Author Topic: New proposed account of how Sheila could have committed the massacre:  (Read 14008 times)

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Offline Adam

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It seems no one is going to dispute the 15 points highlighting the impossibilites associated with a Sheila committing the massacre scenario on page 1.  Or the alternative scenario on page 3. Even by David who submitted both.

People are entitled to still support Bamber. Because they believe the police somehow fabricated evidence. However there is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence against Bamber, together with no credible explanation of how Sheila could have committed the massacre. It would be wrong to still support Bamber on the basis that he is innocent.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 11:09:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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It seems no one is going to dispute the 15 points highlighting the impossibilites associated with a Sheila committing the massacre scenario on page 1.  Or the alternative scenario on page 3. Even by David who submitted both.

People are entitled to still support Bamber. Because they believe the police somehow fabricated evidence. However there is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence against Bamber, together with no credible explanation of how Sheila could have committed the massacre. It would be wrong to still support Bamber on the basis that he is innocent.

There are no impossibilities to address. No one is obliged to counter fictitious claims.

Offline mike tesko

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No amount of circumstantial evidence or irrelevant scientific evidence can change the fact that Bamber could not have had anything whatsoever to do with the shooting and the killing of his sister in the main bedroom. Police records which were withheld from the court which tried the case prove that Sheila was in the kitchen at 7.37am, and certainly her body was not not laid out on the bedroom floor upstairs before 8.10am, otherwise four bodies would have been accounted for upstairs by this time, when the police records confirm there were only three. With the rifle used to kill her by way of bullet PV/19 resting at a first floor window from 7.15am, onward, it becomes plain to see that Bamber did not shoot her, he did not kill her, he did not stage her death scene on the bedroom floor after 8.10am. He did not remove the silencer from the barrel of the rifle and conceal it in a cupboard downstairs in the den. He had nothing whatsoever to do with any of this. How could he have when from around 3.52am, he had always been in the company of police officers outside the farmhouse? How did he manage to move his sister's body from the kitchen after 7.37am, and deposit her body in the bedroom after 8.10am, and how did he manage to shoot her dead there on the main bedroom floor with a rifle which was at some first floor window, or wherever, and manage to get back outside the farmhouse without cops suspecting anything? Forget about Bamber having played any role in his sister's demise, and death. He didn't shoot her, he simply could not have done so - that's why the cops had to withhold the key police message long contents (7.37 - 8.10am), that's why they had to lie about the order particular photographs were taken in, that's why cops had to swap over one of the two bullets used in his sister's killing with a control round test fired in the rifle (18), so that they could make the case into a one gun crime...

As I say, no amount of circumstantial evidence can go towards showing that Bamber had shot and killed his sister on the bedroom floor at any stage after 8.10am, or beforehand. The guy simply did not have the time or the opportunity to kill his sister as alleged. It is impossible to even contemplate that he could have done such a thing...

This leaves the deaths of the other four victims, namely Ralph, June, Daniel and Nicholas...

I believe that setting aside the shooting and the killing of Sheila Caffell, that it was feasible for Sheila to be responsible for these other deaths. It doesn't matter how big and strong anybody makes out a case for Ralph Bamber being too strong for Sheila to overpower and subdue. With 8 bullets pumped into various parts of his body, and with Sheila being the shooter, of course she could have shot him, and murdered him! Same principle, involving June Bambers death - Sheila could easily have taken control of her mother. Same principles relating to the deaths of her two sons. The sticking point prior to now has been the killing of his sister, and the staging of her death scene in the main bedroom. Until very recently it was not known that there existed some police message logs which make it all the more unlikely that Bamber could have committed his sister's murder, even if he had wanted to? The prosecutions case at trial was that Sheila Caffells body was staged in the main bedroom, and I agree with that view. Her body was staged to make it appear as though she had shot herself twice in the throat with the use of the family owned anshuzt rifle. However, that rifle from its position against a first floor window had only fired one shot into Sheila's throat.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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With Sheila armed with a loaded rifle, you would be considered to be a fool if you thought that she couldn't have dispatched her parents. Of course she could have, and I believe that she did...

