Author Topic: outlandish Theory's  (Read 71939 times)

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John

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #405 on: December 03, 2015, 02:39:AM »
Why indeed Mike?
I am aware police are capable of framing people but why frame Jeremy Bamber? That's a question I can't find an answer for.

Beacause there is no answer, it is all Mike's pure invention.

Offline David1819

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #406 on: December 03, 2015, 03:03:AM »
First of all, it is irrelevant whether or not both shots were contact, or close contact in nature. Since, that does not determine who shot her. Secondly, you have got the wrong end of the stick when it comes down to your interpretation of a cover up. Like so many of you, you are not thinking straight. The police are responsible for creating the idea that there has been and is a cover up. The mistake they made right at the beginning of the police investigation, was that 'they' staged Sheila Caffells death scene, and then took photographs. They set Sheila's death scene to make it look like she must have shot herself. It was the police who had done this, with absolutely no encouragement from Jeremy Bamber who was not even at the farmhouse by the time police set about fabricating the death scene. They took this approach for whatever reason, no doubt intending for the matter to be dealt with through the Coroners court system. Once they took this approach they were forever doomed and entrapped by their own actions. At this juncture, I suggest you pause a little and ask yourself a series of important questions. The  first question you should ask yourself is whether or not the police did nothing wrong when they staged Sheila Caffells death scene, and then took photographs which they misused by suggesting that the ones which showed Sheila in possession of the rifle, were taken before another photograph which showed the same rifle resting against the bedroom window, when in actual fact the rifle was photographed resting against the bedroom window, before police moved it onto Sheila's body and took the other photographs - is it your suggestion that police acted lawfully and legally in this matter, and would you be happy if you yourself were ever at some point in the future subjected to similar tactics that might get you convicted?

Yes it is relevant, the contact wounds prove it was either Shelia or Jeremy. This throws your police conspiracy theory out the window. hence why ignore it.

Had the police killed Shelia they would have no need to cover it up. Had Shelia killed the family then the police killed her during the raid. All police would have to say is they had to neutralise Shelia as she posed a threat to them. Crazy women shoots children and parents - police shoot her before she shoots them. Armed officers have license to kill they have no need to create a huge conspiracy.


John

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #407 on: December 03, 2015, 03:07:AM »
Yes it is relevant, the contact wounds prove it was either Shelia or Jeremy. This throws your police conspiracy theory out the window. hence why ignore it.

Had the police killed Shelia they would have no need to cover it up. Had Shelia killed the family then the police killed her during the raid. All police would have to say is they had to neutralise Shelia as she posed a threat to them. Crazy women shoots children and parents - police shoot her before she shoots them. Armed officers have license to kill they have no need to create a huge conspiracy.

Not to mention the fact that had the police fired a shot or shots then it/they would have been heard by everyone in the stillness of the night.

I'm afraid Mike has been watching too many Bodie and Doyle replays.  :)

« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 03:12:AM by John »

Offline David1819

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #408 on: December 03, 2015, 03:33:AM »
Not to mention the fact that had the police fired a shot or shots then it/they would have been heard by everyone in the stillness of the night.

I'm afraid Mike has been watching too many Bodie and Doyle replays.  :)



That show was long before my time, He has probably watched too much of these guys also  :))


Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #409 on: December 03, 2015, 07:50:AM »
Police know what they did, they staged Sheila's death scene to make it look like she had killed herself. Nobody made the police do what they did. To make matters worse, the police had the audacity to blame Jeremy for staging his sisters suicide, for the purpose of fooling the police into accepting that she had taken her own life, when all along these blighters had staged her death scene themselves - how corrupt is that?


To be honest, Mike, with every post, you're actually compounding Jeremy's guilt. I doubt there's a person here who ISN'T aware of police corruption -I'm sure you don't have the monopoly there- and if you'd offered something reasonable and acceptable, there was a time when many of us would have grabbed it with both hands. As it stands now, factoring in everything you've said in the past -and are now adding to- you can go on claiming the police killed Sheila until the cows return, but the more you claim it. the less believable it becomes.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #410 on: December 03, 2015, 07:56:AM »
No I don't think it's OK and you don't know anything about me - I have experience of police corruption, you don't have the monopoly on that! However, Bamber is guilty and I believe that 100%

Jeremy Bamber did not kill anybody, and that is a fact...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #411 on: December 03, 2015, 08:41:AM »
Absolute tosh.  The police had no reason to stage anything, that was all accomplished by Jeremy Bamber in a half-baked attempt to frame his 'deranged' sister.

