Lawyers for Jeffrey MacDonald, Back In Court Filing to Overturn 1979 Conviction

[nugnug]

why does discusion of other cases allways change into a discusion of jeremy bamber.

[nugnug]

https://youtu.be/5yd7ltZIqFs

[nugnug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnvr0c5ZofY

[nugnug]

fatal vision.

https://youtu.be/e-HhvxI9RDE

[Steve_uk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnvr0c5ZofY

That's very interesting nugnug and certainly the possibility of a retrial if they can bring all those witnesses together, albeit much of their testimony being hearsay.

[Caroline]

I doubt this could have inspired Jeremy since the guy got caught.

There is more evidence against Macdonald than there is Bamber

So did Bamber - he couldn't have been inspired by someone who got away with it could he? 

There is only more evidence because he was still in the premises at the time - Bamber refined the plan and made sure he was elsewhere and gave himself time to 'clean up'.

[Caroline]

well for me its macdonald story about the hippys that makes me think he did it.

i mean kill the pigs hippys dident really say things like that.

and how the hell did they get in and out of there without being seen

Macgonald was obviously influenced by the Charles Manson Family - they wrote 'Death to pigs' on the fridge in Leno LaBianca's blood after they killed him. The movie 'Helter Skelter' based on Vincent Bugliosi's (the prosecuting lawyer in the Manson case) book, came out in 1976 so is a possible influence as far as the 'hippy' theme goes.

[Steve_uk]

Macgonald was obviously influenced by the Charles Manson Family - they wrote 'Death to pigs' on the fridge in Leno LaBianca's blood after they killed him. The movie 'Helter Skelter' based on Vincent Bugliosi's (the prosecuting lawyer in the Manson case) book, came out in 1976 so is a possible influence as far as the 'hippy' theme goes.

Wasn't there a reference to acid and the Devil in a copy of Esquire magazine in the living room? I can't decide whether the crime was premeditated or spontaneous-I think it started with a row in the bedroom and escalated from there. I can't understand all this anecdotal evidence and Helena Stoeckley had been a Police informant so they must have thought her valuable before this crime.

[David1819]

So did Bamber

Was he caught or was he framed? 

So did Bamber - he couldn't have been inspired by someone who got away with it could he? 

Of course he could, Lizzie Borden and Bodkin Adams are well known inheritance killers that got away

There is only more evidence because he was still in the premises at the time - Bamber refined the plan and made sure he was elsewhere and gave himself time to 'clean up'.

If Jeffrey Macdonald is guilty he never had a plan. He got into a domestic row while on prescription drugs and lost it, then when he realised what had happened he made up a story. There was no motive for him in the first place. However there was motive for the three hippies, Jeffrey Macdoanld was a military doctor and would sell hippies drugs he had access to. Jeffrey Macdonald not long before the murder refused to sell them any more drugs.

Unlike the Bamber case there is some evidence against Macdonald but its extremely flimsy.

1.It was raining that night but there was a lack of muddy shoe prints on the carpet by the door
2.Punchure marks in the Pajama top do not match his story
3.His wounds were not fatal

All in all I would not have found Macdonald guilty even thou I think he could be

Reason being

1.according to Macdonald the female hippie was holding and candle and they actually found drops of candle wax on the carpet
2. A girl who was seen in that General area at the time claims she was that girl and can describe parts of the crime in some detail
3. Several doctors felt it would have been very difficult for Macdonald to have collapsed his own lung via stabbing himself



 

[Steve_uk]

Was he caught or was he framed? 

Of course he could, Lizzie Borden and Bodkin Adams are well known inheritance killers that got away


If Jeffrey Macdonald is guilty he never had a plan. He got into a domestic row while on prescription drugs and lost it, then when he realised what had happened he made up a story. There was no motive for him in the first place. However there was motive for the three hippies, Jeffrey Macdoanld was a military doctor and would sell hippies drugs he had access to. Jeffrey Macdonald not long before the murder refused to sell them any more drugs.

Unlike the Bamber case there is some evidence against Macdonald but its extremely flimsy.

1.It was raining that night but there was a lack of muddy shoe prints on the carpet by the door
2.Punchure marks in the Pajama top do not match his story
3.His wounds were not fatal

All in all I would not have found Macdonald guilty even thou I think he could be

Reason being

1.according to Macdonald the female hippie was holding and candle and they actually found drops of candle wax on the carpet
2. A girl who was seen in that General area at the time claims she was that girl and can describe parts of the crime in some detail
3. Several doctors felt it would have been very difficult for Macdonald to have collapsed his own lung via stabbing himself

Whichever video you believe there are peculiarities in the case and you have highlighted some of them above. Macdonald had probably been selling drugs to military personnel which top brass wanted to cover up-hence he was released after the first trial. His behaviour post-murders aroused suspicion, similar to Bamber's. He seemed to be quick -tempered and just snapped when he came home and found his daughter had wet the bed. A real tragedy and not premeditated in my view.

