Author Topic: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)  (Read 18114 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2017, 01:10:AM »
The one on the forum isn't as it's likely just a copy. I don't see him coming forward complaining it's false?

He appeared to come across as nervous during the trial. Poor man

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1103.0;attach=5601;image

The judge observed he spoke slowly. .
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 01:14:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2017, 01:22:AM »
.

07 * 7 Aug 03:15 Approx - Nevill telephones his son, Jeremy, stating
his sister Sheila had "gone crazy" and “had the gun." He also said
“Please come over.” The phone then went dead. It had either been
unplugged or left off the hook.

I believe it to have been 3.24 / 3.25am, when Ralph Bamber made the all important telephone call to Jeremy...The reason the line appeared to go dead, is because Ralph Bamber must have depressed the cradle, and telephoned the police, hence why Jeremy kept getting the engaged tone whilst trying unsuccessfully to reestablish contact with Ralph...

08 * 03:20 Approx - Jeremy then makes several attempts to call
Nevill back using 'redial' and got the engaged tone. Unbeknown to
Jeremy this was because Nevill had realised that he needed police
assistance with Sheila.

09 * 03:20 - Nevill telephones police stating that his daughter, Sheila,
had "got hold” of one of his guns. The call is noted and titled
"daughter gone berserk." Nevill referred to Sheila's age as 26 years.

The timing of Ralph Bambers call was made at 3.26am, and explains why Jeremy kept getting a constant engaged tone...

10 * 03:26 - PC West telephones Malcolm Bonnett “On the internal
police line” to relay the call he has just received from Nevill
Bamber.

Jeremy attempts to contact Witham police station but gets no response...

11 * 03:30 Approx - PC Saxby receives a radio message, stating he
should attend at White House Farm.

Jeremy calls Julie Mugford to inform her that there's something wrong at the farm. She tells Jeremy to go back to bed...

12 * 03:35 - Police vehicle CA7 is dispatched to WHF.

Jeremy contacts Chelmsford police station...

13 * 03:36 - PC West told DCI Dickinson in November 1986, that he
called Malcolm Bonnett (discussing a call from Jeremy to Police
about the WHF incident) at this time. However, in his 16th
September statement he claims to have not actually received
Jeremy Bamber’s call until 3:36. PC West also claimed in his 9th
of September statement that Jeremy called him at 3:26. Jeremy's
call to the police refers to Sheila's age at 27 - which was accurate.

14 * 03:36 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell are dispatched in police
vehicle CA5.

16 * 03:36 - Police vehicle CA05 is dispatched to WHF, according
to PC West’s Log.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2017, 01:28:AM »


I believe it was West who got the engaged tone
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2017, 01:40:AM »

Caroline has already pointed this out Mike but Jeremy states in his first WS the alleged all important telephone call to Jeremy from Neville was 3.10am

Jeremy then states he phoned Julie at 3.25am

So it seems he phoned Julie before phoning the police, even though when he did phone the police he told them he thought his Dad sounded terrified.

I cannot find any reference to Jeremy having stated he phoned the farmhouse and got the engaged tone - it seems this is what PC West said.

Jeremy tells West he couldn't get through when he tried a second time. I cannot find any reference to Jeremy having tried the farmhouse anymore than once after the so called all important call from his Dad
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 01:42:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2017, 01:45:AM »

Mike posts: The timing of Ralph Bambers call was made at 3.26am, and explains why Jeremy kept getting a constant engaged tone...

The timing of RB's call as stated by Jeremy was 3.10am. Jeremy does not say he got an engaged tone, nor does he say he phoned the farmhouse more than once; so it wouldn't have been a constant engaged tone.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:27:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2017, 02:04:AM »
Quite a few mistakes in just the first part!

01 * 6 Aug 18:00-18:39 Approx - Jeremy finishes work at White
House Farm where there is a family meal ongoing. A discussion is taking place
between June, Nevill and Sheila about what help Sheila needs.
The use of fostering again is a central theme.

The above is incorrect and does not match his first statement (the one is covets so much). According to his statement, he went to back to the farm house between 20:00 and 21:00. He then went back to the field (after the rabbit incident) somewhere between 21:00 and 21:30. He then states that he returned to the house around 21:45 (first statement)

02 * 21:30 - Jeremy leaves WHF and returns to his nearby
Goldhanger home, about three miles away.

