Colin said he would have killed June

[Caroline]

Jeremy would NOT have pumped 25 rounds into the family,nor would he have shot the twins. In fact he wouldn't have killed any of them. It was a completely frenzied and insane massacre,only concentrated in the kitchen and main bedroom leaving the rest of the farmhouse undisturbed.

EP knew that Jeremy wasn't exaggerating when he'd told them that his sister had problems,as they heard from neighbours and friends,one neighbour in particular had said she was,quote, " either the sickest woman in the world or she was on something.Her eyes would follow you everywhere,unquote "
Another neighbour mentioned the screaming in the early hours wakening the neighbours shouting " the world is evil-----------you are evil ".
Some family friends had told the press that she was mixed up in drugs and caused her parents nothing but worry and heartache .

These observations were taken from an excerpt of the Murder Casebook.

And lots of people thought it was Jeremy - on hearing what happened, one man at the road block said 'it will be that son of theirs'. That was said even before Sheila was the suspect.

It's true there was a lot of anger expressed at the scene - but it was staged to look like a massacre. I'm sure Jeremy released his own anger in the process but keeping enough control to allow him to blame Sheila.

[lookout]

Would you not say then that both were as bad as one another ? Spoiled brats springs to mind.

[scipio_usmc]

Which is exactly what I've been trying to find out since I joined the forum.

In that I don't believe that anything JUST happens out of the blue/for no reason, I suppose I will never fit into Scipio's idea of what a "reasonable thinking person" is. So be it. He deals only with the presented scene. I deal with what caused the scene to be presented and in order to do that I have to look beneath the presenting surface. What I see is a family which had been in turmoil for a long time. Turmoil possibly exacerbated by trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Jeremy wanted money so he could live to a playboy lifestyle without working.  The easiest way to do that would be to kill his family and take possession of everything they own.  He didn't want to work hard and wait till they died.  It aggravated him that he had to work while Sheila didn't have to work for them to get what aid they gave her. He wanted to live in London in a flat without having to work for them.  hat's the reason for the murders.  If they were poor he would not have killed them. He killed them for money.

[susan]

Jeremy wanted money so he could live to a playboy lifestyle without working.  The easiest way to do that would be to kill his family and take possession of everything they own.  He didn't want to work hard and wait till they died.  It aggravated him that he had to work while Sheila didn't have to work for them to get what aid they gave her. He wanted to live in London in a flat without having to work for them.  hat's the reason for the murders.  If they were poor he would not have killed them. He killed them for money.

Scipio I think that is an excellent post and I see it exactly the same as you. Had the Bambers been poor they would all have lived.

[Jane]

Jeremy wanted money so he could live to a playboy lifestyle without working.  The easiest way to do that would be to kill his family and take possession of everything they own.  He didn't want to work hard and wait till they died.  It aggravated him that he had to work while Sheila didn't have to work for them to get what aid they gave her. He wanted to live in London in a flat without having to work for them.  hat's the reason for the murders.  If they were poor he would not have killed them. He killed them for money.

So are you saying that he would have killed a family he loved to get his hands on the money?

[Adam]

Jeremy wanted money so he could live to a playboy lifestyle without working.  The easiest way to do that would be to kill his family and take possession of everything they own.  He didn't want to work hard and wait till they died.  It aggravated him that he had to work while Sheila didn't have to work for them to get what aid they gave her. He wanted to live in London in a flat without having to work for them.  hat's the reason for the murders.  If they were poor he would not have killed them. He killed them for money.

He may not have inherited anything anyway. Thread already created.

[Steve_uk]

So are you saying that he would have killed a family he loved to get his hands on the money?

Did Jeremy ever love anybody..Julie he used as a subterfuge for murder,other girlfriends and a host of others he used for sex. His relationship with Suzette was more difficult to discern but what may have been the making of him in the role of father failed to materialize and the relationship faltered. A combination of jealousy of his parents' wealth and new-found disgust at Sheila evolved as he saw the pornographic photographs as a sign of debauchery and not as her desperation to make ends meet. June he tolerated in this matrix as long as she wrote out personal cheques in his favour and paterfamilias Nevill was respected until his physical prowess waned. It was all too easy to blame the zombie Sheila,whom Colin had rejected and whose illness the twins were just beginning to understand.

[scipio_usmc]

So are you saying that he would have killed a family he loved to get his hands on the money?

If he loved them enough then his love would have overcome his greed. He was busy building up his resentment each day he had to work though.  He didn't have the drive to go work for someone else to become a success on his own. He worked for his family because they provided him with a house car and higher salary than he would make starting out on his own (more than someone doing the work he was doing would earn) plus they gave him an ownership interest and said he would one day inherit the farm
He didn't want to wait till they died and keep working.

After inheriting it if he sold the farm he would have to split the proceeds with his sister. He had no intention of farming for life so would have to split it with her or his nephews if she was dead (plus split half of June's interest in the Caravan site) and that is why he killed he rand the boys as well. It wasn't just because she made a good "fallguy".

