Another MASSIVE Lie

[Jane]

I'd like to see the psychiatrist's report or at least a diagnosis for Jeremy's psychopathy, either in prison or before.  I'm sorry that you find my request for you to challenge your thinking condecending.  I am willing to go forth and challenge my own thinking if it makes you feel better if only someone would come up with Jeremy's theory of the crime and plan of action.   

Peace
Hoots!

It's OK Tom. I hold hold grudges   "Jeremy's theory of the crime and plan of action" was given by Julie and can be found in CAL's book which I can recommend. Much is made of Jeremy being regularly tested for psychopathy. I think the most he's given is the yearly "MOT" given to all prisoners. I'm not even certain that anyone would be too concerned about him being a psychopath any longer. As for a psych. report, I hazard a guess that it depends on who was the psychiatrist. Like doctors, they don't always agree with each other.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Caroline

I don’t doubt what you say about people having theorised Jeremy’s involvement in the case.  The problem is that forums are great for discussions but not for referencing.  Does this forum have an affiliate website or wiki so that I can access the information?  If not you could provide links to the previous discussions that you refer to.

I certainly take the rest of your post seriously.  What I have learned about this case is sketchy and sporadic.  The post I submitted previously, were made in 2013 so I’m going back a bit.   The reason I pursued the issue of Jeremy having to predict the unpredictable and plan the unplannable with an infinite number of variables in order to get the most exacting of outcomes is because I believe that failure of a sustainable narrative in that respect undermines the whole pro-guilt argument and also makes irrelevant all the points you make.  As far as I am concerned (at the moment) it’s a murder/suicide case with Jeremy being shoe-horned into a scenario that offers an easy way out for a jury.

I am reading the e-book on the case by Jeremy’s official website.  However I want to consider both sides of the argument with an up-to-date pro-guilt version of events if one is available.  Let me know if the one by Carol-Ann Lee is any good and advise me if anyone on this forum has reviewed it.

Hoots!

Killing parents is rare,as in the cases of David Bain,Martin Tankleff, the Menendez brothers and Ernest Scherer. I can only surmise that the status quo becomes so insufferable that doing away with them becomes an idée fixe and the lesser of two evils. Born into an alien environment where you have little in common with your parents may be the start of this process, and in Jeremy's case the double blow of being sent away at eight years old,the only justification for which being that your future life would be made materially comfortable,only to end up working twelve hour days on the tractor,which may have tipped the balance of his thinking. As he bounced ideas off an intelligent girlfriend he must over a period of time have come to think they were given a modicum of respectability,and with the aid of central nervous system stimulants he was able to commit the crime and revert back to normal thought processes,where he alone took precedence and outside interference was unwelcome if this criterion were not met.

[Caroline]

I'd like to see the psychiatrist's report or at least a diagnosis for Jeremy's psychopathy, either in prison or before.  I'm sorry that you find my request for you to challenge your thinking condecending.  I am willing to go forth and challenge my own thinking if it makes you feel better if only someone would come up with Jeremy's theory of the crime and plan of action.  

Peace
Hoots!

What does that mean? Jeremy planned to enter the farm in the dead of night and kill his family in order to inherit early. He pretended to receive a phone call from his father in order to distance himself from the incident and implicate his sister after he staged the crime scene to make it look as though she had 'gone crazy' with a gun he 'just happened' to have left out. 'What' he did while in the house and in what order, only he knows. How can anyone tell you 'Jeremy's theory'?

[lebaleb]

What does that mean? Jeremy planned to enter the farm in the dead of night and kill his family in order to inherit early. He pretended to receive a phone call from his father in order to distance himself from the incident and implicate his sister after he staged the crime scene to make it look as though she had 'gone crazy' with a gun he 'just happened' to have left out. 'What' he did while in the house and in what order, only he knows. How can anyone tell you 'Jeremy's theory'?

If that was his plan then he must be completely mad. Too many 'What if's...':

Somebody saw him on the road.
The dog barked and alerted Neville.
Someone heard him climbing through the window.
Someone was awake at WHF and called the police.
Neville had unloaded the gun and put it away.
He was overpowered by Neville.
Sheila locked herself [and her children] in the bathroom or another room.
Sheila refused to cooperate and allow herself to be shot.
He left a tiny amount of blood on the window, the bike, his clothes.
JM went to the police.
Et Al...