The above is incorrect as according to him, he left WHF around 21:45

03 * 21:30 - Back at WHF Barbara Wilson, Farm Secretary,
telephones and speaks to Nevill Bamber; claiming he was "short"
with her. She was left with the impression her call had interrupted
an argument.

04 * 21:50-22:00 - Jeremy makes a telephone call to Julie at her home.
Unbeknown to Jeremy, Julie has been smoking marijuana and she
is drowsy.

This had to be 22:00 or later


05 * 22:00 - Pamela Boutflour, June’s sister, telephones White House
Farm and speaks to both June and Sheila. Pam stated that Sheila
just gave “yes and no” replies to her questions and abruptly handed
the phone back to June. June explained to Pam that she was “very
worried about Sheila and that she would like me to see her and
form an opinion about her health.” From the discussion with June,
Pam reached the conclusion that Sheila was “acting oddly”

06 * 23:00 Approx - Having watched television, Jeremy goes to bed.

07 * 7 Aug 03:15 Approx - Nevill telephones his son, Jeremy, stating
his sister Sheila had "gone crazy" and “had the gun." He also said
“Please come over.” The phone then went dead. It had either been
unplugged or left off the hook.

Jeremy's time is 03:10 not 03:15

08 * 03:20 Approx - Jeremy then makes several attempts to call
Nevill back using 'redial' and got the engaged tone. Unbeknown to
Jeremy this was because Nevill had realised that he needed police
assistance with Sheila.

He would have to have called Nevill back before 03:20 if he Nevill called at 03:10

09 * 03:20 - Nevill telephones police stating that his daughter, Sheila,
had "got hold” of one of his guns. The call is noted and titled
"daughter gone berserk." Nevill referred to Sheila's age as 26 years.

Who took Nevill's call? West? This means West is a liar from the off - hardly likely

10 * 03:26 - PC West telephones Malcolm Bonnett “On the internal
police line” to relay the call he has just received from Nevill
Bamber.

He did indeed call Bonnett, but not to relay Nevill's call, he relayed Jeremy's call. Jeremy was unsure about both Sheila's age and her married name. Both logs mention that her name is 'Bamber' and there is a discrepancy over her age - these points were things that Jeremy didn't know so it's not surprising that there is confusion and it's hardly likely that Nevill wouldn't know her married name either. One more point, West log coantins Nevill's age, the log Bonnett wrote does not because Bonnett asked Jeremy this question after f= he finished talking to Bonnett.

11 * 03:30 Approx - PC Saxby receives a radio message, stating he
should attend at White House Farm.



12 * 03:35 - Police vehicle CA7 is dispatched to WHF.

13 * 03:36 - PC West told DCI Dickinson in November 1986, that he
called Malcolm Bonnett (discussing a call from Jeremy to Police
about the WHF incident) at this time. However, in his 16th
September statement he claims to have not actually received
Jeremy Bamber’s call until 3:36. PC West also claimed in his 9th
of September statement that Jeremy called him at 3:26. Jeremy's
call to the police refers to Sheila's age at 27 - which was accurate.

West got the times wrong and again, it was Jeremy who couldn't remember Sheila's age (26 or 27).

14 * 03:36 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell are dispatched in police
vehicle CA5.

16 * 03:36 - Police vehicle CA05 is dispatched to WHF, according
to PC West’s Log.

17 * 03:38 - Police suggest to Jeremy he should meet them at WHF
and, before doing so, he telephones Julie. The time of this call is
strongly contested by six different people. The time of the call
gets earlier in each witness statement made by prosecution
witnesses, some claimed as early as 2:59. Under cross-examination
most of the witnesses said the call could well have been closer to
3:30. The variance moots the point and suggests the possibility that
other house members might have smoked marijuana with Julie that
evening.

Jeremy said he called Julie at 03:25 so the above it picked out of the air and it was West who told him to meet the police so it was before 03:38.

18 * 03:42 - Jeremy leaves his cottage and makes his way to White
House Farm.

19 * 03:48 - Vehicle CA07 arrives at the end of Pages Lane at the
junction with Tollesbury Road. Jeremy then arrives at the same
location and is, from this time onward, in the company of police.