     

[Jane]

Did Jeremy ever love anybody..Julie he used as a subterfuge for murder,other girlfriends and a host of others he used for sex. His relationship with Suzette was more difficult to discern but what may have been the making of him in the role of father failed to materialize and the relationship faltered. A combination of jealousy of his parents' wealth and new-found disgust at Sheila evolved as he saw the pornographic photographs as a sign of debauchery and not as her desperation to make ends meet. June he tolerated in this matrix as long as she wrote out personal cheques in his favour and paterfamilias Nevill was respected until his physical prowess waned. It was all too easy to blame the zombie Sheila,whom Colin had rejected and whose illness the twins were just beginning to understand.

Steve, I would have to ask if Jeremy ever FELT loved. Love is difficult to extend if it's never been received. Where is that frame of reference for a boy who is told of his adoption almost -to him, perhaps- as learning he's to be sent away to boarding school. Where is the love in that. It's useless simply telling a child that it's loved. Children need that love to be demonstrated by being touched, hugged, being told they're important. It seems to me his only frame of reference for what love was revolved around money and I think, in his eyes, Sheila was getting more for doing less = sibling rivalry raises its' head.

I'm not seeking to excuse what he did. Only to understand the deeper reasons why.

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio I think that is an excellent post and I see it exactly the same as you. Had the Bambers been poor they would all have lived.

If they had been poor and thus he had to work elsewhere he would only have seen them infrequently.  If they hounded the crap out of him when he visited- challenging him to make something more of his life   then he simply would have be able to visit less.

He had no drive to go do anything else and thus agreed to work in the family business with the understanding he would take it over when they die.  He didn't like the business though and didn't like working period.  He could have left but if he left he would have to find a job elsewhere and share the inheritance with Sheila after the last one died.

The easiest way he could get instant money and be able to stop working was by killing them.  He would have to pick some grand robbery scheme (like a bank robbery) if they were poor and he was still hell bent on instantly becoming rich to quit working.  Killing them was a grand crime realistically attainable as opposed to pie in the sky crimes like drilling into a bank vault.

 

[lookout]

Where do crimes of passion come in ?

[maggie]

Steve, I would have to ask if Jeremy ever FELT loved. Love is difficult to extend if it's never been received. Where is that frame of reference for a boy who is told of his adoption almost -to him, perhaps- as learning he's to be sent away to boarding school. Where is the love in that. It's useless simply telling a child that it's loved. Children need that love to be demonstrated by being touched, hugged, being told they're important. It seems to me his only frame of reference for what love was revolved around money and I think, in his eyes, Sheila was getting more for doing less = sibling rivalry raises its' head.

I'm not seeking to excuse what he did. Only to understand the deeper reasons why.

Well said Jane very true and it's easy to see it's very possible that money and love were synonymous in JB's mind.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I would have to ask if Jeremy ever FELT loved. Love is difficult to extend if it's never been received. Where is that frame of reference for a boy who is told of his adoption almost -to him, perhaps- as learning he's to be sent away to boarding school. Where is the love in that. It's useless simply telling a child that it's loved. Children need that love to be demonstrated by being touched, hugged, being told they're important. It seems to me his only frame of reference for what love was revolved around money and I think, in his eyes, Sheila was getting more for doing less = sibling rivalry raises its' head.

I'm not seeking to excuse what he did. Only to understand the deeper reasons why.

You know April I was reading only this morning about Michael Reagan,son of former President Ronald Reagan,who was adopted at birth,sent away to boarding school and not recognized by his own dad on a school visit. The son was indicted for fraud and several other scams during his working life. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2mrvjl/til_at_the_high_school_graduation_of_michael/

[Steve_uk]

If they had been poor and thus he had to work elsewhere he would only have seen them infrequently.  If they hounded the crap out of him when he visited- challenging him to make something more of his life   then he simply would have be able to visit less.

He had no drive to go do anything else and thus agreed to work in the family business with the understanding he would take it over when they die.  He didn't like the business though and didn't like working period.  He could have left but if he left he would have to find a job elsewhere and share the inheritance with Sheila after the last one died.

The easiest way he could get instant money and be able to stop working was by killing them.  He would have to pick some grand robbery scheme (like a bank robbery) if they were poor and he was still hell bent on instantly becoming rich to quit working.  Killing them was a grand crime realistically attainable as opposed to pie in the sky crimes like drilling into a bank vault.

 

I'm not sure it's true to say he had no drive to do anything else. His biological father was a success and there's no reason to suppose Jeremy himself might not have made something of himself in the military had he not been earmarked to work on the Farm. As it was Nevill and June should have realized this City boy was not cut out for farm work,at which he did make an attempt as well as working at Little Chef on his own initiative. Had they had the foresight they would have lent him the capital to buy a wine bar or given him more say in running Osea Road,as Jeremy himself wished.

[Jane]

You know April I was reading only this morning about Michael Reagan,son of former President Ronald Reagan,who was adopted at birth,sent away to boarding school and not recognized by his own dad on a school visit. The son was indicted for fraud and several other scams during his working life. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2mrvjl/til_at_the_high_school_graduation_of_michael/

Maggie/Steve, for many, in adult life, the more money they have, the more they feel loved and valued. The other big problem to raise its' head can be sexual promiscuity. It begins, in children, as a deep yearning to be touched and cuddled -especially with those children who see other children receiving this attention- unfortunately, at puberty, the need becomes exacerbated by hormones running riot and sex then equates with the love they never felt they received. I WILL add, before I'm jumped on from a great height that not ALL unloved children react like this, neither is it JUST the reserve of adopted children.