Author Topic: outlandish Theory's  (Read 71961 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #495 on: December 05, 2015, 01:56:PM »
Yes, you are incorrect...

It is irrelevant that he took the polygraph test after he was convicted, and the person who asked the questions and who recorded Jeremy's answers was and is an expert in his own right. He is what they call 'an expert witness', who can testify in criminal proceedings of his findings which arose out of the testing of Jeremy Bamber. His findings are admissible, and as a matter of law, must be accepted, unless a different expert who specialises in that field of expertise provides a conflicting interpretation from the same set of questions, answers and recording captured on various equipment. There is nothing to stop someone who is due to stand trial, from taking a polygraph test before the trial begins, and the results being tendered in as part of the defendants case. In much the same way that the results of a breatholiser or a drugs test can be tended and relied upon...


All the expert witness can say is that someone's stress levels did or didn't rise when certain questions were asked. They cannot say -beyond a shadow of doubt- whether or not they were lying. A stress detector is VERY different from an alcohol or drug detector, both of which can be physically detected in the body, making tests reliable. We all react differently to stress factors, ie, I'd tell the absolute truth but, more than likely, fail a stress test because of the pressure I'd feel myself to be under.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #496 on: December 05, 2015, 01:57:PM »

And was this particular expert witness called to give evidence?

Not yet, no...

Jeremy had been campaigning for decades trying to persuade the Home Office, to allow him to have a polygraph test, but they refused him one...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #497 on: December 05, 2015, 02:05:PM »
Not yet, no...

Jeremy had been campaigning for decades trying to persuade the Home Office, to allow him to have a polygraph test, but they refused him one...


It seems they may only be used on sex offenders, and as a possible move towards their parole.

Offline maggie

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #498 on: December 05, 2015, 02:09:PM »
No they don't, they simply prove he wasn't stressed when he took the test. Why would he be? He's already been convicted and had nothing to loose by taking the test.

Jeremy and the defence can't prove he received the call, if he could they would have mentioned it at trial 29 years ago. However, his account is about as believable as Katie Price becoming the next Prime Minister
Don't make assumptions Caroline, you never can tell!  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #499 on: December 05, 2015, 02:15:PM »
Neither could the prosecution prove that a call wasn't made as all they did was rely on the bungling police who'd made a hash of it anyway because of answering calls to TWO Mr Bambers-----------very confusing for them indeed. ::)

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #500 on: December 05, 2015, 02:20:PM »

All the expert witness can say is that someone's stress levels did or didn't rise when certain questions were asked. They cannot say -beyond a shadow of doubt- whether or not they were lying. A stress detector is VERY different from an alcohol or drug detector, both of which can be physically detected in the body, making tests reliable. We all react differently to stress factors, ie, I'd tell the absolute truth but, more than likely, fail a stress test because of the pressure I'd feel myself to be under.

They can give their opinion as "an expert witness" that the person they tested passed the test and that leads them to conclude that the person has given honest answers. As such, their opinion is admissible, and carries more weight than the opinion of an ordinary person...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #501 on: December 05, 2015, 02:25:PM »
Neither could the prosecution prove that a call wasn't made as all they did was rely on the bungling police who'd made a hash of it anyway because of answering calls to TWO Mr Bambers-----------very confusing for them indeed. ::)


It seems to me that those who think Jeremy is innocent are clinging onto a phone call from Nevill to the police as if their lives depend on it because it's all they got. It actually works rather well because it's irrelevant whether they CAN'T produce it because there never was one and negatives can't be proved OR, according to the innocents, they have it snaffled away somewhere and WON'T produce it, the results are exactly the same, the evidence AIN'T there, which means that "innocent" can go on about police corruption to their hearts' content.

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #502 on: December 05, 2015, 02:26:PM »
 I wonder how many members of the public would pass the test ? I also wonder how many would volunteer for the test if asked certain questions about their lives ?

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #503 on: December 05, 2015, 02:28:PM »
They can give their opinion as "an expert witness" that the person they tested passed the test and that leads them to conclude that the person has given honest answers. As such, their opinion is admissible, and carries more weight than the opinion of an ordinary person...