[guest1199]

Killing parents is rare,as in the cases of David Bain,Martin Tankleff, the Menendez brothers and Ernest Scherer. I can only surmise that the status quo becomes so insufferable that doing away with them becomes an idée fixe and the lesser of two evils. Born into an alien environment where you have little in common with your parents may be the start of this process, and in Jeremy's case the double blow of being sent away at eight years old,the only justification for which being that your future life would be made materially comfortable,only to end up working twelve hour days on the tractor,which may have tipped the balance of his thinking. As he bounced ideas off an intelligent girlfriend he must over a period of time have come to think they were given a modicum of respectability,and with the aid of central nervous system stimulants he was able to commit the crime and revert back to normal thought processes,where he alone took precedence and outside interference was unwelcome if this criterion were not met.

Hi Steve

Food for thought.

Hoots!
Peace

[guest1199]

If that was his plan then he must be completely mad. Too many 'What if's...':

Somebody saw him on the road.
The dog barked and alerted Neville.
Someone heard him climbing through the window.
Someone was awake at WHF and called the police.
Neville had unloaded the gun and put it away.
He was overpowered by Neville.
Sheila locked herself [and her children] in the bathroom or another room.
Sheila refused to cooperate and allow herself to be shot.
He left a tiny amount of blood on the window, the bike, his clothes.
JM went to the police.
Et Al...

Exactly!

Hoots!
Peace!

[Jane]

If that was his plan then he must be completely mad. Too many 'What if's...':

Somebody saw him on the road.
The dog barked and alerted Neville.
Someone heard him climbing through the window.
Someone was awake at WHF and called the police.
Neville had unloaded the gun and put it away.
He was overpowered by Neville.
Sheila locked herself [and her children] in the bathroom or another room.
Sheila refused to cooperate and allow herself to be shot.
He left a tiny amount of blood on the window, the bike, his clothes.
JM went to the police.
Et Al...

Jeremy obviously believed he could control anything that occurred. Did ANY of your concerns transpire?

[guest1199]

'What' he did while in the house and in what order, only he knows. How can anyone tell you 'Jeremy's theory'?

You said you'd get back to me with this. 

Peace
Hoots!

[Stephanie]

You said you'd get back to me with this. 

Peace
Hoots!

Morning TomG.

Caroline has clearly answered your question yet you are choosing to ignore her answer suggesting she hasn't answered you? What's that all about?

[Caroline]

If that was his plan then he must be completely mad. Too many 'What if's...': All crimes are 'what if's'

Somebody saw him on the road. - not if he went across the fields
The dog barked and alerted Neville. So what if he alerted Nevill? He'd have let him in! But why would the dogs bark? They knew Jeremy and they'd have smelled him before they saw him!
Someone heard him climbing through the window. Again, so what?
Someone was awake at WHF and called the police. Why would they call the police on Jeremy?
Neville had unloaded the gun and put it away. Jeremy didn't leave it on the settle in full view, he loaded it and put it somewhere out of sight!
He was overpowered by Neville. Nevill was 63, had chronic back pain and Jeremy was armed and could certainly move faster and he had the element of surprise!
Sheila locked herself [and her children] in the bathroom or another room. Every crime carries a risk but that's really not much of a one.
Sheila refused to cooperate and allow herself to be shot. I think he was a little cleverer than relying on her cooperation!
He left a tiny amount of blood on the window, the bike, his clothes. What difference would that make? His plan was to NOT be a suspect from the start and I don't think he used the bike!
JM went to the police. She did but he told her a C&B story which he thought would discredit her!
Et Al...

[Caroline]

You said you'd get back to me with this. 

Peace
Hoots!

I can get back to you with MY theory - not his, I'm not a mind reader.

[Caroline]

Morning TomG.

Caroline has clearly answered your question yet you are choosing to ignore her answer suggesting she hasn't answered you? What's that all about?

Cheers Steph, I asked WHY and WHEN EP would want to frame Jeremy when they had a perfectly plausible ending to their investigation with the murder suicide outcome. Like many others, Tom can't answer either question.

[Stephanie]

Cheers Steph, I asked WHY and WHEN EP would want to frame Jeremy when they had a perfectly plausible ending to their investigation with the murder suicide outcome. Like many others, Tom can't answer either question.

