The only opportunity Bamber had to kill his sister, was after 8.10am!!!

[mike tesko]

When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered.

In 30 years,Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness,nor has he made any attempt to " admit " to carrying out the atrocity in order to be assessed for early release. He could have admitted defeat long before now,but instead has chosen to read through reams of paperwork,where many would have given up and called it a day. He's been determined and steadfast in his quest for innocence and freedom and his preference for solitude has enabled him to focus without distraction.
If I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to converse with anyone anyway !

Hi, Lookout

These are good observations..

There has been only one occasion which I can remember which to me seemed to make a connection  with his inner thoughts, and that was when I once said to him that I thought he might have been Sheila's accomplice. He responded by saying, ' you clever, bastard'...

[mike tesko]

I believe that Jeapes was ordered to keep her gaze fixed on the rifle at the first floor window to and  let Sgt Adams at the forward control point know the instant it vanished, as armed cops approached the farmyard door. Messages which were being passed between Jeapes, Brown and the forward control point, have not yet been disclosed. They purport to confirm that through the 33 minute period it took the raid team to find the two bodies in the kitchen (7.37am) and three bodies upstairs (8.10am) the rifle at the first floor window was not taken or removed..

[Jane]

When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered.

In 30 years,Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness,nor has he made any attempt to " admit " to carrying out the atrocity in order to be assessed for early release. He could have admitted defeat long before now,but instead has chosen to read through reams of paperwork,where many would have given up and called it a day. He's been determined and steadfast in his quest for innocence and freedom and his preference for solitude has enabled him to focus without distraction.
If I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to converse with anyone anyway !

I'd like to know how you're so certain that "Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness" -leaving aside that psychopathy isn't a mental illness but a personality disorder- given that yearly updates, regarding prisoners health, aren't released. I'd also like to know just WHO would be interested in yet another prisoner with a personality disorder. The prisons must see it with startling regularity.

There would be not point in him admitting guilt to be assessed for early release. A) The trial judge never promised a MAXIMUM of 25 years. It was always on the cards that he'd serve a longer term. B) What idiot would admit to killing 3 adults and 2 children and expect to walk away, unscathed, from prison, and remain so on the outside? Surely better to remain inside, comfortable and getting his needs provided for whilst he sifts through mountains of papers. C) If he admitted guilt -and was lucky enough to be released- there wouldn't be a hope in hell of compensation. How would he survive? Surely better to stay inside and hope that someone can get him out on a technicality?

[Stephanie]

When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered.

In 30 years,Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness,nor has he made any attempt to " admit " to carrying out the atrocity in order to be assessed for early release. He could have admitted defeat long before now,but instead has chosen to read through reams of paperwork,where many would have given up and called it a day. He's been determined and steadfast in his quest for innocence and freedom and his preference for solitude has enabled him to focus without distraction.
If I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to converse with anyone anyway !

Hi, Lookout

These are good observations..

There has been only one occasion which I can remember which to me seemed to make a connection  with his inner thoughts, and that was when I once said to him that I thought he might have been Sheila's accomplice. He responded by saying, ' you clever, bastard'...

I'd like to know how you're so certain that "Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness" -leaving aside that psychopathy isn't a mental illness but a personality disorder- given that yearly updates, regarding prisoners health, aren't released. I'd also like to know just WHO would be interested in yet another prisoner with a personality disorder. The prisons must see it with startling regularity.

There would be not point in him admitting guilt to be assessed for early release. A) The trial judge never promised a MAXIMUM of 25 years. It was always on the cards that he'd serve a longer term. B) What idiot would admit to killing 3 adults and 2 children and expect to walk away, unscathed, from prison, and remain so on the outside? Surely better to remain inside, comfortable and getting his needs provided for whilst he sifts through mountains of papers. C) If he admitted guilt -and was lucky enough to be released- there wouldn't be a hope in hell of compensation. How would he survive? Surely better to stay inside and hope that someone can get him out on a technicality?

I don't agree with Mike that Lookout makes a good observation. Lookout merely states her opinion and provides no source for her beliefs. "When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered. This is a false claim.

If Jeremy Bamber has suggested to his supporters he does not have mental health issues following his alleged wrongful conviction; I'd like to know why he has no problems. If he has no issues then this suggests shallow emotion.

Mike states: "There has been only one occasion which I can remember which to me seemed to make a connection  with his inner thoughts, and that was when I once said to him that I thought he might have been Sheila's accomplice. He responded by saying, ' you clever, bastard'...

HUGE clue suggestive of guilt!


Hi Jane,

Prisoners are protected by the human rights law. Therefore Jeremy Bamber's medical records are protected, just as they would be if he were out here.

Mike posted earlier (Today) he thought Jeremy Bamber had a personality disorder.

