Author Topic: And so, to the truth about what Cook wrote on the exhibit label of silencer...  (Read 16352 times)

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Offline Adam

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Arrogance can be mistaken for self-confidence and being self-assured. Yes,his up-bringing has given him his strength and endurance which is to be admired.
I think that Jeremy thought at the time that everyone was the same as himself and understand where he was coming from.


A brilliant post,Maggie.I couldn't have put it better myself,as you've posted what my thoughts have been from day one and this is why I've believed him to be innocent and everyone else guilty of misunderstanding a young man as he was at the time.

You've always believed Bamber is innocent because in you're view he is self confident, rather than arrogant ? Although you have never met him.

Arrogant, self confidence. There is a thin line.

What about the incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence ?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 03:56:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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You've always believed Bamber is innocent because in you're view he is self confident, rather than arrogant ? Although you have never met him.

Arrogant, self confidence. There is a thin line.

What about the incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence ?
Arrogance and self confidence are very different, it is always said JB is arrogant by some who don't know him, you no doubt believe that.  How can you know, I am quoting a person I have spoken to who does know JB but is not in any way biased.  Michael O'Brien spent 7 years with Jeremy Bamber and said exactly the same thing, he is confident and self assured.  It doesn't make JB innocent but if he is not arrogant then why say he is?  I would guess different people interpret his personality in different ways and those who choose to believe him guilty are likely to say he's arrogant because it fits in with their picture of him and vice versa.

Offline Adam

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Arrogance and self confidence are very different, it is always said JB is arrogant by some who don't know him, you no doubt believe that.  How can you know, I am quoting a person I have spoken to who does know JB but is not in any way biased.  Michael O'Brien spent 7 years with Jeremy Bamber and said exactly the same thing, he is confident and self assured.  It doesn't make JB innocent but if he is not arrogant then why say he is?  I would guess different people interpret his personality in different ways and those who choose to believe him guilty are likely to say he's arrogant because it fits in with their picture of him and vice versa.

Obrien is biased. As he speaks in support of Bamber's innocence.

I don't really care whether he is arrogant or just self confident. Grahame said Bamber was not a very nice person, but that didn't make him guilty.

His partying straight after the massacre was perhaps 'over' confidence.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Obrien is biased. As he speaks in support of Bamber's innocence.

I don't really care whether he is arrogant or just self confident. Grahame said Bamber was not a very nice person, but that didn't make him guilty.

His partying straight after the massacre was perhaps 'over' confidence.
How do you know O'Brien is biased?   I suppose you believe he's biased because he has a different opinion to you.  Grahame didn't know Jeremy Bamber anymore than I do.  Do you know him?
Many people party after a tragedy, especially young people, it proves nothing.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 04:28:PM by maggie »

Offline Adam

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https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo


Here is Michael Obrien saying Bamber is innocent.

Interestingly the only two men I am aware of who campaign for Bamber, both met him in prison. What about the other men who met him in prison ?

Lookout is the one saying she believes Bamber is innocent because she believes him confident, rather than arrogant.

To me it makes no difference.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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The extracted paragraph states "On the 15th May 1991, Mr Pargeter's rifle, together with the .22 semi automatic rifle found at the murder scene on the 7th August 1985, with spent cartridge cases and bullets from the murder scene were submitted to the Metropolitan Police Forensic Laboratory at Lambeth, with a request for tests to be carried out as set out in Laboratory Form No.1 as attached."

The above lists the items submitted, separating them with commas. The wording used is slightly imperfect - the word "together" is redundant. However, that seems to be because of poor sentence construction, rather than because the two rifles were found in the same place or on the same date. Unlike the semi-automatic rifle and the spent cartridge cases and bullets, the first item is given simply as "Mr Pargeter's rifle", and this is consistent with the writer assuming that this rifle wasn't found or seized at the scene. What seems to have been in the writer's mind is that these items are now (1991) being submitted together for specified testing, whereas this had not happened previously (i.e., in 1985).

The paragraph doesn't specifically exclude the possibility that Pargeter's rifle was at the murder scene on 7th August 1985, but it doesn't confirm it either.

On the morning of the incident, Jeremy was asked by the police to provide as much information as possible, listing all the different kinds of gun, and ammunitions, present inside the farmhouse, before the raid team went into the premises. It is clearly recorded that Anthony Pargeters bruno bolt action rifle was present at the time of the shootings, together with the .22 air rifle, and the .22 semi automatic rifle. If the AP .22 bolt action rifle was missing from the scene, and in view of the police not even bothering to do ballistic testing until over a month later once the nature of the investigation changed, from a Coroners file, into a criminal one, it beggars belief that if the bolt action rifle belonging to AP was missing from the scene of these multiple fatal shootings, that Essex police, special Branch, and in particular the firearms officers did not appear to show any interest whatsoever in the fact if true that AP's bolt action rifle was crucially missing from the scene, when at that stage it was licensed to be kept there. How utterly coincidental, that AP purchased that bolt action rifle in 1980, and that he had always steadfastly kept it at whf, normally in the downstairs toilet. Yet in 1991, he told the COLP investigators that he had taken it home with him to Bourne End in Buckinghamshire, on the penultimate week end before the night of the tragic shootings. This is despite him making a different witness statement to Essex police back in 1985, to the effect that although he always kept his bolt action rifle at the scene, he had the habit of removing the bolt from it and taking the bolt home with him to Bourne End, so that no-one could fire the gun in its absence...