20 * 03:49 - Officers Bews and Myall along with Jeremy exit their
cars at the junction of Tollesbury Road and have a short discussion,
after which a decision is made by police to drive further down the
lane and park by the farm cottages.

21 * 03:50 - PC Batchelor is attributed as writing a log at the scene
from 03:50 onwards but he didn’t arrive at the scene until 04:25am.

22 * 03:55 - Officers Bews, Myall and Jeremy begin a 'perimeter
check' of the farmhouse, during which PC Myall indicates he can
see "movement" in an upstairs window. A Tactical Firearms Unit
(TFU) is contacted. The Major Incident Report at the scene goes
as far as to list what was seen as an 'Unidentified male.' Bews
makes a situation report to HQ over the radio.

23 * 04:00 - PC Saxby told the Dickinson Enquiry that he started
keeping a log at this time. In addition, he also states that he started
another, separate log which detailed who arrived and who left
White House Farm. This log has never been disclosed.

Several people kept logs which is why the whole thing got confusing

24 * 04:09 - Police report at this time that there are "no signs of life"
within the house - keep in mind that at this time that police noted:
"...all lights on in premises." This report was made as a result of PS
Bews making a second recce of the house. He told the Dickinson
Enquiry that he may have gone back a third time.

25 * 04:22 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell arrive at the Farm in car
CA5.

26 * 04:23 - PC Batchelor and PC Lay arrive at the Farm in car CA6.

27 * 04:58 - The Firearms Unit (TFU) arrives at WHF along with a
dog unit; police vehicles QK26, QZO5, and QK50. The vehicles
contained: QK26 – PC Adams and 5 TFU Officers QK50 –
PC Mackintosh - QK05 – Dog Unit-PC Mercer.

28 * 05:25 - The Firearms team are recorded as being "in conversation
with a person from inside the farm." Jeremy is asked at this time
what Sheila would like to talk about as police arranged to engage
her in conversation.
They clearly attempted to make contact and the next sentence shows that there was no two way conversation at all 'met with no response'

29 * 05:29 - Police logs note that a "challenge to persons inside the
house [was] met with no response."

30 05:42 - A relief radio operator, PC Nicholas Milbank, takes over
from Malcolm Bonnett. PC Milbank didn’t make a statement in
1985 and it wasn’t until he was interviewed on 18.08.2002. that his
identity was revealed to the Defence. He has never disclosed what
he heard from inside White House Farm over the open telephone
line. The open line was also being recorded yet neither this recording
nor PC Milbank’s testimony is made known to the Jury and
has never been disclosed to the Defence

Because he didn't hear anything


31 * 05:45 - PC West records that GPO (Post Office) are asked to
check the phone line at White House Farm. By 1985 this would
have actually been tasked to British Telecom.

GPO/BT heard nothing either

32 * 05:47 - PC West is informed that the "phone at the scene [is]
engaged." However more than two hours prior at 03.42, West had
been told: "phone had been left off the hook."

33 * 05:50 - PC Myall starts a log but it has been disclosed and
inaccurately attributed to PC Saxby. Myall told Dickinson that he
drove car CA7 into the farmyard and began Log 12.

34 * 06:00 - Paramedics called. Ambulance 051 and 2 crew are
dispatched.

35 * 06:09 - Emergency service operators, as well as GPO/BT
operators now monitor the telephone line to White House Farm.
Jean Rowe a BT operator continues to monitor the phone
intermittently. This was being recorded onto tape but the tapes
have never been disclosed.

Had she hear anything of worth, she's have said so or is this someone else who helped frame an innocent man? For what purpose?

36 * 06:19 - PC Chaplin and PC Dixon arrive at White House Farm
in car CG32.

37 * 06:20 - Further paramedics called to the scene. Ambulance 070
and 2 crew are dispatched.

38 * 06:42 - PC Hall and PC Manners arrive at the scene in van QK23.
Also Inspector Montgomery and five TFU officers.

39 * 06:44 - Chief Inspector Clark arrives in car CG/10.

40 * 06:45 - APS Manners states that PC Collins looked into the
kitchen through the window before they broke into the house and
“reported seeing what he thought was the body of a female just
inside the kitchen door,” but apparently Nevill Bamber was found
by the Aga cooker.

41 * 07:00 - Curtains in Master Bedroom recorded as Closed. Lights
are recorded as being off in the master bedroom.

