The kitchen window

[lookout]

In every article I have read, the research has shown that PND can last up to 3 years. The twins were 6 years of age. Sheila was assessed by people qualified to do so and diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and was being medicated for that illness. It is rare for schizophrenics to kill and even rarer to kill someone while being medicated.

Caroline,I have been in close contact this last couple of weeks or so,with a nurse who works on a psychiatric unit and who also visits various districts where " care in the community " houses ex-patients. One woman in particular who'd given birth 17 years ago and who is now in her 50's still suffers from mental health issues which had been brought on since the birth of her child . Because the condition wasn't recognised,or the patient had been in denial that there'd been anything wrong,her symptoms mushroomed. These people are very, and typically plausible as they can have a perfectly intelligent conversation one minute then something sends them off in a tangent the next minute whatever the trigger may be.
At this late stage,it's not curable but the condition can be contained by the appropriate medication. In a person who hasn't been treated the condition then causes delusions and psychosis.
It's got nothing to do with the length of years that a woman last gave birth,if that particular susceptibility to PND is present,then the chances of it being mis-diagnosed is missed unless there's a history of depression or similar in their medical notes.
I'm going for Sheila having suffered depression initially then since the birth of the twins,post-partum psychosis as I'm aware that these patients are far more likely to murder and or commit suicide than schizophrenics.

[lookout]

A personal trauma can trigger PND into action. Sheila had many trauma's in her short life and by far the worst one was losing Colin to someone else. That would have been the last straw.LOSS.

[lookout]

Sheila would have been treated so differently today and not " hidden " such as her family did. In that respect we have come a long way since 30 years ago in allowing these people to live as normally as possible in a controlled and counselled environment ( residential home ) with the guardianship of the mental health workers until such times that the patients feel confident enough to manage on their own.   

[Caroline]

Caroline,I have been in close contact this last couple of weeks or so,with a nurse who works on a psychiatric unit and who also visits various districts where " care in the community " houses ex-patients. One woman in particular who'd given birth 17 years ago and who is now in her 50's still suffers from mental health issues which had been brought on since the birth of her child . Because the condition wasn't recognised,or the patient had been in denial that there'd been anything wrong,her symptoms mushroomed. These people are very, and typically plausible as they can have a perfectly intelligent conversation one minute then something sends them off in a tangent the next minute whatever the trigger may be.
At this late stage,it's not curable but the condition can be contained by the appropriate medication. In a person who hasn't been treated the condition then causes delusions and psychosis.
It's got nothing to do with the length of years that a woman last gave birth,if that particular susceptibility to PND is present,then the chances of it being mis-diagnosed is missed unless there's a history of depression or similar in their medical notes.
I'm going for Sheila having suffered depression initially then since the birth of the twins,post-partum psychosis as I'm aware that these patients are far more likely to murder and or commit suicide than schizophrenics.

I can go along with the notion that her problems started with PND and escalated because nothing was done. I guess we kind of agree?

[lookout]

I can go along with the notion that her problems started with PND and escalated because nothing was done. I guess we kind of agree?

Indeed we do. I feel that anyone would agree.

[Jan]

A  MacArthur Study of Mental Disorder noted that there was no correlation between TCO(threat/control-override) symptoms and violence amongst recently discharged psychiatric patients. I put it to you that the reason Sheila was clinging to her parents at the table was she found their company preferable to her brother's. He was obviously miffed at his workload and refused to go out into the field again at that late hour, which became the trigger for the massacre that followed. 

http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychiatry/article/65126/schizophrenia-other-psychotic-disorders/evaluating-psychotic

I don't really think you have a grasp on farming life and how people pitch in to help each other , who knows Neville may have taken turns with Jeremy to do the last run , I can't see how it is relevant as a contributing factor to murder your whole family. And if you read Colin's book the Sheila had big problems with her mother , probably not justified but he definitely uses the book to emphasise that. Which I find quite sad actually as there is no one free to give the other aspect of the relationship .

[Steve_uk]

I don't really think you have a grasp on farming life and how people pitch in to help each other , who knows Neville may have taken turns with Jeremy to do the last run , I can't see how it is relevant as a contributing factor to murder your whole family. And if you read Colin's book the Sheila had big problems with her mother , probably not justified but he definitely uses the book to emphasise that. Which I find quite sad actually as there is no one free to give the other aspect of the relationship .

Well let's just say Jeremy was displeased on the Tuesday night, as can be ascertained from Telephone Call 1 of 3 during those last fateful hours. Of course if you doubt Julie you're entitled to doubt this anecdotal evidence. I'm quite sure Jeremy had pitched in often enough from childhood and by 24 years old was thoroughly sick of doing so. There had been tittle-tattle that he once threw some potatoes in a ditch in a petulant manner several years previously and I don't think it's earth-shattering news to state that his heart wasn't in farming, a career choice he had no say in whatsoever, though faute de mieux  was lumbered with it.

