Forensic evidence thread links incriminating Bamber, library :

[Jane]

He didn't collapse into a chair. He was found slumped with his head over a coal scuttle.

Why would Sheila stage the scene ? And was she strong enough to move Neville ?

He may have been FOUND slumped with his head over a coal scuttle, but unless he got there by accident or simple materialised into that position, he had to have been already seated. Maybe he was backed into the chair by whoever held the gun. Maybe, exhausted by pain, he stumbled into the chair. Maybe, whoever held the gun demanded that he sat there.

With the injuries and shock he'd already sustained, I simply don't believe him capable of putting up ANY sort of fight AFTER he sat in that chair.

[Adam]

Well. A) It isn't possible to see, from the pictures, the extent of facial injuries. B) With his face in a scuttle, it would be very difficult to inflict facial wounds. C) The appearance of the kitchen doesn't indicate -although it MAY suggest- that Nevill put up a tremendous fight.

It was two black eyes, a broken nose and bruised cheeks.

On his body there was bruising to the arms and wrists. Not caused by bullets.

[Jane]

It was two black eyes, a broken nose and bruised cheeks.

On his body there was bruising to the arms and wrists. Not caused by bullets.

Are you saying that all those wounds are clearly visible from a photographic copy of a photographic copy?

[Adam]

He may have been FOUND slumped with his head over a coal scuttle, but unless he got there by accident or simple materialised into that position, he had to have been already seated. Maybe he was backed into the chair by whoever held the gun. Maybe, exhausted by pain, he stumbled into the chair. Maybe, whoever held the gun demanded that he sat there.

With the injuries and shock he'd already sustained, I simply don't believe him capable of putting up ANY sort of fight AFTER he sat in that chair.

What chair ? He was found slumped over a coal scuttle.

Anyway, everyone agrees there was a kitchen fight. Rather than Neville collapsing onto a coal scuttle. Neville's pre death location injuries show this.

If he was moved into this position. Only Bamber would bother and be strong enough. Perhaps to burn his back.

[Adam]

Are you saying that all those wounds are clearly visible from a photographic copy of a photographic copy?

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

[Jane]

What chair ? He was found slumped over a coal scuttle.

Anyway, everyone agrees there was a kitchen fight. Rather than Neville collapsing onto a coal scuttle. Neville's pre death location injuries show this.

If he was moved into this position. Only Bamber would bother and be strong enough. Perhaps to burn his back.

With a chair behind him.

Who is this "everyone" who "agrees there was a kitchen fight"? Whilst the kitchen may have had that appearance -it was certainly disrupted- there is only speculation as to how it came to be in that state.

[zoe]

Dead bodies can bruise too, so thats worth looking into.

[Adam]

With a chair behind him.

Who is this "everyone" who "agrees there was a kitchen fight"? Whilst the kitchen may have had that appearance -it was certainly disrupted- there is only speculation as to how it came to be in that state.

Of course there was a kitchen fight.

Some supporters claim Neville got to the kitchen and then meekly collapsed over the coal scuttle. And then the raid team started smashing things and knocking things over.

However it was impossible to inflict Neville's severe facial and body injures in his position. And pointness doing it if he was not fighting back.

It's always been preposturous that the raid team caused all that mess.

Neville either landed over the coal scuttle during the fight and after getting the injuries. Or was moved there. Which only Bamber could/would do.  Either way, it wasn't Sheila who fought him as she did not have a mark on her.

[Jane]

Of course there was a kitchen fight.

Some supporters claim Neville got to the kitchen and then meekly collapsed over the coal scuttle. And then the raid team started smashing things and knocking things over.

However it was impossible to inflict Neville's severe facial and body injures in his position. And pointness doing it if he was not fighting back.

It's always been preposturous that the raid team caused all that mess.

Neville either landed over the coal scuttle during the fight. Or was moved there. Which only Bamber could/would do.  Either way, it wasn't Sheila who fought him as she did not have a mark on her.

I don't recall suggesting that it was Sheila. I agree that facial injuries couldn't be inflicted on anyone with their face in a downward position. However, there would certainly be a point of inflicting injury on someone who couldn't fight back, especially if there was deeply held resentment against that person. Sweet revenge, perhaps.

[sami]

something strange happened in the kitchen for the ceiling lampshade to get broken .someone had to be swinging an instrument for that to happen .'maybe the rifle' which had a chunk of stock missing.it may be possible that neville not being able to use both hands and arms to push the door closed to keep jb on the other side had moved a chair behind the door and sat in it

[Adam]

something strange happened in the kitchen for the ceiling lampshade to get broken .someone had to be swinging an instrument for that to happen .'maybe the rifle' which had a chunk of stock missing.it may be possible that neville not being able to use both hands and arms to push the door closed to keep jb on the other side had moved a chair behind the door and sat in it

The rifle was long enough for someone to use to reach and smash the ceiling light. Either on purpose or accidentially.

The raid team certainly wouldn't be waving a rifle above their heads.

[zoe]

depends how high the ceilings are, the raid team could have done it or sheila could have done it

[Adam]

depends how high the ceilings are, the raid team could have done it or sheila could have done it

You know it occurred during the kitchen fight. At the same time the aga paint was scratched. It's common sense.

I doubt any of the raid team raised their guns above their shoulder. Let alone swung it at a ceiling light. 

[Jane]

depends how high the ceilings are, the raid team could have done it or sheila could have done it

OR Jeremy could have done it to make it look as if a psychotic Sheila had done it.

[sami]

The rifle was long enough for someone to use to reach and smash the ceiling light. Either on purpose or accidentially.

The raid team certainly wouldn't be waving a rifle above their heads.

quite correct adam .i also think it was the rifle.thats the sure sign that some sort of fight took place there.if it was a fist fight no broken lampshade .if neville wasnt able to fight back no broken lampshade jb would have avoided it and took his time .the only way lampshade could break was in the heat of the moment during the fight.i must add IMO