42 * 07:00 approx. - Ch. /Insp. Gibbons and PC Panting arrive at the
scene.

43 * 07:02 - A/PS Moule and five more TFU Officers arrive at the
scene in transit vehicle QK24. Thirty-two Police Officers and four
paramedics are already at the scene.

44 * 07:10 Approx - PC Brown sees a rifle in the window of the 'box'
room, adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:00am and
9:00am.

Have we got his statement?

45 * 07:15 - Curtains in the Master Bedroom now recorded as open,
with the light turned on.

46 * 07:15 - CSI Harris and PC Reed arrive at the Farm in car CA02.

47 * 07:20 - Further Paramedics called to the scene (approximate).

48 * 07:30 - Paramedics called to relieve one of the earlier crews. In
all 9 arrive at the scene.

49 * 07:30 - WPC Jeapes sees a rifle in the window of the 'box' room,
adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:30am and 9:00am. She
is located independently from PC Brown. There are no photographs
taken of this room from inside or outside the house.

No she doesn't - she saw something that 'appeared' to be a rifle

In his second statement he says he returned to the house on foot at 9.45pm

He says he then went into the kitchen and spoke to his father for about 5 minutes when they arranged to pick up the last load of rape. He then says he returned home.

He then states that this load did get picked up (rape) and if his father did it it would have taken about 20 minutes

Might be worth reading Bridget's old posts on the rape; though they may have been posted on another forum
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2017, 02:07:AM »
In his second statement he says he returned to the house on foot at 9.45pm

He says he then went into the kitchen and spoke to his father for about 5 minutes when they arranged to pick up the last load of rape. He then says he returned home.

He then states that this load did get picked up (rape) and if his father did it it would have taken about 20 minutes


Another slip up
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2017, 02:11:AM »
Then later in his 2nd statement he adds further differing details http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33765.html#msg33765
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:24:AM by Stephanie »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2017, 02:12:AM »

45 * 07:15 - Curtains in the Master Bedroom now recorded as open,
with the light turned on.

46 * 07:15 - CSI Harris and PC Reed arrive at the Farm in car CA02.

47 * 07:20 - Further Paramedics called to the scene (approximate).

48 * 07:30 - Paramedics called to relieve one of the earlier crews. In
all 9 arrive at the scene.

a rifle was seen at a first floor window prior to the original six man raid team approached the farmhouse. The only rifle found upstairs was the family owned anshuzt model 525 rifle which was eventually photographed resting against the main bedroom window as in photograph number 23, prior to several other photographs showing the said rifle with Sheila Caffells body, as per photographs, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33. These photographs were not all taken by PC Bird, at least one (25) was taken by a 'DC 'Oakey (SOCO), whose name has mysteriously been drafted out of the investigation...

49 * 07:30 - WPC Jeapes sees a rifle in the window of the 'box' room,
adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:30am and 9:00am. She
is located independently from PC Brown. There are no photographs
taken of this room from inside or outside the house.

She reports the sighting of this rifle there at a first floor window at around the same time as PC Brown reports seeing the same rifle at the window. I believe these sightings to have occurred at around 7.15am, and were the signal for police to go and enter the farmhouse with a view to bringing the seige to a halt...

50 * 07:34 - Police, using “stealth” tactics, enter the farmhouse by
smashing down a door with a sledgehammer. PC Rozga states: "I
looked just around the door and saw [an] overturned chair [and]
against the wall was the body of a male." Two different versions
of his statement exist to omit the re-positioning of Nevill Bamber’s
body.

Key evidence is omitted here, since upon entry to the farmhouse at around 7.30am, the raid party got delayed in entering the kitchen. There was something very heavy on the kitchen side of the internal doorway, which took some considerable time to create a gap sufficient enough to allow PS Woodcock to squeeze through at peril of being unable to train the barrel of his rifle upon any target which challenged him as he came around the opening edge of the internal door into the kitchen itself. PS Woodcock altered page contents in his witness statement with the purpose of trying to conceal the presence of Sheila in the kitchen who got shot during a struggle with Woodcock over possession of his weapon. Woodcocks entry into the kitchen caused Ralph Bambers body which had been sitting in a wooden chair behind the internal door, to topple forward sending Ralph's body crashing forward and ending up balancing precariously on another chair in front, with his head resting in a metal coal bucket...