UK prisoners are not regularly assessed in relation to a personality disorder. I learned this following the death of SH. Prisons prefer to avoid labeling a prisoner where possible and instead focus on self assessment. 

What I do find interesting is that 2 people, who have had direct contact with Jeremy Bamber, have made different observations. One suggest a possible personality disorder (PD) the other suggests no mental health issues or PD?

And finally for now, it's not uncommon for a prisoner to maintain innocence or remain in denial. Most prisoners do not admit guilt.

[Jane]

I don't agree with Mike that Lookout makes a good observation. Lookout merely states her opinion and provides no source for her beliefs. "When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered. This is a false claim.

If Jeremy Bamber has suggested to his supporters he does not have mental health issues following his alleged wrongful conviction; I'd like to know why he has no problems. If he has no issues then this suggests shallow emotion.

Mike states: "There has been only one occasion which I can remember which to me seemed to make a connection  with his inner thoughts, and that was when I once said to him that I thought he might have been Sheila's accomplice. He responded by saying, ' you clever, bastard'...

HUGE clue suggestive of guilt!


Hi Jane,

Prisoners are protected by the human rights law. Therefore Jeremy Bamber's medical records are protected, just as they would be if he were out here.

Mike posted earlier (Today) he thought Jeremy Bamber had a personality disorder.

UK prisoners are not regularly assessed in relation to a personality disorder. I learned this following the death of SH. Prisons prefer to avoid labeling a prisoner where possible and instead focus on self assessment. 

What I do find interesting is that 2 people, who have had direct contact with Jeremy Bamber, have made different observations. One suggest a possible personality disorder (PD) the other suggests no mental health issues or PD?

And finally for now, it's not uncommon for a prisoner to maintain innocence or remain in denial. Most prisoners do not admit guilt.

Thanks for that Steph. I do think prisoners' records should be kept private from Jo Public. I can quite see why prisoners aren't regularly assessed for personality disorders. Does it matter how 'disordered' a personality is deemed to be if the prisoner isn't a problem to themselves and/or other prisoners and staff?

I've been told of someone who 'saw' Jeremy when he was first remanded(?) He was quite certain that Jeremy was a psychopath. Others are known to think differently.

It comes as no surprise to learn that most prisoners don't admit guilt.

[lookout]

I'd like to know how you're so certain that "Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness" -leaving aside that psychopathy isn't a mental illness but a personality disorder- given that yearly updates, regarding prisoners health, aren't released. I'd also like to know just WHO would be interested in yet another prisoner with a personality disorder. The prisons must see it with startling regularity.

There would be not point in him admitting guilt to be assessed for early release. A) The trial judge never promised a MAXIMUM of 25 years. It was always on the cards that he'd serve a longer term. B) What idiot would admit to killing 3 adults and 2 children and expect to walk away, unscathed, from prison, and remain so on the outside? Surely better to remain inside, comfortable and getting his needs provided for whilst he sifts through mountains of papers. C) If he admitted guilt -and was lucky enough to be released- there wouldn't be a hope in hell of compensation. How would he survive? Surely better to stay inside and hope that someone can get him out on a technicality?
[/quote





There are more people on the outside who are living with personality disorders,psycopathy and the like,than inside.
You have to make up your mind regarding behaviour here and how different people would react. I count myself as normal,but-----------in the confines of a prison and as being innocent to boot,it would cause me to display violence,disruption,threatening behaviour and all the other normal reactions of someone who had got the blame for having done something they didn't . So by saying and believing that Jeremy has a mental problem, i.e.psychopathy and everything that goes with it,that in 30 years why hasn't he displayed any indications of having a "sick" brain ?

Who's the sick one---------me who's causing ructions or Jeremy who's taking things in his stride ?

[Jane]

I'd like to know how you're so certain that "Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness" -leaving aside that psychopathy isn't a mental illness but a personality disorder- given that yearly updates, regarding prisoners health, aren't released. I'd also like to know just WHO would be interested in yet another prisoner with a personality disorder. The prisons must see it with startling regularity.

There would be not point in him admitting guilt to be assessed for early release. A) The trial judge never promised a MAXIMUM of 25 years. It was always on the cards that he'd serve a longer term. B) What idiot would admit to killing 3 adults and 2 children and expect to walk away, unscathed, from prison, and remain so on the outside? Surely better to remain inside, comfortable and getting his needs provided for whilst he sifts through mountains of papers. C) If he admitted guilt -and was lucky enough to be released- there wouldn't be a hope in hell of compensation. How would he survive? Surely better to stay inside and hope that someone can get him out on a technicality?
[/quote





There are more people on the outside who are living with personality disorders,psycopathy and the like,than inside.
You have to make up your mind regarding behaviour here and how different people would react. I count myself as normal,but-----------in the confines of a prison and as being innocent to boot,it would cause me to display violence,disruption,threatening behaviour and all the other normal reactions of someone who had got the blame for having done something they didn't . So by saying and believing that Jeremy has a mental problem, i.e.psychopathy and everything that goes with it,that in 30 years why hasn't he displayed any indications of having a "sick" brain ?

