Author Topic: Jeremy's Character  (Read 4863 times)

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Offline JackiePreece

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Jeremy's Character
« on: March 27, 2016, 08:28:PM »
I have recently seen it posted that Jeremy would often get out of a car and walk home 20 miles rather than be in a confrontational argument

Quite a good trait I would say along with his dislike of blood sports
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2016, 03:53:PM »
I have recently seen it posted that Jeremy would often get out of a car and walk home 20 miles rather than be in a confrontational argument

Quite a good trait I would say along with his dislike of blood sports
I don't have the books in front of me and cannot recall the occupants of the vehicle, but I have heard this before, though I think it was only on the one occasion. He must have stored the bitterness inside in a state of quiescent rage, vowing revenge one day, and I am once again reminded of the Jubilee photo where this young boy seemed uncertain of his place, unable to emulate Nevill yet unsure of June, who in the next few years would relapse into a religious mania which removed his only buttress against a hostile outside world as she too excoriated him for his lifestyle choices.

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2016, 04:11:PM »
I don't have the books in front of me and cannot recall the occupants of the vehicle, but I have heard this before, though I think it was only on the one occasion. He must have stored the bitterness inside in a state of quiescent rage, vowing revenge one day, and I am once again reminded of the Jubilee photo where this young boy seemed uncertain of his place, unable to emulate Nevill yet unsure of June, who in the next few years would relapse into a religious mania which removed his only buttress against a hostile outside world as she too excoriated him for his lifestyle choices.

Steve,  memory makes me think there was a row at a family party -at Wix?- and rather than wait for a lift(or because he was refused a lift?) he walked back. I believe I saw 19 miles quoted. I think there was another occasion when he removed himself from a car and finished a journey on foot. Certainly quiescent rage comes to mind.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2016, 04:18:PM »
Steve,  memory makes me think there was a row at a family party -at Wix?- and rather than wait for a lift(or because he was refused a lift?) he walked back. I believe I saw 19 miles quoted. I think there was another occasion when he removed himself from a car and finished a journey on foot. Certainly quiescent rage comes to mind.
Wasn't there an incident when Jeremy and Sheila were being shown round David and Karen's new house and Jeremy said: "You'll never be able to afford anything like this if you stay with Colin". I'm not saying this is significant as we all have family rows. I don't have an inner compass anyway so always had to bite my tongue in similar circumstances.

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 04:33:PM »
Wasn't there an incident when Jeremy and Sheila were being shown round David and Karen's new house and Jeremy said: "You'll never be able to afford anything like this if you stay with Colin". I'm not saying this is significant as we all have family rows. I don't have an inner compass anyway so always had to bite my tongue in similar circumstances.


OK, Steve, let's look at this a bit closer. The words MAY be apocryphal. Literary licence, perhaps. IF they were said, it must have been during the time Sheila was still with Colin, for them to have made sense. Given the age of the twins when they died and the length of time Sheila had been apart from him, it would have made Jeremy, probably, no more than 17/18 at the time. However, what I can't rule out is that he repeated, verbatim, what he's heard his parents say to her as they words far more likely to have been said by a concerned, if interfering, parent to their child, than by a younger brother.

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 04:45:PM »
I think that Jeremy was showing disdain towards CC more than he himself showing a bad attitude when it had been mentioned about Sheila never having such a property.
Afterall, CC did do well out of the Bambers--------for doing nothing as it was Sheila who was scratching around looking for money and a job.I'd have kicked him into touch alright. Why couldn't he have worked at the farm ? Neville would have given him a job.
I hate to see people leeching off others.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2016, 04:46:PM »

OK, Steve, let's look at this a bit closer. The words MAY be apocryphal. Literary licence, perhaps. IF they were said, it must have been during the time Sheila was still with Colin, for them to have made sense. Given the age of the twins when they died and the length of time Sheila had been apart from him, it would have made Jeremy, probably, no more than 17/18 at the time. However, what I can't rule out is that he repeated, verbatim, what he's heard his parents say to her as they words far more likely to have been said by a concerned, if interfering, parent to their child, than by a younger brother.
You know Jane I sometimes get the feeling that Jeremy is repeating things he heard from June, and maybe in fairness at seventeen years old in a light-hearted way. One recalls his remark to Roger Wilkes that it wasn't until 1978 that problems arose, though of course there is no further elucidation in any of the books on the case.  After her second illness June began moralizing again, affecting both Sheila and Jeremy, and maybe anyone in his position would reject what she was saying. The tragedy is that there were no roots as a family, no bond on which to fall back on of cheery, carefree times: just a void, wherefrom emanated the germination of an idea that all were incapacitated in some way and that meaningful life had ended for them,his justification for killing the twins being that they too would in time become affected by this void as had Jeremy in his turn. The practical side of him however, the Jeremy who had facts and figures to hand at the Osea Road board meetings was not going to run the risk of June leaving a substantial legacy to the Church, or of disinheriting him altogether, as he told Julie was his main concern.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:57:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2016, 04:53:PM »
I think that Jeremy was showing disdain towards CC more than he himself showing a bad attitude when it had been mentioned about Sheila never having such a property.
Afterall, CC did do well out of the Bambers--------for doing nothing as it was Sheila who was scratching around looking for money and a job.I'd have kicked him into touch alright. Why couldn't he have worked at the farm ? Neville would have given him a job.
I hate to see people leeching off others.
..and yet they never had a sense of entitlement,I don't think they were arguing over money but seemingly trivial things arising from Sheila's illness. You can't say Colin has been lazy since the murders-it looks to me like he's never had a day off in his life.