But only -and rarely then- in the case of sex offenders. Latest results for their efficacy give 70 to 90 per cent accuracy.

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #504 on: December 05, 2015, 02:32:PM »
I wonder how many members of the public would pass the test ? I also wonder how many would volunteer for the test if asked certain questions about their lives ?


Depends on the circumstances, Lookout. I wouldn't be prepared to sit on a stage in front of an audience, but done privately it might be similar to a counselling session.

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #505 on: December 05, 2015, 02:40:PM »

It seems to me that those who think Jeremy is innocent are clinging onto a phone call from Nevill to the police as if their lives depend on it because it's all they got. It actually works rather well because it's irrelevant whether they CAN'T produce it because there never was one and negatives can't be proved OR, according to the innocents, they have it snaffled away somewhere and WON'T produce it, the results are exactly the same, the evidence AIN'T there, which means that "innocent" can go on about police corruption to their hearts' content.






We're not clinging on to anything. Can I ask why you're disputing what I suggest when you know full well he's guilty and has been in prison for over 30 years ? When there are clearly discrepancies in the investigation.Or don't you believe that there are and that the case was handled with the highest professional investigation that EP could muster.?

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #506 on: December 05, 2015, 02:58:PM »





We're not clinging on to anything. Can I ask why you're disputing what I suggest when you know full well he's guilty and has been in prison for over 30 years ? When there are clearly discrepancies in the investigation.Or don't you believe that there are and that the case was handled with the highest professional investigation that EP could muster.?

Lookout, I have every confidence in saying that I don't believe there will ever be a circumstance devoid of discrepancies so I'm not going to say there were none.

 The case MAY have been handled with the highest of professional investigating EP could muster but that doesn't mean it was handled well, NEITHER does it mean that Jeremy is innocent. I experience you as seeking to apply discrepancies where there are none. You insist that certain things happened - Sheila's prints on three different guns - with absolutely NOTHING to back up what you say. I think we're all far enough down the line here to know that nothing save that which is documented is worth considering. The rest is rumour.

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #507 on: December 05, 2015, 03:06:PM »

Depends on the circumstances, Lookout. I wouldn't be prepared to sit on a stage in front of an audience, but done privately it might be similar to a counselling session.






Jeremy was in a threatening environment.Not exactly in the comfort of calming surrounds.

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #508 on: December 05, 2015, 03:17:PM »
Lookout, I have every confidence in saying that I don't believe there will ever be a circumstance devoid of discrepancies so I'm not going to say there were none.

 The case MAY have been handled with the highest of professional investigating EP could muster but that doesn't mean it was handled well, NEITHER does it mean that Jeremy is innocent. I experience you as seeking to apply discrepancies where there are none. You insist that certain things happened - Sheila's prints on three different guns - with absolutely NOTHING to back up what you say. I think we're all far enough down the line here to know that nothing save that which is documented is worth considering. The rest is rumour.





But it WAS handled well according to you and others.He was found guilty wasn't he and put in prison for the rest of his natural ? Isn't this the way you hoped/wanted it to go ? So how can you admit that it wasn't handled well ? This was a mans life hanging in the balance ! It would have had to have been handled well if we'd still have had the death penalty and even without it it's no less serious not to have got things right.
 You wouldn't object to a re-run then ?

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #509 on: December 05, 2015, 03:33:PM »




But it WAS handled well according to you and others.He was found guilty wasn't he and put in prison for the rest of his natural ? Isn't this the way you hoped/wanted it to go ? So how can you admit that it wasn't handled well ? This was a mans life hanging in the balance ! It would have had to have been handled well if we'd still have had the death penalty and even without it it's no less serious not to have got things right.
 You wouldn't object to a re-run then ?


I'm not certain how you think the two things equate -actually, at the time, I wasn't certain that he was guilty- it certainly doesn't follow that, just because they eventually got it right, what preceded it was right. Far from it. Had it been right -the discrepancies fewer- we wouldn't be having this debate. You can continue to throw discrepancies into the mix, but NONE of them mean Jeremy is innocent.