With the first full load of the rifle with 10 bullets, she had the means to shoot her mother on the bed with five repeated shots, and then kill Ralph with the next 5 rounds. With this being the possible scenario, the next load of 10 bullets, were in all probability used to finish of June Bamber with 2 shots, and the child victims with the remaining 8 bullets. This would mean that all Sheila had to do was to load sufficient rounds to finish the job,  three more bullets into Ralphs head, then back upstairs to place the loaded rifle against a first floor window - 1 bullet in the breech which would later be fired beneath the point of her chin whilst she lay unconscious on the bedroom floor...

Four episodes then in the shootings (1) shooting of June and Ralph (2) shooting of June and children (3) shooting of Ralph (4) shooting of Sheila. ..
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 08:27:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Information in red taken from officers report concerning the shooting incident in the kitchen. A decision was taken amongst Senior officer Harris and ACC Peter Simpson, that shooting in kitchen could be explained away as having occurred in the bedroom, and that the same gun had fired both shots (the reason for the removal of the silencer by police was purely for technical reasons, designed to conceal use of a police issue weapon in the killing of Sheila Caffell)...

We can only assume that once Sheila had placed the loaded rifle at a first floor window, that she made her way downstairs to the kitchen (unarmed). This must be true because at 7.37am, cops reported the body of one female in the kitchen. This could only be reference to Sheila being present in the kitchen. Cops must have known she had been shot at that stage, because they reported her as being dead. Sheila can't have been shot twice at that time, because otherwise she could never have made it upstairs to the main bedroom after 8.10am. The fact that her body ended up on the main bedroom floor, informs us that the second fatal shot ('PV/19) was not fired until she was back in her parents bedroom. The photographs which show the rifle (23) at the main bedroom window, prior to it being photographed in Sheila's possession (26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33) confirms that the rifle was brought from the window and was retained by the victim. The crux in all this, rests with the original placement of the rifle at the first floor window at 7.15am, and the fact that somebody must have placed the rifle there prior to police entering the farmhouse. It's later position upon Sheila's body in time for PC Bird to photograph it there after 10.00 am can only lead to the inevitable conclusion that either Sheila herself collected the rifle from the first floor window herself, or that somebody else brought the rifle from that first floor window. Alarm bells should be ringing, because if Sheila collected the rifle herself from the first floor window, she must have done so at some point after 7.15am, when Jeapes and Brown both saw the rifle resting against a first floor window. If Sheila took the rifle from that window as described, then of course, Jeremy Bamber could not have shot and killed her. Next - if somebody else brought the rifle to Sheila's body whilst she lay on the main bedroom floor, again this could only have happened after 8.10am, because by that stage there was only three bodies upstairs. The only people who could have brought the rifle from the first floor window was the cops, themselves. Ask yourselves 'why would cops bring the rifle from a first floor window and place the rifle with Sheila's body?  The only possible explanation is that they thought they might be able to get away with saying that Sheila had shot herself once in the throat with use of the family rifle upstairs, rather than by a police issue weapon downstairs in the kitchen. Hence, why the rifle was brought from that first floor window and positioned upon Sheila's body. It was positioned along the front of her body during the performance of 'informatives', which commenced in the bedroom at 9 O'clock sharp. The rifle was laid upon Sheila's body with the muzzle in the general area of the solitary bullet wound situated there. It is believed that the silencer was attached to the barrel of the gun at this time. This had the effect of making the length from muzzle to trigger a greater distance than normal. However, with manipulation of the fingers of Sheila Caffells right hand, the trigger could be reached and with a little help from a police officer, her fingers could activate the trigger mechanism. This is what did occur.  With the silencer fitted, cops couldn't get the muzzle of the silencer and Sheila's trigger finger to match the distance from her trigger finger and the position of the single bullet wound on her throat. This was because with the silencer fitted to the guns barrel the distance between Sheila's outreached trigger finger and the bullet entry hole in her throat was shorter than the distance between her outstretched trigger finger and the muzzle of the silencer - hence, when her trigger finger activated the trigger which fired the fatal round (PV/19), it produced a second bullet wound higher up in the throat of Sheila Caffell than the original bullet entry wound. Once the second shot got activated it startled everybody present. Although it was an accidental shooting in bizarre circumstances it could have been prevented if someone had checked and made the rifle from the first floor window safe before it was placed upon the body. The cops found themselves now with two bullet wounds in Sheila's neck. Senior officers gathered around the body on the floor pondering how best to proceed in presenting the death of Sheila there on the bedroom floor? Harris, Gibbons, Clarke and Jones huddled close to the body, pondering, until Harris said, 'well, there's nothing else for it', he said, 'But' to take the damn silencer off the barrel' (of the rifle). Gibbons questioned his decision, 'Why that, then'?

