Author Topic: What makes Bamber innocent?  (Read 348289 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #375 on: May 03, 2016, 08:30:PM »
I don't think so, because looking at the bigger picture, rather than the one everyone is trying to throw up in their imagination of blood streaming from the first neck wound as Sheila ran or walked or crept stealthily upstairs to the bedroom. I don't for one minute think that that was what happened. I shall tell you why. If that had been the case, Sheila would have ended upstairs before cops finally got upstairs to find the other three bodies (as per the police message log version of the location and distribution of bodies, found downstairs, and upstairs - two down, three up). Lets just say that Sheila got shot downstairs in the kitchen at just fractionally before 7.37am. In Jeremys version of events Sheila shot herself at this time. Of course he is absolutely wrong about this, but I will leave him and those who are representing his interests at the moment to their own pleasure. pursuing that angle will not succeed because the rifle she is supposed to have used to shoot herself, where does J and his followers say the gun was at the time she got shot downstairs in the kitchen at lets say 7.37am? It was at the bedroom window upstairs at the time Sheila got shot in the kitchen, so how did she get the rifle from upstairs without anyone seeing her get the gun from the window, take it downstairs and shoot herself with it? She didn't, so thats Jeremys account out of the window, so to speak. Sheila was shot downstairs for sure. Hers was the female body mentioned in the police message logs. Hers was the 'suicide' before 7.45am. Hers was 'not' one of the other three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am...

So, lets look at it logically, Sheila's body is the female referred to in the police message logs found downstairs in the kitchen along with dads body from as early as 7.37am. We know because the contents of the same police message logs, that Sheila's body was 'not' upstairs by 8.10am, otherwise it would have been reported in the message passed at 8.10am, that a further four bodies had been found upstairs. So, we have Sheila downstairs in the kitchen, presumed shot dead during a struggle with the cop over control and possession of the cops gun. In any event, she is shot and declared to be dead downstairs in the kitchen, shot once. Cops called her death a suicide, because she appeared to pull the muzzle of the cops gun in toward her own throat when the gun discharged a solitary shot. In any event, by 7.37am, she is presumed dead, and does not move, does not appear to be breathing, appears not to have a heartbeat, and not showing signs of distress and pain as a result of being shot in the neck. She remains laid on the kitchen floor in this way for another 30 minutes or so. She is laid on her back. Very little blood oozed from the wound to her neck. She fell on top of pooled blood in the kitchen which stained the back of her nightdress. Within ten minutes the bullet entry wound in her throat began to coagulate and formed a natural plug preventing any trapped blood inside her throat in the track of the bullet spilling out when she did eventually regain consciousness and get to her feet. When she stood upright, there was no fresh blood running down her neck onto either her body or her nightdress. There was only a very feint vertically inclined blood flow which ran down her neck which had dried by the time so got back to her feet. She was therefore in this state and this condition able to make the journey from the kitchen downstairs via the spiral stair situated in the corner of the kitchen which took her up onto the main landing and her parents bedroom door. It was just coincidental that no cop saw her, because they had all gone back downstairs via the main staircase at the front of the farmhouse, and as I say just by chance there was nobody to see her arrive upstairs, nobody saw her enter the bedroom, and nobody so her collapse onto her parents bed. In fact, nobody knew that anything had gone wrong with the police operation until senior cops entered the kitchen after the all clear had been given at 8.10am, with five bodies accounted for (two down, three up)...

