The kitchen window

[lookout]

True but also the process of baby adoption can be significant to some and to some extent this also appears to be linked to the genetic coping skills of the individual.   Some adult adoptees live with feelings of rejection and abandonment which they never heal from while others cope very well with their primal wound.  I don't believe the inability to cope is always connected to the adoptees experience of adoption but is often connected to their particular genetic makeup.  It may well have been that Sheila just couldn't deal with her strong feelings of loss and abandonment, Jeremy claimed he could but we will never know the answer to that and he may never really know himself.

I think dependent on what happens in your life when the feelings of loss and abandonment become evident,it will come to the fore,but in the rare circumstances where life sails along nicely,they won't. It does depend how strong a person is and Jeremy has that quality which obviously springs from his birth father ( genetically ) plus the stamina and staying power from Neville.
I imagine on Jeremy's release he won't be feeling anything as things will be happening at such a break-neck speed he won't have time to think.

[zoe]

I think dependent on what happens in your life when the feelings of loss and abandonment become evident,it will come to the fore,but in the rare circumstances where life sails along nicely,they won't. It does depend how strong a person is and Jeremy has that quality which obviously springs from his birth father ( genetically ) plus the stamina and staying power from Neville.
I imagine on Jeremy's release he won't be feeling anything as things will be happening at such a break-neck speed he won't have time to think.

Correct again

[maggie]

I think dependent on what happens in your life when the feelings of loss and abandonment become evident,it will come to the fore,but in the rare circumstances where life sails along nicely,they won't. It does depend how strong a person is and Jeremy has that quality which obviously springs from his birth father ( genetically ) plus the stamina and staying power from Neville.
I imagine on Jeremy's release he won't be feeling anything as things will be happening at such a break-neck speed he won't have time to think.

I don't believe it's about strength and coping, baby adoption and it's aftermath is far more complex than that from my own observation and experience.  'Coping' is not always healthy, and can cause mental ill health and breakdown.  Nothing is simple imo.
We don't know if either of Jeremy's natural parents were mentally strong anymore than we know whether either of Sheila's natural parents carried genetics for mental health illness or vice versa.
 

[lookout]

The kitchen window could be the answer to Jeremy's prayers.

[Reader]

Source for where Jeremy said he used that hacksaw on that window that night? Otherwise it's irrelevant.

What night ? He said it was his and he used to use it to gain access into WHF through the bathroom window.

No, he didn't.

[Adam]

What night ? He said it was his and he used to use it to gain access into WHF through the bathroom window.
No, he didn't.

Yes he did.

[lookout]

Nope !

[Adam]

Judges summing up:


Jeremy said he had used the found hacksaw to gain access to WHF after the murders to get documentation.  Was this correct or had he gained entry on the murder night ?

Source Wilkes's book.

[guest7363]

What night ? He said it was his and he used to use it to gain access into WHF through the bathroom window.
No, he didn't.

Bamber and his defence admitted that he had made marks to the bathroom/loo window and had been made with a thin blade.  Bamber claimed they were made after the murders, so the only thing that's questioned was the date. they don't or I can't find where they deny using the hacksaw blade or I can't find where he admits using it?

It was the defence case, revealed for the first time at trial, that the appellant made those marks following his release after Police interview on or about 16 September upon his return from London having forgotten his keys

it is possible he did it on purpose to create the excuse that such could have been after the murders. 

[Jane]

Bamber and his defence admitted that he had made marks to the bathroom/loo window and had been made with a thin blade.  Bamber claimed they were made after the murders, so the only thing that's questioned was the date. they don't or I can't find where they deny using the hacksaw blade or I can't find where he admits using it?

It was the defence case, revealed for the first time at trial, that the appellant made those marks following his release after Police interview on or about 16 September upon his return from London having forgotten his keys

it is possible he did it on purpose to create the excuse that such could have been after the murders.

An interesting point you raise there, Justice. I wonder how many of us, knowing ourselves to be a suspect in a murder case, would have risked entering the property by any way OTHER than legal channels, however difficult that may have proved. He could even have told the police in advance if there was no other way of doing it.

[Roch]

Bamber and his defence admitted that he had made marks to the bathroom/loo window and had been made with a thin blade.  Bamber claimed they were made after the murders, so the only thing that's questioned was the date. they don't or I can't find where they deny using the hacksaw blade or I can't find where he admits using it?

It was the defence case, revealed for the first time at trial, that the appellant made those marks following his release after Police interview on or about 16 September upon his return from London having forgotten his keys

it is possible he did it on purpose to create the excuse that such could have been after the murders.

This should now be put to bed.  It is now claimed that during the interviewing of Robert Boutflour by COLP  in 1991, it was discussed that PI MIller had disregarded the relatives' theories about entering / leaving via windows.  PI Miller had expressed 'police sophisticated equipment had not detected such tampering'.

Therefore, Bamber would merely be trying to cover evidence of tampering - that he hadn't committed in the first place?

What's the betting that this was formerly PII COLP material?

[Caroline]

This should now be put to bed.  It is now claimed that during the interviewing of Robert Boutflour by COLP  in 1991, it was discussed that PI MIller had disregarded the relatives' theories about entering / leaving via windows.  PI Miller had expressed 'police sophisticated equipment had not detected such tampering'.

Therefore, Bamber would merely be trying to cover evidence of tampering - that he hadn't committed in the first place?

What's the betting that this was formerly PII COLP material?

Claimed or proven?

[Steve_uk]

What was this sophisticated equipment?

[lookout]

A ruler and a peuce-lead pencil.

[Roch]

Claimed or proven?

The excerpt begins at 3.34 in the latest video.  Unless they are now forging old typed documents, my money is on it being provable that it was recorded in 1991 as having been discussed in 1985. Whether it is then 'proven' further might depend upon Bob Miller's credentials in the early stages of the case, when Sheila was a suspect.  For example - perhaps he said it just to curb RB's enquiries or perhaps he said it because it actually did happen in the early stages of the case.  If the latter, my guess would be it was ferreted away in the original case file for four murders & one suicide.