Author Topic: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)  (Read 18133 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2017, 09:57:PM »
Fantasy land.

Between us we could put together quite an accurate timeline from this.



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Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2017, 09:57:PM »
A shot is a shot. It is not a noise.

I think a police officer would know the difference. The most likely solution is that the dog was moving around and Hall was spooked.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2017, 09:58:PM »
Between us we could put together quite an accurate timeline from this.

Just take out the rubbish that the CT have added.
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2017, 10:02:PM »
A lot of the times are not important.

I thought Bamber's first call to Julie was longer than they state.

However point 7 is wrong. Bamber's own WS states Nevill's call was at 3.10am. Nevill saying 11 words and then Bamber phoning him back and just getting the dialling tone wouldn't take 10 minutes.
.
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Offline Roch

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2017, 10:08:PM »
Point 22 seems to be an amalgamation of events.  I'd like to have seen some more clarity there. 

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2017, 10:09:PM »
Point 22 seems to be an amalgamation of events.  I'd like to have seen some more clarity there.

Quite a lot has been amalgamated  ;D
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2017, 10:15:PM »
None of the times are really in dispute. Of the calls that everyone knows took place.

Bamber intially said he called Julie first. No one said his call to Julie was after 3.30am.

All guliters and some supporters say Nevill did not call the 5th furthest away police station.

The police say Bamber called them at 3.26am. Bamber will always be tenacious and ambitious with the one digit difference from the logs. Claiming Nevill called the police.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 10:23:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2017, 10:15:PM »
Quite a few mistakes in just the first part!

01 * 6 Aug 18:00-18:39 Approx - Jeremy finishes work at White
House Farm where there is a family meal ongoing. A discussion is taking place
between June, Nevill and Sheila about what help Sheila needs.
The use of fostering again is a central theme.

The above is incorrect and does not match his first statement (the one is covets so much). According to his statement, he went to back to the farm house between 20:00 and 21:00. He then went back to the field (after the rabbit incident) somewhere between 21:00 and 21:30. He then states that he returned to the house around 21:45 (first statement)

02 * 21:30 - Jeremy leaves WHF and returns to his nearby
Goldhanger home, about three miles away.

The above is incorrect as according to him, he left WHF around 21:45

03 * 21:30 - Back at WHF Barbara Wilson, Farm Secretary,
telephones and speaks to Nevill Bamber; claiming he was "short"
with her. She was left with the impression her call had interrupted
an argument.

04 * 21:50-22:00 - Jeremy makes a telephone call to Julie at her home.
Unbeknown to Jeremy, Julie has been smoking marijuana and she
is drowsy.

This had to be 22:00 or later


05 * 22:00 - Pamela Boutflour, June’s sister, telephones White House
Farm and speaks to both June and Sheila. Pam stated that Sheila
just gave “yes and no” replies to her questions and abruptly handed
the phone back to June. June explained to Pam that she was “very
worried about Sheila and that she would like me to see her and
form an opinion about her health.” From the discussion with June,
Pam reached the conclusion that Sheila was “acting oddly”

06 * 23:00 Approx - Having watched television, Jeremy goes to bed.

07 * 7 Aug 03:15 Approx - Nevill telephones his son, Jeremy, stating
his sister Sheila had "gone crazy" and “had the gun." He also said
“Please come over.” The phone then went dead. It had either been
unplugged or left off the hook.

Jeremy's time is 03:10 not 03:15

08 * 03:20 Approx - Jeremy then makes several attempts to call
Nevill back using 'redial' and got the engaged tone. Unbeknown to
Jeremy this was because Nevill had realised that he needed police
assistance with Sheila.

He would have to have called Nevill back before 03:20 if he Nevill called at 03:10

09 * 03:20 - Nevill telephones police stating that his daughter, Sheila,
had "got hold” of one of his guns. The call is noted and titled
"daughter gone berserk." Nevill referred to Sheila's age as 26 years.

Who took Nevill's call? West? This means West is a liar from the off - hardly likely

10 * 03:26 - PC West telephones Malcolm Bonnett “On the internal
police line” to relay the call he has just received from Nevill
Bamber.

He did indeed call Bonnett, but not to relay Nevill's call, he relayed Jeremy's call. Jeremy was unsure about both Sheila's age and her married name. Both logs mention that her name is 'Bamber' and there is a discrepancy over her age - these points were things that Jeremy didn't know so it's not surprising that there is confusion and it's hardly likely that Nevill wouldn't know her married name either. One more point, West log coantins Nevill's age, the log Bonnett wrote does not because Bonnett asked Jeremy this question after f= he finished talking to Bonnett.