By 8.15am, certainly that ratio (two down, three up) had changed into one down four up, but cops did not ascertain this until about 8.30am. For around 15 minutes it was bedlam inside the farmhouse, with cops 'not knowing' of the whereabouts of an injured, crazed killer, possibly now armed with one of the many weapons to hand elsewhere downstairs in the farmhouse. During those 15 minutes senior officers found themselves trapped inside the kitchen, 'unarmed'.They had to take precautions by barricading themselves in. They shoved a wooden chair against the inner door that led to the back passageway to prevent Sheila coming back into the kitchen via that door. The effects of this can be seen in PC Birds crime scene photographs...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 08:31:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #376 on: May 03, 2016, 08:49:PM »
What I would ask you to bear in mind in addition to what I am saying, is that Professor Knight had seen photographs of Sheila's body, the extent of her injuries, and the condition of her nightdress, and directional blood flow on her body and the aforementioned nightdress, yet at one stage he testified to the fact that in his expert opinion it might have been possible for Sheila to have been shot on the first occasion, and that she could have moved around for half an hour before she might collapse if she had not received the second fatal shot which effectively killed her immediately. Think about what Professor Knight testified about. Basically put he was advocating the two shots possibly being as long as 30 minutes a part, not consecutively inflicted as in recoil. I found his testimony very helpful, because understanding what he was trying to say made complete sense to me, to explain the delay in between Sheila having been shot downstairs in the kitchen at 7.37am, she laying on the kitchen floor for about 30 minutes as if dead, regaining consciousness, getting to her feet and making her way upstairs to the bed in her parents bedroom. Collapsing on the bed with only one shot in her throat on the verge of death, but not quite dead. I think Knight got it almost spot on, except for the fact that Sheila had not been running amok for half an hour after she had been shot downstairs. She didn't run amok, the contents of the police message log tell us this. She laid there on the kitchen floor for about 30 minutes, then  got up briefly made her way to the bed in her parents bedroom and collapsed just like Knight said he thought she might do...

Armed with the testimony of Professor knight and against a backdrop of the police message log contents which had two bodies downstairs and three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, versus the police witness statement versions which had one body downstairs and four bodies upstairs, I was able to reconstruct what 'had' taken place, enabling one version to change into the other version of events, with Sheila shot and mistakenly believed to be dead right at the heart of the matter. Laying on the kitchen floor as if dead for around 30 minutes - that is how I untangled the truth in this convoluted operation / investigation...

Understanding 'the sequence of events', paid off again...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 08:52:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

John

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #377 on: May 04, 2016, 08:49:AM »
What I would ask you to bear in mind in addition to what I am saying, is that Professor Knight had seen photographs of Sheila's body, the extent of her injuries, and the condition of her nightdress, and directional blood flow on her body and the aforementioned nightdress, yet at one stage he testified to the fact that in his expert opinion it might have been possible for Sheila to have been shot on the first occasion, and that she could have moved around for half an hour before she might collapse if she had not received the second fatal shot which effectively killed her immediately. Think about what Professor Knight testified about. Basically put he was advocating the two shots possibly being as long as 30 minutes a part, not consecutively inflicted as in recoil. I found his testimony very helpful, because understanding what he was trying to say made complete sense to me, to explain the delay in between Sheila having been shot downstairs in the kitchen at 7.37am, she laying on the kitchen floor for about 30 minutes as if dead, regaining consciousness, getting to her feet and making her way upstairs to the bed in her parents bedroom. Collapsing on the bed with only one shot in her throat on the verge of death, but not quite dead. I think Knight got it almost spot on, except for the fact that Sheila had not been running amok for half an hour after she had been shot downstairs. She didn't run amok, the contents of the police message log tell us this. She laid there on the kitchen floor for about 30 minutes, then  got up briefly made her way to the bed in her parents bedroom and collapsed just like Knight said he thought she might do...

Armed with the testimony of Professor knight and against a backdrop of the police message log contents which had two bodies downstairs and three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, versus the police witness statement versions which had one body downstairs and four bodies upstairs, I was able to reconstruct what 'had' taken place, enabling one version to change into the other version of events, with Sheila shot and mistakenly believed to be dead right at the heart of the matter. Laying on the kitchen floor as if dead for around 30 minutes - that is how I untangled the truth in this convoluted operation / investigation...

Understanding 'the sequence of events', paid off again...

Absolute tosh,  we have all seen the photos of Sheila lying there with the two wounds to her neck and trails of blood emanating from them.  NO SMEARING WHATSOEVER.  Sheila was out of it from the first shot, had she been conscious her finger tips and neck would have been covered in blood smears. I don't know what photos Prof Knight was referring to but it certainly wasn't the very first ones taken.