You theories hold no water Mike, your claim that a policeman shot Sheila is utter nonsense so you concoct the police staged the rifle story in an attempt to give it some credence.  I'm afraid none of it works and as Caroline pointed out, Jeremy Bamber is guilty.
Jeremy Bamber did not kill anybody, and you have already admitted police brought the rifle from the window and placed it on Sheila's body, and then took photographs which they used to fool the jury into believing that the photographs were a true record of how Sheila's body was found unmoved or untouched by any person, which we now know to have been a complete fabrication, as proven and established by the sequence with which key photographs were taken by SOCO. How anybody can suggest that Jeremy staged his sisters body to fool police into accepting she had shot herself beggars belief, in view of the fact that it can now be shown that police moved the body and the rifle so they could photograph her supposed death scene. The reason why miscarriages of justice happen is because of people like you. You are ignorant to the truth. Of course the police had a reason to cover what they had done up - they shot an unarmed deranged young woman downstairs in the kitchen which they called it 'a suicide', and later on, after the police surgeon, Dr Craig, had already pronounced her dead, they placed a loaded rifle which they brought to her body from the bedroom window, which discharged a live round depositing bullet PV/19 into her brain. There was nothing remotely legal about what happened in the main bedroom when they shot Sheila whilst carrying out a 'gauging exercise' using a loaded gun. The police shot and killed Sheila Caffell in the main bedroom, and the circumstances of how they killed her, were swept under the carpet, helped by them staging her death scene and then photographing her body with the gun upon it to give an impression that she had shot herself. The photographs they took after they had arranged the rifle back on her body were misused during the trial to support the contention that these particular photographs showed views of her death scene unmoved and untouched until Cook stepped forward and took the gun from her body. The police had every reason to cover up what they had done, and they did. How anybody can justify the police shooting and killing Sheila Caffell in these circumstances by claiming they would have been entitled to shoot her has got to be nuts. You cannot place a loaded weapon on the body of a victim whether or not you thought she was dead, or as it turned out deeply unconscious, and then start arranging her fingers upon and around the trigger mechanism, which causes the gun to go off, and then say, "oh, it's alright, we were entitled to kill her anyway". No, they weren't entitled to kill her anyway, she was unarmed, mistakenly thought to be dead, but only deeply unconscious. They had her under control, there was not justification for any police officer to claim after the gun went off, that "oh well, we were entitled to kill her anyway". There was no reason thereafter to stage her actual death scene to make it look like she had shot herself (when she hadn't). Even worse, for the police to then go on and take photographs which a year later they misused in a defiant act of deception. People like you who support this kind of dishonesty are a disgrace. The only time people like you will ever appreciate this type of injustice is if it happens and you are the victim on the receiving end of it...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 08:45:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #412 on: December 03, 2015, 08:53:AM »
They did shoot her, that is why they had to tamper with the ballistic evidence, particularly the bullet which caused the first shot across the neck. That bullet was not fired via the anshuzt rifle at the scene. The bullet which replaced it was fired fired via the anshuzt, but weeks afterwards during what I have termed 'the unreported test fire of control ammunition'. The sequence with which photographs, 23, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 were taken establishes with certainty that it was the police who had been responsible for moving Sheila's body, the rifle and the bible. Why did the police have to move the body, and bring the rifle that was resting against the bedroom window and position it upon Sheila's body in such a way so that for the purpose of the Coroners proceedings they could declare that Banners sister had killed herself (that's the first part of the mystery). Secondly, why were police so anxious to make it look like she had shot herself, if she hadn't? Thirdly, why then blame Jeremy for doing what they themselves had done?


If, if, IF they'd shot her, they have been perfectly within their rights. She was armed. Jeremy had told them that his father had -allegedly- told him Sheila had gone mad and had a gun. They didn't have to cover ANYTHING up. It would have been within the line of duty. They would have been defending themselves. They had their culprit. They didn't need to blame Jeremy. They could have silenced the relatives by proving Nevill phoned the police -IF Nevill had phoned the police.

It seems to me that a big and unnecessary deal is being made of the fact of them removing the weapon to take photographs and then putting it back. 

 

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #413 on: December 03, 2015, 09:11:AM »
Yes it is relevant, the contact wounds prove it was either Shelia or Jeremy. Garbage,  how anybody can believe that shit, beggars belief. How do you work that out then? Educate the educated...This throws your police conspiracy theory out the window. No, it doesn't, it just shows how ignorant you are...hence why ignore it. just because you or anybody chooses to ignore anything, is irrelevant, other than it helps to establish your ignorance of the truth...