11 * 03:30 Approx - PC Saxby receives a radio message, stating he
should attend at White House Farm.



12 * 03:35 - Police vehicle CA7 is dispatched to WHF.

13 * 03:36 - PC West told DCI Dickinson in November 1986, that he
called Malcolm Bonnett (discussing a call from Jeremy to Police
about the WHF incident) at this time. However, in his 16th
September statement he claims to have not actually received
Jeremy Bamber’s call until 3:36. PC West also claimed in his 9th
of September statement that Jeremy called him at 3:26. Jeremy's
call to the police refers to Sheila's age at 27 - which was accurate.

West got the times wrong and again, it was Jeremy who couldn't remember Sheila's age (26 or 27).

14 * 03:36 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell are dispatched in police
vehicle CA5.

16 * 03:36 - Police vehicle CA05 is dispatched to WHF, according
to PC West’s Log.

17 * 03:38 - Police suggest to Jeremy he should meet them at WHF
and, before doing so, he telephones Julie. The time of this call is
strongly contested by six different people. The time of the call
gets earlier in each witness statement made by prosecution
witnesses, some claimed as early as 2:59. Under cross-examination
most of the witnesses said the call could well have been closer to
3:30. The variance moots the point and suggests the possibility that
other house members might have smoked marijuana with Julie that
evening.

Jeremy said he called Julie at 03:25 so the above it picked out of the air and it was West who told him to meet the police so it was before 03:38.

18 * 03:42 - Jeremy leaves his cottage and makes his way to White
House Farm.

19 * 03:48 - Vehicle CA07 arrives at the end of Pages Lane at the
junction with Tollesbury Road. Jeremy then arrives at the same
location and is, from this time onward, in the company of police.

20 * 03:49 - Officers Bews and Myall along with Jeremy exit their
cars at the junction of Tollesbury Road and have a short discussion,
after which a decision is made by police to drive further down the
lane and park by the farm cottages.

21 * 03:50 - PC Batchelor is attributed as writing a log at the scene
from 03:50 onwards but he didn’t arrive at the scene until 04:25am.

22 * 03:55 - Officers Bews, Myall and Jeremy begin a 'perimeter
check' of the farmhouse, during which PC Myall indicates he can
see "movement" in an upstairs window. A Tactical Firearms Unit
(TFU) is contacted. The Major Incident Report at the scene goes
as far as to list what was seen as an 'Unidentified male.' Bews
makes a situation report to HQ over the radio.

23 * 04:00 - PC Saxby told the Dickinson Enquiry that he started
keeping a log at this time. In addition, he also states that he started
another, separate log which detailed who arrived and who left
White House Farm. This log has never been disclosed.

Several people kept logs which is why the whole thing got confusing

24 * 04:09 - Police report at this time that there are "no signs of life"
within the house - keep in mind that at this time that police noted:
"...all lights on in premises." This report was made as a result of PS
Bews making a second recce of the house. He told the Dickinson
Enquiry that he may have gone back a third time.

25 * 04:22 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell arrive at the Farm in car
CA5.

26 * 04:23 - PC Batchelor and PC Lay arrive at the Farm in car CA6.

27 * 04:58 - The Firearms Unit (TFU) arrives at WHF along with a
dog unit; police vehicles QK26, QZO5, and QK50. The vehicles
contained: QK26 – PC Adams and 5 TFU Officers QK50 –
PC Mackintosh - QK05 – Dog Unit-PC Mercer.

28 * 05:25 - The Firearms team are recorded as being "in conversation
with a person from inside the farm." Jeremy is asked at this time
what Sheila would like to talk about as police arranged to engage
her in conversation.
They clearly attempted to make contact and the next sentence shows that there was no two way conversation at all 'met with no response'

29 * 05:29 - Police logs note that a "challenge to persons inside the
house [was] met with no response."

30 05:42 - A relief radio operator, PC Nicholas Milbank, takes over
from Malcolm Bonnett. PC Milbank didn’t make a statement in
1985 and it wasn’t until he was interviewed on 18.08.2002. that his
identity was revealed to the Defence. He has never disclosed what
he heard from inside White House Farm over the open telephone
line. The open line was also being recorded yet neither this recording
nor PC Milbank’s testimony is made known to the Jury and
has never been disclosed to the Defence

Because he didn't hear anything


31 * 05:45 - PC West records that GPO (Post Office) are asked to
check the phone line at White House Farm. By 1985 this would
have actually been tasked to British Telecom.

GPO/BT heard nothing either

32 * 05:47 - PC West is informed that the "phone at the scene [is]
engaged." However more than two hours prior at 03.42, West had
been told: "phone had been left off the hook."

