all known about and true prior to 7.45am, that morning!!!

Only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am. No prizes for guessing whose bodies these were of?

June Bamber, Daniel and Nicholas Caffell...

The pathologist Knight testified saying that he believed that Sheila could have moved around for quite some time after the first shot. At one stage, he agreed that she could have moved around for as long as half an hour before the second shot was inflicted. Not to be overlooked, was that neither Venezis of Knight knew anything at all about Sheila being downstairs in the kitchen when police eventually entered, and she was reported to be dead, by way of suicide. Of course, if the contents of these key police message logs had not been deliberately withheld by the police and the so called prosecuting authorities, more weight might have been attached to Knights testimony regarding Sheila's ability to still be mobile after receiving the first shot to the neck whilst in the kitchen. However, it must be said, because it is right and proper to do so, that upon being shot in the neck during the aforementioned shooting incident in the kitchen, that Sheila did not run off, or walk about immediately, but instead collapsed onto the kitchen floor. Hence why police reported her presence there in the kitchen at that stage. Police mistakenly believed they had shot and killed her at a time when they had almost all of the other rooms downstairs and upstairs to search and clear. It seems so obvious to me that upon being shot that Sheila collapsed in the kitchen into unconsciousness and shock, or whatever, only to regain her senses, get up onto her feet and hide or rest in the spiral staircase, before making her way into the main bedroom where she collapsed again into unconsciousness. I am not saying that all of this happened in minutes or seconds because it didn't. There was a delay between 8.10am, and 8.44am, during which Sheila made a temporary recovery in the kitchen, travelled up the spiral stair located between kitchen and first floor landing, and the short journey into the main bedroom. I believe this activity on Sheila's part which explains how her body moved from its original location in the kitchen to the main bedroom upstairs fits in with Knights account, regarding the potential for Sheila to have been able to move around once the first shot was inflicted. The only difference between what Knight says was possible, and what I am saying did happen, is that Sheila was not moving around continually for a period of up to half an hour, she was motionless after being shot in the kitchen, regained her senses and recovered sufficiently enough to make her way onto the spiral stair, 'rested there, or hid, or both', maybe she could have sank into a semi unconsciousness again there on that stair, before recovering and making the last effort to get into the main bedroom where she knew she might get access to the rifle she had placed at the first floor window. Now, it doesn't concern me whether she placed the rifle at the box room window, or the main bedroom window, since her attempt to potentially take possession of the rifle, entailed her to have to reach it there via the main bedroom. But, for one reason or another she only made it as far as the bed. The police surgeon Craig did not physically examine Sheila at 8.44am, when he pronounced her dead, he reached that conclusion by a cursory glance at her body. That was another mistake in the investigation, because she wasn't completed dead by that stage, but she may have been very close to death. At this stage she had what appeared to be an entry wound to her throat. What this suggests is that if the pathologist Venezis is right about the impact of the two shots eventually found to her neck, the second one of which would have proved to be instantaneously fatal, is that by 8.44am, that fatal second shot had not yet by that stage been fired!!!

Mike I'm unsure why you are digging your heals in? You know the timings you have posted above are wrong.

Plus as I've already stated; if Julie was lying, which you say she was, why are you relying on her timings and not Jeremy's?

You either believe her to be a liar or she was telling the truth. You can't pick and choose what evidence of hers you wish to use to support your argument.

Mike you have an opportunity to put this case to bed once and for all. What's stopping you?
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Offline lookout

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2017, 11:20:AM »
Jeremy told Mike many moons ago that he (Mike) was a clever bast*rd. Why doesn't Mike show Jeremy what a clever B he is and go to the press and present them with evidence of Bamber's guilt?

He could put this case to bed once and for all.





You'd just like that,wouldn't you ?