Had the police killed Shelia they would have no need to cover it up. unless what they did, and how they went about it, was not legal... Had Shelia killed the family then the police killed her during the raid. You make it sound mechanical, when the truth of the matter is that the circumstances of her death were protracted, with her being initially shot downstairs in the kitchen during a struggle, and later upstairs in the main bedroom when the only participation she played was to be laid unconscious. If she had actually died as a result of being shot downstairs in the struggle with PS Woodcock, then I would have to agree that her death in those circumstances could be justified on the part of the police officer who's gun fired that first shot. But to bring a loaded rifle from the bedroom window to her body on the bedroom floor and squeeze her fingers on the trigger was not acceptable, and neither is it legal to claim police were justified in doing that or this... All police would have to say is they had to neutralise Shelia as she posed a threat to them. not when they brought that loaded rifle from the bedroom window to her body, and they used her fingers to activate the trigger mechanism - how do you explain what is legal by them doing that? There was nothing legal about any of this, by any standards. Her death was clearly caused unnecessarily, by the police. They shot an unarmed person, who they believed they had under control on the bedroom floor, already yet mistakenly believed dead... Crazy women shoots children and parents - police shoot her before she shoots them. Armed officers have license to kill they have no need to create a huge conspiracy. Absolute rubbish, since police shot Sheila after the firearms part of the operation had already ended...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #414 on: December 03, 2015, 09:34:AM »

If, if, IF they'd shot her, they have been perfectly within their rights. No, they wouldn't, particularly in the circumstances of how that loaded rifle was brought to her body and discharged at a time when the firearms operation had already finished...She was armed. No, she was not armed when police killed her in the bedroom, police put the rifle to her body, as described...Jeremy had told them that his father had -allegedly- told him Sheila had gone mad and had a gun. None of this has any bearing on why police brought the loaded rifle from the bedroom window, the firearm part of the operation had already concluded by the time police used the loaded rifle from the bedroom window that shot and killed her...They didn't have to cover ANYTHING up. Yes, they did...It would have been within the line of duty. I am afraid not, there should have been a criminal investigation into the circumstances surrounding how Sheila Caffell came to be shot and killed by use of the loaded rifle from the bedroom window after the firearm operation had already been wound down...They would have been defending themselves. No, how could you even argue the police were defending themselves when they brought the rifle from the bedroom window and placed 'it' on her body? They had their culprit. Yes, believed already dead, now on the bedroom floor, moved there from the bed. Police can have no justification for bringing a loaded rifle from the bedroom window and using her fingers to activate the trigger during a 'gauging exercise"..They didn't need to blame Jeremy. They didn't originally, they blamed Sheila for shooting herself. They framed Sheila for killing herself, but she hadn't shot herself, the police are responsible for firing that all important second fatal shot...They could have silenced the relatives by proving Nevill phoned the police Silenced the relatives, how? -IF Nevill had phoned the police. which he did...

It seems to me that a big and unnecessary deal is being made of the fact of them removing the weapon you have shot yourself in the foot by acknowledging that police had moved the rifle from the bedroom window and brought it to her body, and then took the key photographs which have been used dishonestly to help fool the jury into convicting Bamber... to take photographs and then putting it back. You appear to be saying you see nothing improper about police fabricating Sheila's death scene, then photographing it, and misusing these photographs during the all important trial, to convince the jury that the photographs which show the rifle on Sheila Caffells body, was in some way evidence of Bambers culpability...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 09:34:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #415 on: December 03, 2015, 09:52:AM »

If, if, IF they'd shot her, they have been perfectly within their rights. No, they wouldn't, particularly in the circumstances of how that loaded rifle was brought to her body and discharged at a time when the firearms operation had already finished...She was armed. No, she was not armed when police killed her in the bedroom, police put the rifle to her body, as described...Jeremy had told them that his father had -allegedly- told him Sheila had gone mad and had a gun. None of this has any bearing on why police brought the loaded rifle from the bedroom window, the firearm part of the operation had already concluded by the time police used the loaded rifle from the bedroom window that shot and killed her...They didn't have to cover ANYTHING up. Yes, they did...It would have been within the line of duty. I am afraid not, there should have been a criminal investigation into the circumstances surrounding how Sheila Caffell came to be shot and killed by use of the loaded rifle from the bedroom window after the firearm operation had already been wound down...They would have been defending themselves. No, how could you even argue the police were defending themselves when they brought the rifle from the bedroom window and placed 'it' on her body? They had their culprit. Yes, believed already dead, now on the bedroom floor, moved there from the bed. Police can have no justification for bringing a loaded rifle from the bedroom window and using her fingers to activate the trigger during a 'gauging exercise"..They didn't need to blame Jeremy. They didn't originally, they blamed Sheila for shooting herself. They framed Sheila for killing herself, but she hadn't shot herself, the police are responsible for firing that all important second fatal shot...They could have silenced the relatives by proving Nevill phoned the police Silenced the relatives, how? -IF Nevill had phoned the police. which he did...