33 * 05:50 - PC Myall starts a log but it has been disclosed and
inaccurately attributed to PC Saxby. Myall told Dickinson that he
drove car CA7 into the farmyard and began Log 12.

34 * 06:00 - Paramedics called. Ambulance 051 and 2 crew are
dispatched.

35 * 06:09 - Emergency service operators, as well as GPO/BT
operators now monitor the telephone line to White House Farm.
Jean Rowe a BT operator continues to monitor the phone
intermittently. This was being recorded onto tape but the tapes
have never been disclosed.

Had she hear anything of worth, she's have said so or is this someone else who helped frame an innocent man? For what purpose?

36 * 06:19 - PC Chaplin and PC Dixon arrive at White House Farm
in car CG32.

37 * 06:20 - Further paramedics called to the scene. Ambulance 070
and 2 crew are dispatched.

38 * 06:42 - PC Hall and PC Manners arrive at the scene in van QK23.
Also Inspector Montgomery and five TFU officers.

39 * 06:44 - Chief Inspector Clark arrives in car CG/10.

40 * 06:45 - APS Manners states that PC Collins looked into the
kitchen through the window before they broke into the house and
“reported seeing what he thought was the body of a female just
inside the kitchen door,” but apparently Nevill Bamber was found
by the Aga cooker.

41 * 07:00 - Curtains in Master Bedroom recorded as Closed. Lights
are recorded as being off in the master bedroom.

42 * 07:00 approx. - Ch. /Insp. Gibbons and PC Panting arrive at the
scene.

43 * 07:02 - A/PS Moule and five more TFU Officers arrive at the
scene in transit vehicle QK24. Thirty-two Police Officers and four
paramedics are already at the scene.

44 * 07:10 Approx - PC Brown sees a rifle in the window of the 'box'
room, adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:00am and
9:00am.

Have we got his statement?

45 * 07:15 - Curtains in the Master Bedroom now recorded as open,
with the light turned on.

46 * 07:15 - CSI Harris and PC Reed arrive at the Farm in car CA02.

47 * 07:20 - Further Paramedics called to the scene (approximate).

48 * 07:30 - Paramedics called to relieve one of the earlier crews. In
all 9 arrive at the scene.

49 * 07:30 - WPC Jeapes sees a rifle in the window of the 'box' room,
adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:30am and 9:00am. She
is located independently from PC Brown. There are no photographs
taken of this room from inside or outside the house.

No she doesn't - she saw something that 'appeared' to be a rifle

Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Roch

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2017, 10:17:PM »
Quite a lot has been amalgamated  ;D

Tbf,

I think they will have been governed somewhat by the type and length of the article / site.  I had in mind the FSU having been stood down from other duties - which appears to occur prior to any report from the scene.

Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2017, 10:19:PM »
Bamber's Witness Statement does not mention anywhere that the police had told him Nevill had called them. Surprised they never told him this.
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 10:27:PM »
The timeline does not say what Bamber was doing between getting Nevill's call and phoning the police. Which was a 26 minute period.

He certainly was not phoning Julie. Or was he ?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 10:29:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2017, 10:32:PM »
Thought this may be helpful

Below has been taken from Jeremy Bambers police interviews - as this stage he has yet to be charged with the murders...

Police: In view of this what you have told us about your father phoning you in the early hours of the 7th August saying words to the effect "Sheila has gone crazy she has got a gun" cannot be true can it?

Bamber: He did phone me on that morning saying words to that effect.

Police: If she was murdered, which she was how could your father mention Sheila?

Bamber: As in my first statement and on talking to the police on the night I was unsure whether he said, Sheila or she has."

Police: You have told and put in writing to us that you said Sheila's gone crazy you told police officers who came to the scene with you it was Sheila and you have repeated to us and to your girlfriend, it was Sheila that had gone crazy are you now changing Sheila to she has for the first time?

Bamber: No, I'm just saying (I've got to get my words right) - long pause. I'm just trying to remember the question.

Police: I will repeat the question

Bamber: It is easy to make conclusions as to what was going on and at the time and until now I have been told Sheila did it.

Police: My question was have you changed Sheila to she has?

Bamber: No, but I did at the time to the police on the phone say Sheila's gone crazy she's got a gun or she's got a gun she's gone crazy and I'm sure the police officer will back that up, but after being told that my sister had killed everybody it was a logical conclusion to say in my statement Sheila instead of she has.

Police:You see Mr Bamber you told the police officer on the phone it was Sheila, you mentioned it was your sister, the fact that she was suffering from mental illness so we are all told the phone call could not have been from Sheila because she has been murdered, you have now changed today from Sheila to she has. Why suddenly change from Sheila to she has?