Harris countered, 'because, with the damn silencer still engaged upon the barrel', he said, ' the damn gun is too long to enable her to have shot herself with the bloody gun because it's too long', said he, 'the length doesn't effect the last shot and the distance between the muzzle end of the silencer to the furthest position of her trigger finger, because that last wound', he says, ' is higher up on the throat', says he, 'But' that distance between the same position of her outstretched trigger finger and the position of the lower entry wound, is shorter', he sighed, adding, 'the same gun can't have fired both of these shots because the distances from her outstretched trigger finger to the lower entry wound is too shot', there's nothing for it but to take off the 'silencer', he said, 'then get the rifle photographed with the body, minus the 'silencer', he says, 'then we can present the death as a shooting where the victim committed suicide using the same gun'
, he finishes...

Silencer was removed from gun after this conversation, and the rifle gauged using the victims outstretched trigger finger and the clean threaded muzzle of the barrel, so as to verify that it was possible for the rifle in question to have inflicted both wounds...

Clarke, 'the fact that there are two shots to the throat could be explained away, as recoil', he said. 'YES' responded Harris, 'sounds like a damn good explanation' , says he, 'right, I'll leave it in your capable hands, I'm leaving'...

'We can sort the ballistics out later', said Harris, adding, ' now, get rid of that damn silencer, put it away, somewhere', he said, 'preferrably as far away from the body, as possible', his trembling voice tailing off..
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 09:49:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Now that the real reason for why the silencer was taken off the barrel of the gun has been made public knowlege, maybe the powers that be, will take steps to get Bambers case, back to the court of appeal. The distance between Sheila's maximised trigger finger against the trigger mechanism with a silencer attached to the barrel of the rifle, could only have permitted her to have shot herself once, not twice. This is because the distance between the lower bullet entry hole on Sheila's throat, to the extended and maximised trigger finger upon the trigger, to the muzzle of the fitted silencer was to big - Sheila couldn't have shot herself across the neck on that first occasion...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Now that the real reason for why the silencer was taken off the barrel of the gun has been made public knowlege, maybe the powers that be, will take steps to get Bambers case, back to the court of appeal. The distance between Sheila's maximised trigger finger against the trigger mechanism with a silencer attached to the barrel of the rifle, could only have permitted her to have shot herself once, not twice. This is because the distance between the lower bullet entry hole on Sheila's throat, to the extended and maximised trigger finger upon the trigger, to the muzzle of the fitted silencer was to big - Sheila couldn't have shot herself across the neck on that first occasion...

