EU Referendum

[Caroline]

I voted to stay. Seeing the EU as a gang, I can quite see why people join gangs. It's better than being the odd one out and being ganged up on. I see the disarray in Parliament as being a microcosm of what's going on nationally. Yes, there was a majority and although it was hardly close enough to call, morally, I guess it has to be adhered to. Trouble is, we were never asked what conditions we wanted to be applied. We were only asked if we wanted to leave or stay.

It's a mess, even now they don't have a plan.

[lookout]

I have a copy from one individual on the importance of staying in the EU. Written by none other than JB himself and believe you me it makes far more sense than what any politician has had to say.

[Caroline]

I have a copy from one individual on the importance of staying in the EU. Written by none other than JB himself and believe you me it makes far more sense than what any politician has had to say.

Well, I would prefer to stay in but  aman locked up as long as he has, is out of touch with the outside world and I think he may have more personal reasons for wishing to remain.

[Roch]

I was originally a narrow leave voter. On the cusp. I think that if all those who reluctantly claimed they would abide by the result had actually done so, we'd be in far better situation now.  Negotiating from a position of weakness and disarray has not only proved ineffective but has damaged our standing in the world. Theresa May was a disaterous shoehorn, forced upon us. She has damaged her own career reputation in the process, which was needless.

Corbyn, who was riding high in 2017, has come out of this very damaged; as a result of being forced to accommodate parliamentary party members who've shown bad faith.

The way to a 'good' deal was to all-out prepare for no- deal as early as possible.

Also, it's pathetic how we were drip fed patronising news that we were 'making progress' in negotiations, when no such progress was actually being made. Embarrassing, like something from the 1950's.

As for the Lib Dems.. Their blatant opportunism is sickening. They took a gamble in hoovering up the remain vote and it paid off. Prior to that, they were dead in the water.

As for Caroline Lucas.. Bizarre.

[Caroline]

I was originally a narrow leave voter. On the cusp. I think that if all those who reluctantly claimed they would abide by the result had actually done so, we'd be in far better situation now.  Negotiating from a position of weakness and disarray has not only proved ineffective but has damaged our standing in the world. Theresa May was a disaterous shoehorn, forced upon us. She has damaged her own career reputation in the process, which was needless.

Corbyn, who was riding high in 2017, has come out of this very damaged; as a result of being forced to accommodate parliamentary party members who've shown bad faith.

The way to a 'good' deal was to all-out prepare for no- deal as early as possible.

Also, it's pathetic how we were drip fed patronising news that we were 'making progress' in negotiations, when no such progress was actually being made. Embarrassing, like something from the 1950's.

As for the Lib Dems.. Their blatant opportunism is sickening. They took a gamble in hoovering up the remain vote and it paid off. Prior to that, they were dead in the water.

As for Caroline Lucas.. Bizarre.

They are abiding by the result - there was no time limit attached to the referendum question, nor was there anything to suggest HOW we would leave. At the moment Boris thinks he is playing a clever game by being seen to try and get a new deal. However, he knew fine well that he wouldn't be able to do so and will simply blame the EU when he comes back empty handed. We're still being drip fed bullshit - they still have no plan, even though they claim they do. It will be a mess - just wait for the panic buyers to hit the shops and for the violence to escalate in Northern Ireland. What price sovereignty? You certainly can't eat it! Interestingly, the word in Latin, it derived from the work 'superanus' - how ironic is that?

As for Corbyn, he should have stuck by his principles - that's the problem with politicians, they lose their principles as they rise up the chain!

Perhaps the lib dems can see that leaving the EU is suicide - previously I would never have voted for them but now there is no other option for me.

[David1819]

Out of the top five wealthiest countries in the world (according to the world bank) in terms of GDP nominal. Three of those five countries are European countries not in the EU. Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.

The mean GDP for all western,central and northern EU states is lower than those not in the Union.

Meanwhile Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and Cyprus have had to endure a sovereign debt crisis that is still not over. As a result of giving control of monetary policy to the EU Central Bank.

According to the International Monetary Fund only four other countries in the world have declined  economically more than Greece in the 10 years. Those are Libya, Yemen, Venezuela and Equatorial Guinea. This is how an EU member state is doing?

There are countries that while in the EU have ended up in shit creek without a paddle. Thus the EU being seen as an entity of good or something to be desired is myopic and misguided.

The EU only benefits two groups of people. Those of run it and investors in government bonds.

[Steve_uk]

Well, I would prefer to stay in but  aman locked up as long as he has, is out of touch with the outside world and I think he may have more personal reasons for wishing to remain.

He thinks he can get a better outcome from European judges if necessary than British ones.

[David1819]

He thinks he can get a better outcome from European judges if necessary than British ones.

We are not leaving the ECHR. Brexit won’t make any difference to him.

[Steve_uk]

We are not leaving the ECHR. Brexit won’t make any difference to him.

It's not certain, though I bow to your superior knowledge. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum

[David1819]

It's not certain, though I bow to your superior knowledge. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum

Well that article claims it has nothing to do with Brexit. 

[Steve_uk]

Well that article claims it has nothing to do with Brexit. 

So what? Once again your posts are pure conjecture, entertaining as they may be at times, faute de mieux.

[Caroline]

It's not certain, though I bow to your superior knowledge. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum

Think the point is that if we have sovereignty, we can make our own laws and choose to reject whatever we wish - including leaving the ECRH. 

[David1819]

So what? Once again your posts are pure conjecture, entertaining as they may be at times, faute de mieux.

What is your opinion on leaving the EU?

[Steve_uk]

What is your opinion on leaving the EU?

From a purely selfish point of view since I'm going to retire to Spain eventually the pound will be stronger if we remain.  But I can't agree with the EU structure so I'm a Brexiteer. If we're not careful we'll have the worst of both worlds: still paying in yet with no influence.

I agree with former Soviet leader Mikael Gorbachev:

The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.

[lookout]

Any particular part of Spain, Steve ?