Your version of events is not consistent with the evidence, rather, it is your own interpretation of events based on your need to believe that Sheila committed suicide.  I prefer to keep to the evidence and the forensics which are abundant in this case.  Sheila never shot anyone including herself!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:55:AM by John »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #378 on: May 04, 2016, 08:59:AM »
If we examine the photograph of the blood running from the upper wound on Sheila's neck, and the corners of her mouth, you 'can see' these 'plugs of coagulated blood', which have become 'detached' upon different parts of her throat. This is 'evidence' that her head had been moved 'vigorously' about prior to the people who moved her body around into that final position. The upper bullet wound, for example, had clearly already been plugged by the time PC Bird (soco) took the said photograph, but the plug had become detached, possibly as many times as twice. Have a look, the evidence is all there in the photograph. Considering that it takes about 15 minutes for blood to coagulate, and dare I say it, for a wound to form 'a plug'', added to the fact that uncoagulated blood can still be seen to be oozing from the top wound and her mouth, blood which had previously been trapped behind the aforementioned 'detached' plug, provides a clue, not only to the timing of the victims death, but is testimony to the fact that the people who are responsible for killing her, moved her head and possibly her body around before she was placed into that final position...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:07:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

John

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #379 on: May 04, 2016, 09:20:AM »
If we examine the photograph of the blood running from the upper wound on Sheila's neck, and the corners of her mouth, you 'can see' these 'plugs of coagulated blood', which have become 'detached' upon different parts of her throat. This is 'evidence' that her head had been moved 'vigorously' about prior to the people who moved her body around into that final position. The upper bullet wound, for example, had clearly already been plugged by the time PC Bird (soco) took the said photograph, but the plug had become detached, possibly as many times as twice. Have a look, the evidence is all there in the photograph. Considering that it takes about 15 minutes for blood to coagulate, and dare I say it, for a wound to form 'a plug'', added to the fact that uncoagulated blood can still be seen to be oozing from the top wound and her mouth, blood which had previously been trapped behind the aforementioned 'detached' plug, provides a clue, not only to the timing of the victims death, but is testimony to the fact that the people who are responsible for killing her, moved her head and possibly her body around before she was placed into that final position...

At least you got most of that right.  Her head was forward before being pushed back thus the mirror image of both wounds in blood.  The only person responsible for killing her was the intruder/gunman.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:21:AM by John »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #380 on: May 04, 2016, 09:33:AM »
By reference to the above image, everyone can see that the people responsible for staging her body, caused her head to move significantly on at least 'two' separate occasions by reference to the 'duplicated 'plugs of blood' from the wounds, displaced onto other parts of her throat...

The 'displacement of these plugged clots of blood, is duplicated around and from 'both' bullet wounds, features which 'could not' have occurred until in the first instance, at least 15 minutes of the upper shot being inflicted, followed by a period of 'stillness in which the head had remained stationary for a period greater than 15 minutes', before the head was moved again, resulting in the 'detachment' of a secondary 'plug' to a different part of the throat (as seen in the image). Finally, the people responsible for staging her body moved her again, leaving it as shown in the image...

What is not known, albeit it becomes possible to 'estimate' the time these biological transformations took place in keeping with the described 'events, how long the victims head had been 'resting' in each position, what we do know is that it takes around 15 minutes for blood to fully coagulate and form a proper plug of the wound. This is interesting because Sheila received the fatal shot beneath the chin at precisely 9.13am. The photograph showing these 'features was taken at 10 O'clock' that morning by PC Bird...

What we do not know is the exact position and angle her head was in at the time she was fatally shot, we only know that there were two distinctive and highly significant movements of her head involving two periods of at least 15 minutes or so, in between these movements to enable coagulation to have developed, and that after the people who are responsible for staging her death scene had put her into this final position, she had not been laid in that position very long at all, before along came PC Bird (soco) to take 'this' photograph. The blood shown running across her neck is blood which had been trapped behind the plugs of clotted blood detached upon other parts of the neck. The fresh looking blood has clearly not yet fully coagulated, but the process can be seen to have begun by a slight presence of the coagulating feature along the edges of the blood flow - this informs me that PC Bird took this image within minutes of the other cops having moved her body and repositioned it at least on three separate occasions...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:50:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #381 on: May 04, 2016, 09:56:AM »
A presence of the slight coagulating feature in the flow of blood,  indicates that the visible blood had only been running from the wound minutes beforehand, certainly not 15 minutes otherwise it would have fully coagulated, in keeping with how this had occurred by reference to photographs taken after this one...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #382 on: May 04, 2016, 09:58:AM »
The barrel of the rifle cannot have been in the position shown at the time of these movements...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #383 on: May 04, 2016, 10:04:AM »
Pity there isn't a photograph of her neck and surrounding area cleaned up.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #384 on: May 04, 2016, 10:10:AM »
Any cop worth his weight in dodgy pocketbook entries should have known that if cops found Sheila's body like this that she could not have killed herself and the body end up like this 'two and a half hours' after cops allegedly found her body...