Bamber: This is not a sudden change all I am saying is what my father said to me on the phone call which I expressed to the policeman that morning, either Sheila had gone crazy or shes got a gun or gone crazy which is my fathers words, not mine, I at the time concluded with no evidence that it must have been my sister who had a long history of mental illness.

Police: I put it to you that the reason you have changed your story is because today I have told you that Sheila was murdered and in no way could your father have said "It was Sheila." Is that the reason?

Bamber: No but at the time, as I have expressed twice, that I was unsure of the message but when I did my statement I concluded as I have said, that Sheila was the name used and not she has. They sound similarish when said fast and in a panicked voice.

Police:Are you now saying that a women killed your family as you have changed Sheila to she has?

Bamber: No, I am not saying who killed my family, if it is proved that my sister did not, and I am not changing my original words.

Police: But you have told that night on the phone verbally and the next day in writing that your Dad said Sheila, what is your position?

Bamber: On the morning when I rang the police as I have said three times before I expressed to versions of what he said and when I made my statement, it did not seem important and I naturally made the conclusion that he used the word Sheila.

Police: When you received that call from your father what was your immediate thought?

Bamber: Don't remember probably many things whizzed through my head

Police:You are an intelligent man and surely the first thing you thought about doing was to phone the police, dont you agree?

Bamber: Its a matter of opinion

Police: You say it's a matter of opinion there was your father saying Sheila or as you now say she has gone crazy with a gun The most logical thing to do was to call the police, because he appeared o be in danger.

Bamber: True, the most logical thing to do was ring the police but whether he was in danger, I had no idea. I had no evidence, or no idea at the time.

Police: But you must have thought it because you did ring the police. Do you agree?

Bamber: I did phone the police but for many different reasons.

Police: Such as?

Bamber: Long pause. No comment. Silly question.



Recap - When being interviewed about the telephone call he made to Julie on the morning of the murders...

Police: Did you say a police car would come and pick you up?

Bamber: I could have done

Police: Wasn't that the arrangement made with the policeman at the scene?

Bamber: I had asked one of the police if that was possible but no one could give a firm commitment

Police: It was discussed

Bamber: I seem to remember we had not entered the house so no commitment was necessary. Again asserting his power/control

Police: Why say; We had not entered the house so no commitment was necessary?

Bamber: Because it was not known if my parents were alright



Jeremy Bamber even attempted to blame the dog for shooting Sheila the second time.

Bamber: Automatic gun, nerves, anything could have triggered the gun again. The dog. I think your right but you sound so 100 per cent. He's playing with the police. He knows he's thought of every eventuality.. Well almost..

Police: What do you mean 100 per cent.

Bamber: You say it's impossible

Police: You are not saying the dog pulled the trigger for the second one are you?

Bamber: I'm not saying anything, but nothings impossible. He's reinforcing/asserting his power/control..

Police: You said anything could have triggered the second shot off and you mentioned the dog are you saying that after Sheila had been shot once the dog came along and pulled the trigger for the second one?

Bamber: No, it was only an idea, the dog was in the house He's played that night over and over in his head. He knows it like the back of his hand.

Police: I suggest you knew where the dog was that night , that is why you mentioned the dog. It was found in the room that morning by the bodies. Did you know that?

Bamber: You told me that.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2017, 10:39:PM »
Thought this may be helpful

Below has been taken from Jeremy Bambers police interviews - as this stage he has yet to be charged with the murders...

Police: In view of this what you have told us about your father phoning you in the early hours of the 7th August saying words to the effect "Sheila has gone crazy she has got a gun" cannot be true can it?

Bamber: He did phone me on that morning saying words to that effect.

Police: If she was murdered, which she was how could your father mention Sheila?

Bamber: As in my first statement and on talking to the police on the night I was unsure whether he said, Sheila or she has."

Police: You have told and put in writing to us that you said Sheila's gone crazy you told police officers who came to the scene with you it was Sheila and you have repeated to us and to your girlfriend, it was Sheila that had gone crazy are you now changing Sheila to she has for the first time?

Bamber: No, I'm just saying (I've got to get my words right) - long pause. I'm just trying to remember the question.

Police: I will repeat the question

Bamber: It is easy to make conclusions as to what was going on and at the time and until now I have been told Sheila did it.

Police: My question was have you changed Sheila to she has?

Bamber: No, but I did at the time to the police on the phone say Sheila's gone crazy she's got a gun or she's got a gun she's gone crazy and I'm sure the police officer will back that up, but after being told that my sister had killed everybody it was a logical conclusion to say in my statement Sheila instead of she has.

