The Glasgow Herald newspaper cuttings.

[Steve_uk]

So, he allegedly gets this call from his "panicked" father, circa 3 am,telling him that his sister has gone mad and got hold of a gun -this is the same sister who having just been released from a psych clinic after a breakdown and is allegedly soon to return, has previously"tried several times to kill herself"- and yet Jeremy casually flicks through the telephone directory to find the number of A police station and because he gets no reply he idles away a few more minutes looking for another police station to ring.............................and all the while his suicidal sister with a history of mental illness is brandishing a gun at his "panicked" father. It definitely has "the ring of truth".................NO WAY!!!!!

Yes it does beggar belief I'm afraid.

[Jane]

No he wasn't,on account of him probably already " known " to the police. Even though he'd been in,and witnessed the thick of it during Sheila's tantrums.

More likely on account of him not knowing Jeremy.

[guest154]

So, he allegedly gets this call from his "panicked" father, circa 3 am,telling him that his sister has gone mad and got hold of a gun -this is the same sister who having just been released from a psych clinic after a breakdown and is allegedly soon to return, has previously"tried several times to kill herself"- and yet Jeremy casually flicks through the telephone directory to find the number of A police station and because he gets no reply he idles away a few more minutes looking for another police station to ring.............................and all the while his suicidal sister with a history of mental illness is brandishing a gun at his "panicked" father. It definitely has "the ring of truth".................NO WAY!!!!!

It's one of the most damning things for me - it's true that you can never truly predict what someone will do in a panic or a stressful situation - but I think you can tell in this instance that it doesn't ring true, I don't know anyone who would do what he did.  When you tell people his claims - thumbing from the phonebook etc - they don't believe it rings true either. It's very damning that his actions at the very start of the night seem false and contrived.

[lookout]

More likely on account of him not knowing Jeremy.

He very likely didn't know Jeremy that well,meeting him only at parties,although Freddie did meet the Bamber parents at WHF. What Freddie was tring to do was give his version of how he'd seen Sheila behaving,by way of defending Jeremy. He'd have to have known Jeremy to a certain extent,though as I said,it was all about Sheila.

[Steve_uk]

"I didn't know what was going to happen,did I?"

"I never really had a lot of luck with that gun.." https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19861018&id=FoJDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q6UMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4960,4431049&hl=en

[susan]

KD wouldn' do, Steve. He'd spend too long pulling his hair to make it stick out.

Jane you are on form tonight 

[scipio_usmc]

It's one of the most damning things for me - it's true that you can never truly predict what someone will do in a panic or a stressful situation - but I think you can tell in this instance that it doesn't ring true, I don't know anyone who would do what he did.  When you tell people his claims - thumbing from the phonebook etc - they don't believe it rings true either. It's very damning that his actions at the very start of the night seem false and contrived.

Thumbing through the phonebook demonstrates no sense of urgency at all. But worse he called Julie before police and then lied about it insisting he called police straight away after being unable to call his father back.

[Jane]

Thumbing through the phonebook demonstrates no sense of urgency at all. But worse he called Julie before police and then lied about it insisting he called police straight away after being unable to call his father back.

Oh shoot!!! Wouldn't ya jus' know I'd leave somethin' out.

[Steve_uk]

PC Woodcock: I never saw a silencer resting against any boxes at all..https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19861016&id=FIJDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q6UMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4397,3787446&hl=en

Am I right in thinking that the silencer was found outside a box and not contained therein..

[lookout]

I was aware of that Steve,a long time ago.

[Steve_uk]

I was aware of that Steve,a long time ago.

It does seem remarkable that Jeremy left it out in full view in the first place,and secondly that any so-called ballistics expert did not spot it immediately and scrutinize it. I was also thinking today about Dr. Ferguson's evidence at trial when he stated he didn't believe Sheila was capable of murdering her children,yet it's there in Carol Ann Lee's book bold as brass. David Bain got off for less..

[lookout]

It does seem remarkable that Jeremy left it out in full view in the first place,and secondly that any so-called ballistics expert did not spot it immediately and scrutinize it. I was also thinking today about Dr. Ferguson's evidence at trial when he stated he didn't believe Sheila was capable of murdering her children,yet it's there in Carol Ann Lee's book bold as brass. David Bain got off for less..

 It's not something that Jeremy would have done,had it been him who'd orchestrated the killings. Considering the amount of firearms officers in the place who are trained to spot such things I'd have said it wasn't there in the first place for them to spot.
Well it would depend who the liar is really,Dr Ferguson or CAL,because it's one of them. This has been typical of how the case went anyway------contradictions galore,which made it very unsafe and very unsound. One person saying one thing and another saying something else.

[guest154]

 It's not something that Jeremy would have done,had it been him who'd orchestrated the killings. Considering the amount of firearms officers in the place who are trained to spot such things I'd have said it wasn't there in the first place for them to spot.
Well it would depend who the liar is really,Dr Ferguson or CAL,because it's one of them. This has been typical of how the case went anyway------contradictions galore,which made it very unsafe and very unsound. One person saying one thing and another saying something else.

And how do you know this?
You're very good at saying how Jeremy wouldn't have done it. Shouldn't the arguement be "Jeremy wouldn't killed him family" rather than "Jeremy wouldn't have killed his family this way."

[vidvic]

 It's not something that Jeremy would have done,had it been him who'd orchestrated the killings. Considering the amount of firearms officers in the place who are trained to spot such things I'd have said it wasn't there in the first place for them to spot.
Well it would depend who the liar is really,Dr Ferguson or CAL,because it's one of them. This has been typical of how the case went anyway------contradictions galore,which made it very unsafe and very unsound. One person saying one thing and another saying something else.

Am confused....are we talking about the rifle or the moderator?

[Steve_uk]

Am confused....are we talking about the rifle or the moderator?

Vidvic in #83 there's a reference to the silencer which was discovered resting against the box in the gun cupboard and not inside(and therefore concealed from open view). I'm still not clear whether four separate Police officers looked inside the cupboard or PC Woodcock looked inside it four times,but it does seem strange that it wasn't noticed straightaway.