51 * 07:34 - Having entered the house via the kitchen, police radio
through the discovery of one dead male and one dead female.
These would have been the bodies of Sheila and Nevill. The raid
team wore open microphones and were recorded. The tapes or
transcripts have never been disclosed.

At this stage, there was clearly no mix up regarding the identity of one body, for example, Ralph's body mistaken as Sheila's, or vice versa. Since the female body is mentioned after mention of the discovery of a male body, more importantly, with the use of the word 'and'..

52 * 07:36 - Reports made of “movement and voices” being heard by
police over the open telephone line as police broke in.

these movements and voices are believed to have included the struggle between Woodcock and Sheila. Sheila was shot across the throat during this struggle with Woodcock in the kitchen, and this incident was subject of an officers report on the shooting incident in the kitchen, aforementioned...

53 * 07:37 - One of the first raid officers into the house, PC Hall says,
“I immediately heard a noise upstairs and began to challenge up the
stairs I was covering, I was calling to Sheila Bamber to make her
whereabouts known to me.” At the 2002 Appeal the same officer
stated that the raid team operated using stealth tactics in silence
using hand signals. PC Rozga added: "I then heard someone from
the kitchen area warning another person not to tread in blood."

The anxiety expressed here only became apparent, after 8.10am, when to their dismay police realised that the original shot had not killed Sheila. Her body was missing from the kitchen, and police were concerned she might arm herself with a loaded weapon and shoot at them...

54 * 07:37 - After other officers entered the house the scene would
appear to have been altered because Nevill was reported to have
been near the Aga cooker seated precariously on the back of an
overturned chair.

55 * 07.38 - Another Essex Police communication, from Inspector
Norman, notes the discovery of "one dead male and one dead
female... on entry to premises." The two bodies could only have
been those of Nevill and Sheila given it is undisputed that June
and the twins were found upstairs.

56 * 07:47 - The police give an order for the recording of the open
telephone line at White House Farm - being monitored by
emergency services - to be halted.

57 * 07:48 - Police request a surgeon to attend the scene to examine
two bodies, suggesting again that two bodies (Sheila and Nevill)
were found downstairs.

58 * 07:55 - Police finally ‘officially’ search the upstairs of WHF.
The ambulance Commander, Mr Nottage arrived at the scene.

59 * 08:00 - After 8:00am, two firearms officers say in statements
ammunition and bandoliers were on the staircase leading from the
kitchen to the box room. Neither this room, the staircase, the
ammunition or bandoliers are photographed.

two bodies downstairs, three upstairs...

60 * 08:10 - After a “thorough” search of the house, Police record
the discovery of “three further bodies” These would have been the
bodies of June, Nicholas and Daniel. The finding of "three further
bodies" supports the argument that two bodies (Nevill and Sheila)
were found downstairs, as it is undisputed that five persons in total
had died.

Sheila goes missing from the kitchen!!!

Body count downstairs / upstairs has to be revised from two down, three up, into one down, four up...


61 * 08:10 approx. - PC Manners records that he spent considerable
time with the body of June Bamber, who was found with her feet
to the door. Curiously, the crime scene photos picture her with her
head against the door.

Between 9 and 10am, police practiced 'informatives'. This involved officers trying to determine how victims had been shot and killed. Bodies were moved, and the only rifle anywhere upstairs on the first floor was brought to Sheila's body, and her death scene was staged eventually to present her death as a suicide, but by the time this was done, Sheila had received a second shot, this time with use of the rifle from the window...

« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:23:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2017, 02:55:AM »
In 1989, Jeremy hadn't got a clue about the timings of any of these phone calls. If the truth be known he didn't know these times  of these calls, I should know because it was me who had to set about pinpointing the times of various calls based upon information recorded in different documents in his case file. Documents which Jeremy had not got or for that matter ever seen. I believe that Jeremy just guessed the time when he said this, that and the other. There was no reason for Jeremy to have to remember the time of his dad's call, all that mattered was that Jeremy tried to respond to his dad once the line went dead, and he did that first of all by trying to ring his dad back, but he got a constant engaged tone. Jeremy told me he tried to ring his dad back a couple of times, but that on each occasion he got an engaged tone. This interested me, chiefly because during his trial the prosecution relied upon the premise, (a) that if the line had gone dead, as claimed by Jeremy, he would not have been able to call his father back because the line would have remained open, and (b) he wouldn't have been able to make the call to his then girlfriend Julie Mugford, because the line between the farmhouse and his cottage would have remained inextricably linked together. However, what I was able to discover was that Ralphs call to Jeremy was made in the capacity of 'the caller', and Jeremy, 'the recipient'. All that would be required, would be for the caller to depress the cradle of the phone, and the line between Ralph and the recipient (Jeremy) would be cancelled, thus enabling Ralph to make another call, this time to the police (3.26am). Once this happened, Jeremy was free to call back to the farmhouse (as the caller), but he kept getting an engaged tone. This can only have been because his dad was speaking to the police. Jeremy didn't have a clue about the timings of calls, here, there, and everywhere, and neither did his counsel - this was because Essex police withheld vital documentation from the defence which would have enabled the defence to present a constructive argument and providing some truth to what Jeremy has said happenned all along. He did receive a very brief telephone call from his dad, which got cut short, and he did try to reestablish contact by trying to phone his dad back, but as he said, he kept getting an engaged tone. This was because at the time Jeremy was trying to reach his father, his father was already contacting the police himself. You dont really need to know timings of calls, but it helps if you know the exact sequence these calls were made in. I think the prosecutions claim that Jeremy wouldn't be able to make a call, either back to his dad, or to Julie Mugford, or to the police, has been exposed as a mistruth. He could have, and he did!!!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:59:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2017, 03:01:AM »
In 1989, Jeremy hadn't got a clue about the timings of any of these phone calls. If the truth be known he didn't know these times  of these calls, I should know because it was me who had to set about pinpointing the times of various calls based upon information recorded in different documents in his case file. Documents which Jeremy had not got or for that matter ever seen. I believe that Jeremy just guessed the time when he said this, that and the other. There was no reason for Jeremy to have to remember the time of his dad's call, all that mattered was that Jeremy tried to respond to his dad once the line went dead, and he did that first of all by trying to ring his dad back, but he got a constant engaged tone. Jeremy told me he tried to ring his dad back a couple of times, but that on each occasion he got an engaged tone. This interested me, chiefly because during his trial the prosecution relied upon the premise, (a) that if the line had gone dead, as claimed by Jeremy, he would not have been able to call his father back because the line would have remained open, and (b) he wouldn't have been able to make the call to his then girlfriend Julie Mugford, because the line between the farmhouse and his cottage would have remained inextricably linked together. However, what I was able to discover was that Ralphs call to Jeremy was made in the capacity of 'the caller', and Jeremy, 'the recipient'. All that would be required, would be for the caller to depress the cradle of the phone, and the line between Ralph and the recipient (Jeremy) would be cancelled, thus enabling Ralph to make another call, this time to the police (3.26am). Once this happened, Jeremy was free to call back to the farmhouse (as the caller), but he kept getting an engaged tone. This can only have been because his dad was speaking to the police. Jeremy didn't have a clue about the timings of calls, here, there, and everywhere, and neither did his counsel - this was because Essex police withheld vital documentation from the defence which would have enabled the defence to present a constructive argument and providing some truth to what Jeremy has said happenned all along. He did receive a very brief telephone call from his dad, which got cut short, and he did try to reestablish contact by trying to phone his dad back, but as he said, he kept getting an engaged tone. This was because at the time Jeremy was trying to reach his father, his father was already contacting the police himself. You dont really need to know timings of calls, but it helps if you know the exact sequence these calls were made in. I think the prosecutions claim that Jeremy wouldn't be able to make a call, either back to his dad, or to Julie Mugford, or to the police, has been exposed as a mistruth. He could have, and he did!!!

But et he maintained his first statement was accurate.
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2017, 03:02:AM »
Once you get to know the actual times of telephone calls using official information contained in the case file, for example, Ralph's call to police at 3.26am, and Jeremy's call to police at 3.36am, it becomes a piece of cake marrying the sequence of events together, fully explained!!!
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2017, 03:18:AM »
But et he maintained his first statement was accurate.