Police:You see Mr Bamber you told the police officer on the phone it was Sheila, you mentioned it was your sister, the fact that she was suffering from mental illness so we are all told the phone call could not have been from Sheila because she has been murdered, you have now changed today from Sheila to she has. Why suddenly change from Sheila to she has?

Bamber: This is not a sudden change all I am saying is what my father said to me on the phone call which I expressed to the policeman that morning, either Sheila had gone crazy or shes got a gun or gone crazy which is my fathers words, not mine, I at the time concluded with no evidence that it must have been my sister who had a long history of mental illness.

Police: I put it to you that the reason you have changed your story is because today I have told you that Sheila was murdered and in no way could your father have said "It was Sheila." Is that the reason?

Bamber: No but at the time, as I have expressed twice, that I was unsure of the message but when I did my statement I concluded as I have said, that Sheila was the name used and not she has. They sound similarish when said fast and in a panicked voice.

Police:Are you now saying that a women killed your family as you have changed Sheila to she has?

Bamber: No, I am not saying who killed my family, if it is proved that my sister did not, and I am not changing my original words.

Police: But you have told that night on the phone verbally and the next day in writing that your Dad said Sheila, what is your position?

Bamber: On the morning when I rang the police as I have said three times before I expressed to versions of what he said and when I made my statement, it did not seem important and I naturally made the conclusion that he used the word Sheila.

Police: When you received that call from your father what was your immediate thought?

Bamber: Don't remember probably many things whizzed through my head

Police:You are an intelligent man and surely the first thing you thought about doing was to phone the police, dont you agree?

Bamber: Its a matter of opinion

Police: You say it's a matter of opinion there was your father saying Sheila or as you now say she has gone crazy with a gun The most logical thing to do was to call the police, because he appeared o be in danger.

Bamber: True, the most logical thing to do was ring the police but whether he was in danger, I had no idea. I had no evidence, or no idea at the time.

Police: But you must have thought it because you did ring the police. Do you agree?

Bamber: I did phone the police but for many different reasons.

Police: Such as?

Bamber: Long pause. No comment. Silly question.



Recap - When being interviewed about the telephone call he made to Julie on the morning of the murders...

Police: Did you say a police car would come and pick you up?

Bamber: I could have done

Police: Wasn't that the arrangement made with the policeman at the scene?

Bamber: I had asked one of the police if that was possible but no one could give a firm commitment

Police: It was discussed

Bamber: I seem to remember we had not entered the house so no commitment was necessary. Again asserting his power/control

Police: Why say; We had not entered the house so no commitment was necessary?

Bamber: Because it was not known if my parents were alright



Jeremy Bamber even attempted to blame the dog for shooting Sheila the second time.

Bamber: Automatic gun, nerves, anything could have triggered the gun again. The dog. I think your right but you sound so 100 per cent. He's playing with the police. He knows he's thought of every eventuality.. Well almost..

Police: What do you mean 100 per cent.

Bamber: You say it's impossible

Police: You are not saying the dog pulled the trigger for the second one are you?

Bamber: I'm not saying anything, but nothings impossible. He's reinforcing/asserting his power/control..

Police: You said anything could have triggered the second shot off and you mentioned the dog are you saying that after Sheila had been shot once the dog came along and pulled the trigger for the second one?

Bamber: No, it was only an idea, the dog was in the house He's played that night over and over in his head. He knows it like the back of his hand.

Police: I suggest you knew where the dog was that night , that is why you mentioned the dog. It was found in the room that morning by the bodies. Did you know that?

Bamber: You told me that.

According to West's statement, Jeremy didn't say 'Sheila' or 'she' when describing what his father had said during the call, West said he claimed Nevill have told him 'Your sister has gone crazy and has the gun'. This is also what is written on the log.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2017, 10:43:PM »
Tbf,

I think they will have been governed somewhat by the type and length of the article / site.  I had in mind the FSU having been stood down from other duties - which appears to occur prior to any report from the scene.


But they are campaigning for Jeremy's release Roch and the mistakes and bias are abundant.

If the campaign team want to be taken seriously they need to get their facts correct and not be swayed by their bias.

It not the size of the timeline that's the problem, it's the content.

It also goes to show the campaign team in a poor light. Anyone with basic knowledge of the case will spot all the errors.

If their submissions to the CCRC are anything like this, they will be ignored, and rightly so.
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Offline Adam

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2017, 10:50:PM »
The timeline after the police arrived at WHF is not really important.

Everyone knows the police at the scene called for backup. And that the raid team entered WHF.

The photo of the gun by the window was either a different gun, or taken after the photos of Sheila had been taken.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.