If the flow of blood looked like this, two and a half hours after cops originally found her body, shot in the neck, then why is it that this flow of blood has not yet fully coagulated? It only takes blood 15 minutes to coagulate, yet here is an image taken two and a half hours after cops entered the farmhouse, and 'it has not' coagulated fully. This is odd considering that the victim is laid on her back with the wounds high up in that position of her body in the photograph. Cops shot Sheila. Cops staged her body. There is no other party responsible for killing her. She did not kill herself, and her brother Jeremy could not possibly have done what cops have done, and did...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #385 on: May 04, 2016, 10:34:AM »
Pity there isn't a photograph of her neck and surrounding area cleaned up.

That is a good point...

The blood shown on her neck in this image cannot have looked like this when cops found her body. The blood in this image cannot have been like this when the police surgeon, Dr Craig pronounced her as being dead at 8.44am, in the presence of 'Bob' Miller. The blood shown in this image cannot have looked like this when PS Adams viewed her body minus the gun at 9 O'clock, or when DS 'Stan' Jones saw Sheila's body on the bed sporting a single bullet wound after 9.05am ( he told Annie Eaton this when he saw her later that morning). The blood on her neck in this image was not present in the images cops took of Sheila's body 'on the bed' because she hadn't been shot under the chin by that stage. Since the time that DCI 'Taff' Jones and DS 'Stan' Jones did not arrive at the scene until around 9.05am, and the time the second shot got inflicted at 9.13am, the timing at which the images of Sheila's body on the bed can now be identified at being taken moments either side of, and inclusive of 9.10am. The fact that 'Stan' Jones has gone on record as describing what Sheila looked like when he had seen her body, as though she was 'just sleeping, so peacefully', does not befit the image shown in this photograph (shown). However, if you could imagine all the flowing blood from the upper wound and the corner of her mouth, nostril and pooled into her left eye socket, it paints the picture 'Stan' Jones was talking about. In the images of Sheila on the bed you can barely see any blood flow from the only bullet wound on her throat. There is no blood running from the corners of her mouth, or nostril. There is no blood pooled in her left eye socket. There is no triangular bloodstain on the upper right hand side of her nightdress. Above waistline Sheila 'does look like she is just sleeping', and the reason for that is because at 'that' stage, she was 'still barely' alive, not yet the recipient of the shot beneath the chin...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #386 on: May 04, 2016, 10:57:AM »
Then...

A 'badly fragmented bullet' no less (PV/20) that 'grew' into a 'whole bullet, to enable Fletch' to confirm that it had been loaded and fired via the rifle that was leaning against the bedroom window, at the same precise moment that Sheila was being shot diagonally across the throat in the kitchen downstairs...

As if by 'magic' the badly fragmented bullet just grew and grew until it became whole again...

According to the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, this bullet (PV/20) was ' whole bullet', that was from the first shot diagonally across Sheila's neck - it weighs 26.46 gr...

Whereas, according to the pathologist, 'Peter Venezis', the bullet fired diagonally across Sheila's neck had become badly fragmented, had broken into a multitude of different pieces. A fact borne out by the X-ray image taken before part of the bullet was removed during autopsy...

The bullet in this image, sure don't look like a whole bullet to me. Perhaps, I'm missing something...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 11:07:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #387 on: May 04, 2016, 11:10:AM »
What I want to know is, 'how the ballistic expert, Fletcher, matched the lands and grooves, and striation marks on this piece of a bullet, to the same on the control ammunition, fired from the anshuzt rifle during test fire and comparison tests...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #388 on: May 04, 2016, 11:20:AM »
One thing must be 'absolutely clear' to anybody viewing this image, and that is that 'Sheila had not been shot and killed seven hours before this photograph was taken' after 10 am, that morning. Surely to god, how could this be possible?

Yes?

No?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 11:21:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #389 on: May 04, 2016, 11:41:AM »
https://youtu.be/mmCART1vcCo

You're posting a lot today Mike.

Did you get any feedback from Jeremy or lawyers about the police framing of Jeremy ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.