And what's more, she didn't...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The first shot across Sheila's neck occurred in the kitchen whilst she was upright and struggling with a person who was in possession of a rifle. The rifle discharged a shot (the original PV/20). That rifle was not the one seen by Jeapes and Brown at a first floor window at 7.15am. The rifle at the first floor window was the family owned Anshuzt Rifle which had a silencer fitted to the end of its barrel. This rifle fired the second shot whilst Sheila lay unconscious and perhaps close to death, but not actually dead up through chin, mouth and deposited itself in Sheila's brain killing her instantly (PV/19) this occurred without her knowlege or direct involvement....
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 10:28:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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To my knowlege Bamber always believed his sister had only been shot once in the throat. He only learned about the second shot existing just prior to his trial in October 1986.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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To my knowlege Bamber always believed his sister had only been shot once in the throat. He only learned about the second shot existing just prior to his trial in October 1986.
He was told this by Julie Mugford upon her return from the morgue...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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In my opinion, if Bamber had any input in these murders, and I once thought this might be true, he was Sheila's accomplice, and by that I mean he coached her on how to load the bullets into the magazine of the rifle, he taught her how to fire the gun. It would have been to Bambers advantage for his sister to have lived, because in those circumstances she would almost certainly have been barred from being a beneficiary of the parents estates because she had killed them. Somebody like Sheila with all the mental issues she had just before her death could perhaps easily be pushed over the edge, and be responsible for what transpired. The way I see it, now in the cold light of day, is that if Bamber encouraged his sister to shoot the family, the role he played may have been one of teaching her about the rifle, how to load it, and how to fire it. If this was the case, I believe it would have proved more beneficial for him, if she had not died at all. In any event, she did not kill herself, and Bamber himself did not kill her. The evidence which proves his innocence is there in the undisclosed material. The family owned anshuzt rifle was resting against a first floor window at 7.15am. it could not have been with Sheila's body on the bedroom floor at this time. Sheila was in the kitchen at 7.37am. She was not upstairs in the main bedroom at 8.10am. Her body was in the main bedroom at 8.44am, when Dr Craig, pronounced her dead, her body on the far side of the bed with what appeared to be a wound on her throat. PC Bird (SOCO) photographed the family rifle resting against the main bedroom window (23). 'DC Oakey' photographed the rifle from the window on Sheila's body with the barrel of the rifle resting against the left side of her neck. PC Bird photographed the same rifle in a different position on the body...

Cops shot Sheila. Cops brought rifle from first floor window and placed it on the body before Oakey and Bird took photographs of the body in possession of the rifle. Firearm officers based the position and location where they first came upon the five bodies of the victims, by referring to the photographs taken by Oakey and Bird which amounts to a deception...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 02:02:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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I don't think Bamber was clever enough to think about the maximum distance from Sheila's extended trigger finger to the tip of the silencer,  making it impossible for his sister to have shot herself on the first occasion, which forced him to remove the silencer from the barrel of the rifle? The reason for this is that the angle of the first shot which suggest that the shooter discharged the weapon whilst ot was being waved around in the air, rather than being hugged close to the body. Alternatively,  that gap did not apply in relation to the second shot because the bullet entry wound was higher up on the throat accommodating the aforementioned distance. With this in mind, why would Bamber remove the silencer after the second shot had been fired?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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However,  if Sheila was shot during a struggle with a member of the firearm team as he entered the kitchen, there is really no need to argue for Bambers innocence because the writing would be on the wall that Bamber did not play a role in the shooting and killing of his sister...

Contents of an officers report exists which provide details of the shooting incident in the kitchen. This relates to the infliction of the first shot across Sheila's throat. The existence of this particular report exonerates Bamber as the killer because it proves that Sheila had still been alive inside the farmhouse after armed police entered the kitchen. I have already touched upon chief reason why cops got rid of the silencer once 'Informatives' had been performed...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 02:37:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The fact that Sheila had been shot twice was a problem created by the police, not any would be killer, or for that matter, Jeremy to have been the killer of his sister?

Why would Bamber feel the need to shoot Sheila a second occasion, if his intention was to make it look like his sistsr had taken her own life?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 03:02:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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People are entitled to still support Bamber. Because they believe the police somehow fabricated evidence.

Thanks for allowing people to support Bamber - but don't most of your fellow 'guilters' also believe that the police somehow fabricated evidence?  A lot of people on your side of the fence believe that the silencer evidence is dud.