[maggie]

I don't really think you have a grasp on farming life and how people pitch in to help each other , who knows Neville may have taken turns with Jeremy to do the last run , I can't see how it is relevant as a contributing factor to murder your whole family. And if you read Colin's book the Sheila had big problems with her mother , probably not justified but he definitely uses the book to emphasise that. Which I find quite sad actually as there is no one free to give the other aspect of the relationship .

Hi Jan, excellent post imo.
I do think we have to be careful to not put too much belief into what is a possibility. As you say in any intensive work situation generally everyone supports each other. It may have been that Nevill told JB to go home and he would do the last load. That is a natural action of a father to a son who has maybe worked hard that day with another busy day to come. We cannot assume JB just dumped Nevill with the last load and went home or any of the other theories which are all possibilities but unproven.

I also agree with you about Sheila's relationship with June which may have been exacerbated by June's apparent forthright approach to life and her own mental health struggles but could also have some bearing on Sheila's P.S. symptoms. It is common that sufferers of Paranoid Scizophrenia do often scapegoat a member of their family and this is very often the mother.

I agree it is very sad that as you say there is no one to speak up for June who struggled so hard herself and had such a dreadful death.
We simply do not know the truth about June, much of what Colin writes is from Sheila's perspective but we have to remember that Sheila was mentally ill and possibly began to develop her illness long before her trip to Japan and the birth of the twins.

Mental illness is never the sufferers fault  neither Sheila or June were responsible for their own illness as far as I can see. We have no idea what may have caused June's particular illness and shouldn't make assumptions imo.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Jan, excellent post imo.
I do think we have to be careful to not put too much belief into what is a possibility. As you say in any intensive work situation generally everyone supports each other. It may have been that Nevill told JB to go home and he would do the last load. That is a natural action of a father to a son who has maybe worked hard that day with another busy day to come. We cannot assume JB just dumped Nevill with the last load and went home or any of the other theories which are all possibilities but unproven.

I also agree with you about Sheila's relationship with June which may have been exacerbated by June's apparent forthright approach to life and her own mental health struggles but could also have some bearing on Sheila's P.S. symptoms. It is common that sufferers of Paranoid Scizophrenia do often scapegoat a member of their family and this is very often the mother.

I agree it is very sad that as you say there is no one to speak up for June who struggled so hard herself and had such a dreadful death.
We simply do not know the truth about June, much of what Colin writes is from Sheila's perspective but we have to remember that Sheila was mentally ill and possibly began to develop her illness long before her trip to Japan and the birth of the twins.

Mental illness is never the sufferers fault  neither Sheila or June were responsible for their own illness as far as I can see. We have no idea what may have caused June's particular illness and shouldn't make assumptions imo.

Wasn't it Robert Boutflour who blamed both Sheila and Jeremy for June's illness?  Strange really when Sheila wasn't even around the first time she became ill. On the second occasion June was so ill she couldn't speak to Robert within the confines of the Northampton hospital but settled for talking inside his car in the hospital car park to avoid the eavesdropping from the nurses.

We will never know the true relationship between mother and daughter, but as Sheila blossomed into a beautiful young woman is it too much to argue that June felt that she was competing for her husband's affection and upbraided her at every turn: the Devil's child remark, the refusal to let her marry in the local Church, the "who's a clever girl?" quip at the hospital bedside and the inadvertent lack of tactile affection which had blighted their relationship all those years?

The plain fact is that Sheila never did strike back, cocooned in her own reality but sensible enough to ascertain her mental health fared better outside the reach of June, who in those last months did have a change of heart as she realized she may have exacerbated both her children's insecurities over the many years they were under her guardianship and from which both children wished extrication. Unfortunately it was too little too late as she tried to make amends with the written apology, when what both needed was a tactile admission that her parenting skills had been lacking as they had taken second place to her charitable works.

With Sheila's illnesses brought to the fore the Bambers thus took their eye off the ball as far as Jeremy was concerned and maybe the pressure on him was ratcheted up just when he needed solace and comfort from the loss of Suzette. The case of Jeffrey Pyne springs to mind, or Jeremy Bamber without gloves as I maybe too irreverently call it, and though not an exact parallel shows what can happen manifestly as pressure mounts on a family with no outlet from which it can escape.

https://youtu.be/ZzD0gbShdVg

[lookout]

June was ill before she'd even contemplated adoption when she'd known and realised that she couldn't bear children. This news is traumatic enough for ANY woman. NOBODY can ever describe the woman's feelings when they receive such news,nor envisage what it must do to their mental health.

[maggie]

Wasn't it Robert Boutflour who blamed both Sheila and Jeremy for June's illness?  Strange really when Sheila wasn't even around the first time she became ill. On the second occasion June was so ill she couldn't speak to Robert within the confines of the Northampton hospital but settled for talking inside his car in the hospital car park to avoid the eavesdropping from the nurses.