I totally agree with you. Why would EP want to do that? What could they gain from framing him. Nothing! As already pointed out, it originally started out as a murder/suicide. If the police had accidentally shot anyone - which they hadn't - they could have left it at that.

The police clearly went after JB when they realised his behaviour wasn't that of a grieving son/brother and knew he was dangerous and needed taking off the streets.

I'm re-posting the first few paragraphs of his last blog to remind readers how sick he is:

"I wanted to write about what it’s been like having now spent thirty complete years in jail. A total of 10958 days (Including 8 added leap year days) give or take a few hours ( on 29th September, equalling 263 thousand hours of wrongful imprisonment.

Looking at it like that makes it seem such a long time. No doubt it’s at least a third of my life. It feels so painful at times to know that I’ve let my mum and dad down so badly. Dad especially would be disappointed in me for having failed to prove my innocence and therefore cleared their names too within thirty years. “Thirty years Jem, you’ve had thirty years mate to sort this lot out”, his voice is still clear in my mind.

I know people might think it odd that dad and I often called each other ‘Mate’, it was an in joke between us. This began in 1980. Both dad and I enjoyed the movies and from the age of 12 onwards we’d quite often go to the cinema together. Once I’d learnt to drive and had my own car we’d go to the cinema a little less often as I used to like taking a friend instead. Bringing your dad along if you were hoping for a kiss and a cuddle just wasn’t cool, even I knew that. It sounds so corny thinking back that my taking a young lady to the pictures might have led to something more than friendship, but I had no idea how to do this dating malarkey way back then."


Look how in his opening couple of paras he 'plays the victim' in order to attempt to gain sympathy votes.

Then the comment about 'letting his mum & dad down so badly?' No mention of Sheila or the twins!

'Dad especially would be disappointed?' Why his dad more than his mum? If he were innocent, which he isn't - surely it would be equal - not one parent more than the other.

He's so dismissive of their deaths and by the next sentence he's making a joke of things....

Very telling imo.....

[Caroline]

I totally agree with you. Why would EP want to do that? What could they gain from framing him. Nothing! As already pointed out, it originally started out as a murder/suicide. If the police had accidentally shot anyone - which they hadn't - they could have left it at that.

The police clearly went after JB when they realised his behaviour wasn't that of a grieving son/brother and knew he was dangerous and needed taking off the streets.

I'm re-posting the first few paragraphs of his last blog to remind readers how sick he is:

"I wanted to write about what it’s been like having now spent thirty complete years in jail. A total of 10958 days (Including 8 added leap year days) give or take a few hours ( on 29th September, equalling 263 thousand hours of wrongful imprisonment.

Looking at it like that makes it seem such a long time. No doubt it’s at least a third of my life. It feels so painful at times to know that I’ve let my mum and dad down so badly. Dad especially would be disappointed in me for having failed to prove my innocence and therefore cleared their names too within thirty years. “Thirty years Jem, you’ve had thirty years mate to sort this lot out”, his voice is still clear in my mind.

I know people might think it odd that dad and I often called each other ‘Mate’, it was an in joke between us. This began in 1980. Both dad and I enjoyed the movies and from the age of 12 onwards we’d quite often go to the cinema together. Once I’d learnt to drive and had my own car we’d go to the cinema a little less often as I used to like taking a friend instead. Bringing your dad along if you were hoping for a kiss and a cuddle just wasn’t cool, even I knew that. It sounds so corny thinking back that my taking a young lady to the pictures might have led to something more than friendship, but I had no idea how to do this dating malarkey way back then."


Look how in his opening couple of paras he 'plays the victim' in order to attempt to gain sympathy votes.

Then the comment about 'letting his mum & dad down so badly?' No mention of Sheila. 'Dad especially would be disappointed?' Why his dad more than his mum? If he were innocent, which he isn't - surely it would be equal - not one parent more than the other.

He's so dismissive of their deaths and by the next sentence he's making a joke of things....

Very telling imo.....

Good post Steph - one other thing, he never mentions the twins! Also telling I think.

[Stephanie]

Good post Steph - one other thing, he never mentions the twins! Also telling I think.

Thanks Caroline - I'm going to edit my post. I totally missed that out and shouldn't have. So telling imo. What a sick and twisted individual he is!