Who's the sick one---------me who's causing ructions or Jeremy who's taking things in his stride ?

What IS normal? You regard yourself as being so, AS do I, but we're as different as chalk to cheese. I have never yet shown anger by violence, disruption, or threatening behaviour. Thus far, they're outside of my 'norm'. You still seem unable or unwilling to accept that being a psychopath ISN'T a mental problem but a personality disorder. His behaviour can't be measured against yours.

[mike tesko]

Having a personality disorder as in Jeremy's case, has no bearing whatsoever on whether he killed his sister or not. I don't think the latest evidence regarding the earliest possible time Sheila could have arrived in the main bedroom can be considered to be a technicality.  If Sheila wasn't physically upstairs in the main bedroom at 7.37am, then what the prosecution alleged during the trial was seriously misleading since Bamber could not possibly have staged his sisters death scene there upstairs in the bedroom. If somebody killed Sheila and staged her death there, by planting the rifle from the window on her body could only have been the police themselves. If Sheila had taken her own life, the cops wouldn't have needed to stage her death scene at all. The fact that they must have done, provides a huge clue surrounding the circumstances of Sheila Caffells death in the bedroom. The rifle at the first floor window did not jump from the window onto Sheila's body all by itself.  Sheila was deemed to be dead in the kitchen at 7.37am, but if the rifle was still resting against a first floor window,  how can it have been used to shoot her in the kitchen downstairs?  Police were convinced Sheila was dead in the kitchen at 7.37am, so she must have already been shot by that stage. Her body could not have been one of only three bodies upstairs in the bedrooms. This is because two other bodies already present downstairs in the kitchen.  The police tampered with the sequence that key crime scene photographs were taken. During the trial, it was claimed that the rifle had veen photographed on Sheila's body prior to it being photographed at the main bedroom window.  But the truth is that the rifle was photographed at the main bedroom window, prior to it being photographed on Sheila's body. Such a deception occurred because Sheila had not shot and killed herself with the rifle from the first floor window after 8.10am. The only alternative is that police shot her dead on the bedroom floor after 8.10am at a time she was unconscious. ..

[Caroline]

When someone wipes out a whole family,they either end up " half-heartedly " trying to take their own lives,or actually succeeding in doing so,or alternatively,pleading insanity and therefore ending their lives in institutions such as Broadmoor or Ashworth,for the criminally insane where appropriate medical treatment is then administered.

In 30 years,Jeremy has given no indication of suffering from a mental illness,nor has he made any attempt to " admit " to carrying out the atrocity in order to be assessed for early release. He could have admitted defeat long before now,but instead has chosen to read through reams of paperwork,where many would have given up and called it a day. He's been determined and steadfast in his quest for innocence and freedom and his preference for solitude has enabled him to focus without distraction.
If I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to converse with anyone anyway !

This is quite interesting - http://www.oddee.com/item_99056.aspx

[Roch]

Mike states: "There has been only one occasion which I can remember which to me seemed to make a connection  with his inner thoughts, and that was when I once said to him that I thought he might have been Sheila's accomplice. He responded by saying, ' you clever, bastard'...

HUGE clue suggestive of guilt!

Steph - Unlikely to mean what you think. Unless you are prepared to accept that Sheila Caffell was involved in the killings?

This is either a reference to just such a scenario - or - it is a quip between prison friends, regarding Mike's attempts to understand various scenarios.

[David1819]

Prisoners are protected by the human rights law. Therefore Jeremy Bamber's medical records are protected, just as they would be if he were out here.

Mike posted earlier (Today) he thought Jeremy Bamber had a personality disorder.

UK prisoners are not regularly assessed in relation to a personality disorder. I learned this following the death of SH. Prisons prefer to avoid labeling a prisoner where possible and instead focus on self assessment. 

What I do find interesting is that 2 people, who have had direct contact with Jeremy Bamber, have made different observations. One suggest a possible personality disorder (PD) the other suggests no mental health issues or PD?

And finally for now, it's not uncommon for a prisoner to maintain innocence or remain in denial. Most prisoners do not admit guilt.

Professor Egan's university profile.

HCPC-accredited forensic and clinical psychologist. Expert in the administration of forensic risk assessment instruments (PCL-R, HCR-20, SVR-20), assessment of personality disorder (IPDE), and the assessment of intelligence (WASI, WAIS-IV, Wechsler Memory Scale).

