Another MASSIVE Lie

[Jane]

She may have clouted him with it for starters after handling it with her bloodied hands.,

OK, so having clouted him with it, he calmly says "Now give it to Daddy like as good girl" and she hands it over, he puts it neatly away, then she shoots him and beats him to death. There's something about that scenario which doesn't quite work.

[lookout]

OK, so having clouted him with it, he calmly says "Now give it to Daddy like as good girl" and she hands it over, he puts it neatly away, then she shoots him and beats him to death. There's something about that scenario which doesn't quite work.

For obvious reasons it won't work the way you say it,or want to imagine it. There were grab marks on Neville's arm,or would you rather there weren't ? The same on June's arm but not as pronounced.

[Jane]

For obvious reasons it won't work the way you say it,or want to imagine it. There were grab marks on Neville's arm,or would you rather there weren't ? The same on June's arm but not as pronounced.

So you've said....................repeatedly. Funny though how, despite the poor quality and grainy pictures, you've seen these marks. They even seemed to have been missed -or simply not thought worth noting if they WERE there- at autopsy. My apologies. You weren't the only one. Mike said he saw marks on Nevill's wrist and said it was where Sheila had tied him to the chair in order to shoot him and beat him to death.

[lookout]

So you've said....................repeatedly. Funny though how, despite the poor quality and grainy pictures, you've seen these marks. They even seemed to have been missed -or simply not thought worth noting if they WERE there- at autopsy. My apologies. You weren't the only one. Mike said he saw marks on Nevill's wrist and said it was where Sheila had tied him to the chair in order to shoot him and beat him to death.

I actually read a document explaining the marks on the forearms of both Neville and June because it hadn't been decided how or what made them.

[Jan]

There was a really interesting programme on BBC four last night I would recommend watching it  - catching Histories criminals - the forensic story .

It will make you think twice about what posters on here say is fact when in fact a lot of it is opinion . It is a series of 4 I think. I found it fascinating .

[Jan]

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/victim-support/support-at-the-scene/family-home-is-a-crime-ccene/media-intrusion/psychological-impact-and-implications-for-recovery/social-and-relationships/advocacy/bodies-and-funerals

As you are stating this as 100% lie - do you know if the police did ask him?

[mike tesko]

(1) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7173.45.html

See Reply 52...

[guest154]

There was a really interesting programme on BBC four last night I would recommend watching it  - catching Histories criminals - the forensic story .

It will make you think twice about what posters on here say is fact when in fact a lot of it is opinion . It is a series of 4 I think. I found it fascinating .

Why's that Jan? Or do we have to watch it? Welcome back btw, were you banned?

[guest1199]

You cannot 'expect' Sheila to be found in the same room as the twins, you may have such an opinion but as you have no real idea what happened and how she came to be where she was found you can only speculate.

I have no idea in what order the family was dispatched if Jeremy committed the murder, perhaps you can let me know.  With more than 10k posts you would surely have some theory of the crime.

I think I am aware of the natural instincts of a mother needing to protect her children which begs the question why didn't she?

Agreed!  Perhaps she had dispatched them to a better place. 

The answer could be that she was not allowed to be with her children by the person holding the rifle, she may have been trying to get to them when she was shot.

Hmmm!

If she was responsible f o r the death of her children during a psychotic episode it is unlikely she would have been aware of her maternal instincts at that time but rather in another dimension.

Agreed!

I have taken fight or flight into consideration and 'flight' if you are trapped can translate as being 'frozen with fear' this is VERY understandable to anyone who has experienced a serious life threatening situation.

O.K. but I still think that her natural protective insticts would have kicked in taking her to her children.

What about the rifle?  Can someone give me a specification and usage of the rifle or provide a link?

Hoots!

[Jane]

I have no idea in what order the family was dispatched if Jeremy committed the murder, perhaps you can let me know.  With more than 10k posts you would surely have some theory of the crime.Agreed!  Perhaps she had dispatched them to a better place.  Hmmm!Agreed!O.K. but I still think that her natural protective insticts would have kicked in taking her to her children.

What about the rifle?  Can someone give me a specification and usage of the rifle or provide a link?

Hoots!

None of us was there so all we can do is speculate. I guess there can be more orders of death than there are members here. Indeed, several have already posted on this. Feel free you add your own thoughts.

[maggie]

Natural instincts would not generally override psychosis and as I said if she was held at gunpoint her natural instincts would possibly not have had time to kick in, as she was in a state of shock and fear and then she was dead.
I am open to any suggestions and not a hard line quilter by any means but your suggestions are only possibilities and unconvincing imo.

[Caroline]

I actually read a document explaining the marks on the forearms of both Neville and June because it hadn't been decided how or what made them.

Then where is it?

[guest1199]

None of us was there so all we can do is speculate. I guess there can be more orders of death than there are members here. Indeed, several have already posted on this. Feel free you add your own thoughts.

OK.  At this moment in time I think Jeremy was framed.  In order to conclude otherwise I would have to have a pro-guilt timeline of events of what order the family was dispatched.  If I was Jeremy walking towards the farm that night I would have to be thinking about what order the family was going to die.   If it were me I would certainly want to kill Neville first since that would take care of the head of the family and drain the morale of the rest, but it seems that was not the case. Neville was the only other with experience with guns and knowledge of how to use them effectively. Why wasn’t Neville killed first while he slept? 

Hoots!

[Caroline]

OK. At this moment in time I think Jeremy was framed. In order to conclude otherwise I would have to have a pro-guilt timeline of events of what order the family was dispatched.  If I was Jeremy walking towards the farm that night I would have to be thinking about what order the family was going to die.   If it were me I would certainly want to kill Neville first since that would take care of the head of the family and drain the morale of the rest, but it seems that was not the case. Neville was the only other with experience with guns and knowledge of how to use them effectively. Why wasn’t Neville killed first while he slept? 

Hoots!

Hi Tom, from your account I guess you don't think he did the shooting (some people think he's guilty but 'framed' with the silencer evidence)? Can I ask why you think EP would frame Jeremy when they had the case sewn up as a murder/suicide? Especially as they had to make themselves look pretty stupid and seriously incompetent in order to do so. Also, at what point did they start framing him? If there was a call from Nevill, they knew t from day one and could have proven to the relatives that Jeremy was innocent. If there was a female body in the kitchen, they knew it from day one and could have proven ........ you get the picture. So, when and why would they have decided to frame Jeremy?

Jeremy being framed drags up more questions than why Nevill wasn't targeted first BUT, I can offer a suggestion (or two). The best laid plans don't always work the way they were planned and perhaps circumstances intervened. Nevill may have awoken before Jeremy was able to get into a good enough position to shoot OR he may have been sleeping in another room (there are no casings on Nevill's side of the bed other than those used to kill Sheila, none of Nevill's blood was found in the main bedroom but there was some outside of Sheila's room - on the landing and all of the casings are located near to the main bedroom door). This may explain how Nevill managed to get passed Jeremy and down stairs.

[lookout]

Then where is it?

A report written by Vanezis stated that gouge marks found on Neville and similarly also found on Sheila were consistent with them both having been in a struggle. Mrks were on Neville's right forearm and also the right hand of Sheila.