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 04:58:PM »
I think Jeremy was pretty close to his mother as it was she who Jeremy wrote to requesting more money when he was in NZ/Oz. As Steve's just said,Jeremy repeated a lot of what his mother used to say and probably put her first when it came to the " booting out " of JM,who June didn't like and also objected to her " living in sin". I'd imagine that June didn't think JM good enough for her son ( which happens a lot,even today ) and it's not often that a mother will get on with a daughter-in-law,so nothing new there.
I know it's soppy but he probably delighted as a kid when June was baking,hence his interest now when he thinks back.

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 05:04:PM »
..and yet they never had a sense of entitlement,I don't think they were arguing over money but seemingly trivial things arising from Sheila's illness. You can't say Colin has been lazy since the murders-it looks to me like he's never had a day off in his life.





Steve,a pity CC didn't have the same interest for working prior to the murders instead of leaving Sheila desperately worried as to where the next penny was coming from. He'd also had the twins to consider too. I can't believe that a man would allow a sick wife and mother to go looking for work and who ended up doing a bit of cleaning.
CC should have shown his worth soon after they'd married.It might have made a difference.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 05:09:PM »
I think Jeremy was pretty close to his mother as it was she who Jeremy wrote to requesting more money when he was in NZ/Oz. As Steve's just said,Jeremy repeated a lot of what his mother used to say and probably put her first when it came to the " booting out " of JM,who June didn't like and also objected to her " living in sin". I'd imagine that June didn't think JM good enough for her son ( which happens a lot,even today ) and it's not often that a mother will get on with a daughter-in-law,so nothing new there.
I know it's soppy but he probably delighted as a kid when June was baking,hence his interest now when he thinks back.
.. but so few incidents to look back on lookout, and the wasted eight years at Gresham's whereupon completion Jeremy was placed on the bottom rung again. This was not an inevitable crime, but a combination of greed and happenstance as June and Nevill deteriorated, yet insisting on maintaining the old family structure. With Sheila's hospitalization in March 1985 a new opportunity presented itself to Jeremy, waiting as he was for an occasion when all would be gathered together under one roof.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 05:13:PM »




Steve,a pity CC didn't have the same interest for working prior to the murders instead of leaving Sheila desperately worried as to where the next penny was coming from. He'd also had the twins to consider too. I can't believe that a man would allow a sick wife and mother to go looking for work and who ended up doing a bit of cleaning.
CC should have shown his worth soon after they'd married.It might have made a difference.
Some people are not materialistic and others don't have a talent for making money. I'm not sure money would have made a difference to Sheila's illness in any case. Didn't he help his parents with their antiques business I read somewhere?

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 05:25:PM »
.. but so few incidents to look back on lookout, and the wasted eight years at Gresham's whereupon completion Jeremy was placed on the bottom rung again. This was not an inevitable crime, but a combination of greed and happenstance as June and Nevill deteriorated, yet insisting on maintaining the old family structure. With Sheila's hospitalization in March 1985 a new opportunity presented itself to Jeremy, waiting as he was for an occasion when all would be gathered together under one roof.






All hasn't been lost with Jeremy's education such as it was as he's enabled it to be turned into a more positive form by all the studying and learning that he's managed to do since those days. A study which is miles away from the norm but which will prove effective in his forthcoming release.

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 05:38:PM »
You know Jane I sometimes get the feeling that Jeremy is repeating things he heard from June, and maybe in fairness at seventeen years old in a light-hearted way. One recalls his remark to Roger Wilkes that it wasn't until 1978 that problems arose, though of course there is no further elucidation in any of the books on the case.  After her second illness June began moralizing again, affecting both Sheila and Jeremy, and maybe anyone in his position would reject what she was saying. The tragedy is that there were no roots as a family, no bond on which to fall back on of cheery, carefree times: just a void, wherefrom emanated the germination of an idea that all were incapacitated in some way and that meaningful life had ended for them,his justification for killing the twins being that they too would in time become affected by this void as had Jeremy in his turn. The practical side of him however, the Jeremy who had facts and figures to hand at the Osea Road board meetings was not going to run the risk of June leaving a substantial legacy to the Church, or of disinheriting him altogether, as he told Julie was his main concern.

Steve, many children emulate parents. We recognize it because adult "speak" sounds inappropriate when spoken by children. They take on an out of place superiority and arrogance when spoken by adolescents. It is said that imitation is the sincerest for of flattery. This is really all that children are doing and in so doing, there looking for approval. The more approval is withheld, the more the child will emulate/flatter.

 Children often take on the responsibility for a parent's well being. Let's suppose that shortly after a child has broken a precious ornament, it's mother is rushed into hospital, the breakage is no longer thought about, but the association, to the child, unless it's spelled out to the contrary, is that Mummy was ill because he/she had done something naughty. God forbid, should Mummy die, the guilt will stay with the child forever because A) No one has told them otherwise. WHAT broken ornament? and B) Because the "child" at whatever age will feel too ashamed to admit it was responsible for it's mother's death.

I'm categorically NOT saying that this was definitely the case with Jeremy and Sheila, but I well remember being told that children shouldn't be praised because it made them conceited. Such children are very likely to go to extra lengths to gain approval.

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Character
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 05:41:PM »
I think Jeremy was pretty close to his mother as it was she who Jeremy wrote to requesting more money when he was in NZ/Oz. As Steve's just said,Jeremy repeated a lot of what his mother used to say and probably put her first when it came to the " booting out " of JM,who June didn't like and also objected to her " living in sin". I'd imagine that June didn't think JM good enough for her son ( which happens a lot,even today ) and it's not often that a mother will get on with a daughter-in-law,so nothing new there.
I know it's soppy but he probably delighted as a kid when June was baking,hence his interest now when he thinks back.


All that says, Lookout, is that he may have imagined he'd had all he was going to get from Nevill.