[Adam]

Was he caught or was he framed? 

Of course he could, Lizzie Borden and Bodkin Adams are well known inheritance killers that got away


If Jeffrey Macdonald is guilty he never had a plan. He got into a domestic row while on prescription drugs and lost it, then when he realised what had happened he made up a story. There was no motive for him in the first place. However there was motive for the three hippies, Jeffrey Macdoanld was a military doctor and would sell hippies drugs he had access to. Jeffrey Macdonald not long before the murder refused to sell them any more drugs.

Unlike the Bamber case there is some evidence against Macdonald but its extremely flimsy.

1.It was raining that night but there was a lack of muddy shoe prints on the carpet by the door
2.Punchure marks in the Pajama top do not match his story
3.His wounds were not fatal

All in all I would not have found Macdonald guilty even thou I think he could be

Reason being

1.according to Macdonald the female hippie was holding and candle and they actually found drops of candle wax on the carpet
2. A girl who was seen in that General area at the time claims she was that girl and can describe parts of the crime in some detail
3. Several doctors felt it would have been very difficult for Macdonald to have collapsed his own lung via stabbing himself

Yes there is no evidence against Bamber. Which is why he has been in jail for 30 years and couldn't even get past the CCRC in 2012.

I posted 25 pieces of circumstantial evidence this week. Which you agreed with as you could only answer by mentioning Sheila to try to incriminate her.

There are also over a hundred pieces of forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila. Which means it was Bamber. All in the library.

You didn't answer my question this week, after you said 12pm - 2am was not the perfect/only execution period Bamber had. Please do. Or feel free to post on the thread on this.

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7479.msg352584.html#msg352584

[sandra L]

What an interesting case - I only know what's been posted here, I'd never heard of it before.

Does anyone know if DNA testing on the pyjama top upheld or undermined the prosecution's narrative about the various movements of the family members? I watched Fatal Vision, and it seems the original trial depended on blood typing, rather than DNA testing which wasn't available (or at least, not advanced enough) at the time.

Also, according to Fatal Vision, he was due for parole in 1991 - does anyone know why he's gone over tariff by so many years?

One more question - there appear to be two different explanations for the "flying into a rage" theory - the first is that his daughter wet the bed, the other is that he and his wife were having a row, and he snapped. I haven't seen anywhere a suggestion that he and his wife were rowing over him losing his temper because of the bed wetting. Can anyone clarify which theory the prosecution actually used, and was there ever any evidence of violence within the marriage prior to that night?

[David1819]

What an interesting case - I only know what's been posted here, I'd never heard of it before.

Does anyone know if DNA testing on the pyjama top upheld or undermined the prosecution's narrative about the various movements of the family members? I watched Fatal Vision, and it seems the original trial depended on blood typing, rather than DNA testing which wasn't available (or at least, not advanced enough) at the time.

Also, according to Fatal Vision, he was due for parole in 1991 - does anyone know why he's gone over tariff by so many years?

One more question - there appear to be two different explanations for the "flying into a rage" theory - the first is that his daughter wet the bed, the other is that he and his wife were having a row, and he snapped. I haven't seen anywhere a suggestion that he and his wife were rowing over him losing his temper because of the bed wetting. Can anyone clarify which theory the prosecution actually used, and was there ever any evidence of violence within the marriage prior to that night?

Many of your questions should be answered in the this documentary nugnug posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnvr0c5ZofY

I believe his sentence ends when he is 150 or something 

[David1819]

Yes there is no evidence against Bamber. Which is why he has been in jail for 30 years and couldn't even get past the CCRC in 2012.

I posted 25 pieces of circumstantial evidence this week. Which you agreed with as you could only answer but mentioning Sheila to try to incriminate her.

There are also over a hundred pieces of forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila. Which means it was Bamber. All in the library.

You didn't answer my question this week, after you said 12pm - 2am was not the perfect/only execution period Bamber had. Please do. Or feel free to post on the thread on this.

Police found no evidence against Jeremy. Police concluded it was Shelia (Twice)

The only evidence against Jeremy was "discovered" by the relatives and all of this evidence has been discredited.