We will never know the true relationship between mother and daughter, but as Sheila blossomed into a beautiful young woman is it too much to argue that June felt that she was competing for her husband's affection and upbraided her at every turn: the Devil's child remark, the refusal to let her marry in the local Church, the "who's a clever girl?" quip at the hospital bedside and the inadvertent lack of tactile affection which had blighted their relationship all those years?

The plain fact is that Sheila never did strike back, cocooned in her own reality but sensible enough to ascertain her mental health fared better outside the reach of June, who in those last months did have a change of heart as she realized she may have exacerbated both her children's insecurities over the many years they were under her guardianship and from which both children wished extrication. Unfortunately it was too little too late as she tried to make amends with the written apology, when what both needed was a tactile admission that her parenting skills had been lacking as they had taken second place to her charitable works.

With Sheila's illnesses brought to the fore the Bambers thus took their eye off the ball as far as Jeremy was concerned and maybe the pressure on him was ratcheted up just when he needed solace and comfort from the loss of Suzette. The case of Jeffrey Pyne springs to mind, or Jeremy Bamber without gloves as I maybe too irreverently call it, and though not an exact parallel shows what can happen manifestly as pressure mounts on a family with no outlet from which it can escape.

https://youtu.be/ZzD0gbShdVg

I have no idea what caused June's illness and agree the cause could not have been Sheila or Jeremy although they may well have exacerbated it during their teenage years.
The seeds of her illness may have been genetic or from a cause in her childhood, which is often when damage is done.  We also have to remember June's role in the war we know she was in a very stressful position at that time.  Much is spoken about Nevill's war record but June's war history is disregarded which seems a tad unfair to me.
Whatever caused June's mental health illnesses she certainly didnt wish them on herself anymore than anyone else does and imo she deserves compassion.

[lookout]

Remember too that Sheila suffered losses through abortion and miscarriage. Is this something that a woman gets over easily ? NO ! The loss of lives in Sheila's case was bound to have had an impact on her life,she wouldn't have been human otherwise. All those babies gone,but in Sheila's mind,never forgotten and she had to also carry these thoughts as well as everything else that happened in her life.

June's illness had NOTHING whatsoever to do with either Sheila or Jeremy.Her coping mechanism wasn't prepared in bringing up two children. A lot of mothers can't cope with their own flesh and blood let alone those who've been adopted,so blaming Sheila and Jeremy for June's ill-health is unfounded. Had she have been a mentally fit woman,she'd have managed like everyone else does.
I can only expect that someone like RWB would have come out with a nonsense such as he said.

[maggie]

June was ill before she'd even contemplated adoption when she'd known and realised that she couldn't bear children. This news is traumatic enough for ANY woman. NOBODY can ever describe the woman's feelings when they receive such news,nor envisage what it must do to their mental health.

I agree Lookout but I would suggest that June may have already had coping difficulties, while it is very traumatic and life changing for some women to be told they will never have a child I do believe we are either genetically disposed to mental breakdown or genetically disposed to stand up and fight when we are faced with such trauma.  I would guess June's mental health difficulties had much deeper roots.

[lookout]

I agree Lookout but I would suggest that June may have already had coping difficulties, while it is very traumatic and life changing for some women to be told they will never have a child I do believe we are either genetically disposed to mental breakdown or genetically disposed to stand up and fight when we are faced with such trauma.  I would guess June's mental health difficulties had much deeper roots.

Maggie,I can't imagine a situation like that at all,nor contemplate on my reactions. I don't think anyone can. Then you have Sheila's situation with loss. Both are bound to have lasting problems and being in the " wrong " environment would exacerbate both problems,as what happened.

[maggie]

Remember too that Sheila suffered losses through abortion and miscarriage. Is this something that a woman gets over easily ? NO ! The loss of lives in Sheila's case was bound to have had an impact on her life,she wouldn't have been human otherwise. All those babies gone,but in Sheila's mind,never forgotten and she had to also carry these thoughts as well as everything else that happened in her life.

June's illness had NOTHING whatsoever to do with either Sheila or Jeremy.Her coping mechanism wasn't prepared in bringing up two children. A lot of mothers can't cope with their own flesh and blood let alone those who've been adopted,so blaming Sheila and Jeremy for June's ill-health is unfounded. Had she have been a mentally fit woman,she'd have managed like everyone else does.
I can only expect that someone like RWB would have come out with a nonsense such as he said.

True but also the process of baby adoption can be significant to some and to some extent this also appears to be linked to the genetic coping skills of the individual.   Some adult adoptees live with feelings of rejection and abandonment which they never heal from while others cope very well with their primal wound.  I don't believe the inability to cope is always connected to the adoptees experience of adoption but is often connected to their particular genetic makeup.  It may well have been that Sheila just couldn't deal with her strong feelings of loss and abandonment, Jeremy claimed he could but we will never know the answer to that and he may never really know himself.