He was prepared to put his reputation on the line concluding Jeremy was no psychopath or having any personality disorder. Those who continue to claim Jeremy is a psychopath or has a PD have so far failed to give a single valid answer to refute Egan's assessment.

[lookout]

Having a personality disorder as in Jeremy's case, has no bearing whatsoever on whether he killed his sister or not. I don't think the latest evidence regarding the earliest possible time Sheila could have arrived in the main bedroom can be considered to be a technicality.  If Sheila wasn't physically upstairs in the main bedroom at 7.37am, then what the prosecution alleged during the trial was seriously misleading since Bamber could not possibly have staged his sisters death scene there upstairs in the bedroom. If somebody killed Sheila and staged her death there, by planting the rifle from the window on her body could only have been the police themselves. If Sheila had taken her own life, the cops wouldn't have needed to stage her death scene at all. The fact that they must have done, provides a huge clue surrounding the circumstances of Sheila Caffells death in the bedroom. The rifle at the first floor window did not jump from the window onto Sheila's body all by itself.  Sheila was deemed to be dead in the kitchen at 7.37am, but if the rifle was still resting against a first floor window,  how can it have been used to shoot her in the kitchen downstairs?  Police were convinced Sheila was dead in the kitchen at 7.37am, so she must have already been shot by that stage. Her body could not have been one of only three bodies upstairs in the bedrooms. This is because two other bodies already present downstairs in the kitchen.  The police tampered with the sequence that key crime scene photographs were taken. During the trial, it was claimed that the rifle had veen photographed on Sheila's body prior to it being photographed at the main bedroom window.  But the truth is that the rifle was photographed at the main bedroom window, prior to it being photographed on Sheila's body. Such a deception occurred because Sheila had not shot and killed herself with the rifle from the first floor window after 8.10am. The o ly alternative is that police shot her dead on the bedroom floor after 8.10am at a time sge was unconscious. ..

Mike I agree that having a personality disorder doesn't rate you a killer. Neither does having the worst temper in the world. It's interesting to note the old adage by saying " the quiet ones are the worst " and less trusting than those who are vocal. Very true.
Much has been said about Jeremy's " high " lifestyle and outgoing personality,arrogance and don't-care attitude which denotes openness.Rather that than a sulky,sullen,deep-thinking person who you'd never know what he was thinking. I'd say beware. Jeremy had too big a mouth to have kept anything to himself.
Sheila had been the sombre one on the night of the murders. !

 

[Stephanie]

Steph - Unlikely to mean what you think. Unless you are prepared to accept that Sheila Caffell was involved in the killings?

This is either a reference to just such a scenario - or - it is a quip between prison friends, regarding Mike's attempts to understand various scenarios.

A quip or dupers delight?

[Stephanie]

Thanks for that Steph. I do think prisoners' records should be kept private from Jo Public. I can quite see why prisoners aren't regularly assessed for personality disorders. Does it matter how 'disordered' a personality is deemed to be if the prisoner isn't a problem to themselves and/or other prisoners and staff?

I've been told of someone who 'saw' Jeremy when he was first remanded(?) He was quite certain that Jeremy was a psychopath. Others are known to think differently.

It comes as no surprise to learn that most prisoners don't admit guilt.

In 2014 a new Personality Disorder Unit was being built at HMP Wayland. The units are referred to as PIPE. I posted about this the other day. They are a new initiative being introduced into UK prisons. I've wondered recently if Jeremy Bamber is housed on a PD unit and whether or not that was the reason he transferred out of the last prison?

I've been meaning to reply to Mike's earlier post about when he met Jeremy. Mike talks about how he met him and then goes on to talk about another time, a few years on. I'm interested to learn about the bit in between...

For what it's worth, SH always said Bamber was a psychopath too.

I'm sure there's a name for a prisoner in denial, or an abbreviation for it? I can't recall. not that it matters.

[Stephanie]

Lookout posts:

"There are more people on the outside who are living with personality disorders,psycopathy and the like,than inside.
You have to make up your mind regarding behaviour here and how different people would react. I count myself as normal,but-----------in the confines of a prison and as being innocent to boot,it would cause me to display violence,disruption,threatening behaviour and all the other normal reactions of someone who had got the blame for having done something they didn't .

I recently posted up statistics regarding the amount of prisoners in the UK who have PD's and it was very high.

I do however agree, there are a large amount of people out here living with a PD. Some of whom will eventually end up in the prison system.

With regards displaying violence, disruption, threatening behaviour and all Lookout; if Jeremy Bamber were to behave like this in prison he would end up on what is called the block.

However, Jeremy hasn't behaved like this. Therefore why hasn't he behaved like this if he is innocent?