It seems to me that a big and unnecessary deal is being made of the fact of them removing the weapon you have shot yourself in the foot by acknowledging that police had moved the rifle from the bedroom window and brought it to her body, and then took the key photographs which have been used dishonestly to help fool the jury into convicting Bamber... to take photographs and then putting it back. You appear to be saying you see nothing improper about police fabricating Sheila's death scene, then photographing it, and misusing these photographs during the all important trial, to convince the jury that the photographs which show the rifle on Sheila Caffells body, was in some way evidence of Bambers culpability...


You're playing with words here -I guess you've listened to a lot of lawyers. Well, I've listened to a lot of professors, all giving believable, but differing views- and I still say that IF they'd done anything ILLEGAL, there'd have been found a perfectly LEGAL reason for them so doing. As for the second shot. It wasn't the only fatal shot. The first shot would have proved fatal, just not instantly and as Vanezis said she'd have needed to hold her head up to walk. and more recently has said, that in his opinion, she didn't move after the first shot, I guess she flew upstairs. I can only believe that IF she'd been shot downstairs, the most she'd have been able to achieve would have been a very slow crawl.

I haven't shot myself in the foot at all. The police said they moved the gun to take pictures of the blood stain on her nightdress. I wasn't aware that they'd ever tried to cover this up. If, by the movement of a rifle, you're accusing the police of "fabricating Sheila's death scene" I don't think -never mind my foot- you'll have a leg to stand on. It remains to be seen if all those present would be willing to stand up in court and admit to their ALLEGED wrong doing.

Offline lookout

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #416 on: December 03, 2015, 10:06:AM »
This is no outlandish theory----------after watching a programme last night on forensic science,it's now possible to track down a killer by a " hair ".
After a crime has been committed,certain chemicals in the body are given off including ingestion of gsr which is found in particles in the air and anything else that can trace the last movement/place that the criminal visited.
We've known for years that the testing of hair gives us clues about our health and also the type of medication we take ( if any ) and of course drugs.

Some 300 years ago and obviously without the technology that we have today,a scientist carried out an experiment on a young man who it was said,died of natural causes but his relatives weren't happy with that outcome and so the scientist did a test using a chemical and a bone china vessel which he said that if a drop of this chemical was to be put onto the china bowl,heated over a bunsen-burner then if a black spot appeared, the cause of death had been poisoning by arsenic.
The wife had been sprinkling arsenic powder over her husbands food and when found guilty she was hanged.Her name was Lafarge.

The programme went further in finding out who'd fired bullets from a gun and set about examining the cases of the bullets which had been fired in a certain way along with particular markings on them.

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #417 on: December 03, 2015, 12:36:PM »
This is no outlandish theory----------after watching a programme last night on forensic science,it's now possible to track down a killer by a " hair ".
After a crime has been committed,certain chemicals in the body are given off including ingestion of gsr which is found in particles in the air and anything else that can trace the last movement/place that the criminal visited.
We've known for years that the testing of hair gives us clues about our health and also the type of medication we take ( if any ) and of course drugs.

Some 300 years ago and obviously without the technology that we have today,a scientist carried out an experiment on a young man who it was said,died of natural causes but his relatives weren't happy with that outcome and so the scientist did a test using a chemical and a bone china vessel which he said that if a drop of this chemical was to be put onto the china bowl,heated over a bunsen-burner then if a black spot appeared, the cause of death had been poisoning by arsenic.
The wife had been sprinkling arsenic powder over her husbands food and when found guilty she was hanged.Her name was Lafarge.

The programme went further in finding out who'd fired bullets from a gun and set about examining the cases of the bullets which had been fired in a certain way along with particular markings on them.


They lost the one they had. However, as it was colourless, it would probably only have told them who had BEEN shot......................not that they'd have needed a hair to tell them. They could see for themselves.

The Lafarge case has been used numerous times. I think it's become a standard.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 12:40:PM by Jane J »

Offline maggie

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #418 on: December 03, 2015, 01:32:PM »

They lost the one they had. However, as it was colourless, it would probably only have told them who had BEEN shot......................not that they'd have needed a hair to tell them. They could see for themselves.

The Lafarge case has been used numerous times. I think it's become a standard.
I don't go with the grey hair, I cannot believe that such a find would have been treated so casually.
I'm afraid I can see Stan Jones saying we need proof the moderator was used.  How do we prove that? .... we need a bloody moderator and a grey hair on it would be handy, now where would he hide it????? I can't take it seriously :-\

Offline Jane

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Re: outlandish Theory's
« Reply #419 on: December 03, 2015, 01:36:PM »
I don't go with the grey hair, I cannot believe that such a find would have been treated so casually.
I'm afraid I can see Stan Jones saying we need proof the moderator was used.  How do we prove that? .... we need a bloody moderator and a grey hair on it would be handy, now where would he hide it????? I can't take it seriously :-\


Guess we can add it to the ever growing list of other things which can't be taken seriously, can't we? ^-^