Jeremy didn't make his own witness statement, 'DC Clark' wrote it out, he probably  paraphrased  what Jeremy said in response to something he'd been asked. 'It was after 3.10am', must have been recorded as, 'at 3.10am', this sort of thing happens all the time. And another thing, if it had been Jeremy who called police at 3.25am, why did it take until 3.35am before any copper was deployed to the scene? You see, Jeremy was told to go to the farmhouse to meet the police who had already been deployed to the incident, but if his call had been at 3.26am, the police had not been deployed to the scene, had they?  Yet, with 3.36am being the accurate timing of Jeremy's call to the police, the police had already been deployed to the incident (3.35am) a minute beforehand. Truth is universal, and it doesn't make sense for Jeremy to have received the call from his dad at 3.10am, and for him to wait 16 minutes before he decides to call police, using words which were spoken as if Jeremy was his dad? Whereas, the content of the 3.36am call fit him to a tee, and is a record of what he says happened, in the way he told it to the police as to how it had happenned...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2017, 09:10:AM »
Jeremy didn't make his own witness statement, 'DC Clark' wrote it out, he probably  paraphrased  what Jeremy said in response to something he'd been asked. 'It was after 3.10am', must have been recorded as, 'at 3.10am', this sort of thing happens all the time. And another thing, if it had been Jeremy who called police at 3.25am, why did it take until 3.35am before any copper was deployed to the scene? You see, Jeremy was told to go to the farmhouse to meet the police who had already been deployed to the incident, but if his call had been at 3.26am, the police had not been deployed to the scene, had they?  Yet, with 3.36am being the accurate timing of Jeremy's call to the police, the police had already been deployed to the incident (3.35am) a minute beforehand. Truth is universal, and it doesn't make sense for Jeremy to have received the call from his dad at 3.10am, and for him to wait 16 minutes before he decides to call police, using words which were spoken as if Jeremy was his dad? Whereas, the content of the 3.36am call fit him to a tee, and is a record of what he says happened, in the way he told it to the police as to how it had happenned...

Mike between Jeremy's witness statements and police intereviews it's clear:

He says he received call from his Dad @ 3.10am

He then states he phoned Julie at 3.25am

The police record Jeremy phoning then at 3.26am

PC West states he put Jeremy on hold for about 3 minutes whilst he phoned Witham


Your timings are way out Mike.

The other question is why did Jeremy offer up another 20 minutes (Re Rape collection) to the police but is referring to his Dad?

He states: If his Father collected it (Words to that effect) What does he mean?

And why does Jeremy give different timings regarding when he left the farmhouse in each statement?
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2017, 09:19:AM »
Jeremy didn't make his own witness statement, 'DC Clark' wrote it out, he probably  paraphrased  what Jeremy said in response to something he'd been asked. 'It was after 3.10am', must have been recorded as, 'at 3.10am', this sort of thing happens all the time. And another thing, if it had been Jeremy who called police at 3.25am, why did it take until 3.35am before any copper was deployed to the scene? You see, Jeremy was told to go to the farmhouse to meet the police who had already been deployed to the incident, but if his call had been at 3.26am, the police had not been deployed to the scene, had they?  Yet, with 3.36am being the accurate timing of Jeremy's call to the police, the police had already been deployed to the incident (3.35am) a minute beforehand. Truth is universal, and it doesn't make sense for Jeremy to have received the call from his dad at 3.10am, and for him to wait 16 minutes before he decides to call police, using words which were spoken as if Jeremy was his dad? Whereas, the content of the 3.36am call fit him to a tee, and is a record of what he says happened, in the way he told it to the police as to how it had happenned...

It's blatantly obvious Jeremy never received a call from his Dad Mike. As you say, why would he wait 16 minutes before phoning the police? And why phone Julie before phoning the police?

Don't forget in between receiving an alleged call from his Dad and phoning Chelmsford, he also says he phoned Witham but couldn't get through.

And as pointed out by a local (Relative) the villagers knew Witham was closed between 2.00 - 4.00am.

There are too many slip ups in Jeremy's witness statements and police interviews. No one coerced Jeremy during the interviews. He had his solicitor with him. He only answered questions he wanted to answer and remained firm his first witness statement was correct.

Further if Jeremy did think like you think Mike, he's had 32 years to say so. He never has. He's always stuck to his first statement!

Further, if you believe Julie lied then you can't rely on her timings. It's Jeremy's or Julies.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:26:AM by Stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"