Now the two different accounts given by AP are incinsistent, ambiguos and contradictory,  because he either made a false witness statement to Essex police about his bolt action rifles whereabouts, to avoid prosecution for falling foul of firearm laws, with the strong possibility that his firearms license would be permanently revoked, or by the time it came around to AP giving a witness statement to the COLP investigators, he decided to tell the whole truth, that he had taken it away from the scene, bolt still fitted to the rifle. Now, if he did he was in breach of the conditions stipulated on his firearm certificate at the relevant time, and he should have faced prosecution, and had his firearm certificate revoked permanently. But he gets away with it because Essex police and the CPS, have a more useful role for AP to play in the prosecution of Jeremy Bamber..

If he took his bolt action rifle home on the penultimate week-end before the shoiting occurred, what reason did he have for doing so? He gives no explanation whatsoever for breaking the habit of a lifetime, and removing his rifle from the scene of these multiple murders on the penultimate week-end before Sheila went berserk and shot the other 4 victims. It doesn't add up, it doesn't make sense, its just a cover story that has been introduced to help the police get themselves out of the shit. AP's rifle was present at the scene at the time of the shootings, and I firmly believe that shots were fired by use of it, making the contents of his original witness statement that he made to Essex police, about always removing the bolt from ut, and taking only the bolt home, so that although his bolt action rifle was present at the scene, minus its bolt, no-obe could fire it in his absence. Well, according to discussions I had with Jeremy about AP's bokt action rifle, first of all, Jeremy is adament that AP's bolt action rifle was present at the scebe, located in its normal pkace inside the downstairs toilet. Furthermore, Jeremy has told me on countess occasions that his father (Raloh Neville Bamber) was a Magisteate on the Witham bench, and there is no way that Ralph would compromise the firearm laws by allowing AP to remove the bolt from his bruno rifle and take that home, whilst leaving the rifle itself, minus the bolt at the farmhouse, because the bolt itself was a component part of the firearm, and if Ralph had allowed AP to do that which he said he had done, then Ralph himself would have fallen foul of the firearm law. So, Jeremy assured me, that AP did not take his bolt out of his bruno rifle or take it home, whilst leaving the rifle at the scene, and he did not as he later contends take the full rifle home, on the penultimate week end before Sheila shot the other 4 victims, because his father who was a magistrate would not have allowed him to. Ap's bolt action rifle was there at the scene at the time of these fatal shootings. If it wasn't, the police would have made something more of its disappearance at such a significant moment.  Well, I for one, believe Jeremys account, the .22 bruno bolt action rifle was there at the scene, and I believe Sheila used it...

AP did not remove the bolt from his bruno rifle and taken that home with him, so that no-one could fire it in his absence, he would gave simply take the whole rifle away with him, at peril of if caught his firearms certificate would be oermanently revoked, and he could face prosecution. In any event, on the 9th August 1985, Essex police submitted a rifle to the lab' to be examined. Police documentation describes this rifle as an ansholts, bolt action rifle...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 04:51:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline maggie

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https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo


Here is Michael Obrien saying Bamber is innocent.

Interestingly the only two men I am aware of who campaign for Bamber, both met him in prison. What about the other men who met him in prison ?

Lookout is the one saying she believes Bamber is innocent because she believes him confident, rather than arrogant.

To me it makes no difference.
I've heard it thanks Adam.

Offline mike tesko

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AP told the COLP investigators, that Essex police did come to see him at his home, and asked to look at his bolt action rifle. He told COLP that the police did not say why they wanted to look at and examine his rifle, but it was apparent, he told them that they were examining it to see if was damaged in any way? Well, what suprised me regarding this revelation, was (a) the identity of the Essex police who came to look at AP's bolt action rifle, (b) the date they looked and examined it, and (c) what the devil did AP mean when he said he thought they were examining his bolt action rifle to see if it was damaged?

My belief, is that Essex police took possession of AP's bolt action rifle, examined it at the lab'on 9th August 1985, after some red paint from the aga had been found on the end of its barrel. Red paint that originated from the red painted aga suround in the main kitchen, which was what caused Ron Cook to take a paint sample (RC/1) at the scene on the 8th August 1985, details of which DC Hammersley spoke to the COLP investigators about. The fact of the matter is, that AP's rifle barrel had made scratch marks on the aga suround, Essex police knew this to be true, Ron Cook, DC Hammersley, DS Davidson, PC Bird, they all knew that the only mark of any description present upon the aga suround was made by the barrel of AP's bolt action rifle...

« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 05:23:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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I've heard it thanks Adam.

Why did you ask me 'how do you know Michael Obrien is biased ?'.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Why did you ask me 'how do you know Michael Obrien is biased ?'.
Because you posted that he was.  How do you know he's biased?  Is it because he has a different opinion to you?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:42:PM by maggie »

Offline Adam

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Because you psted that he was.  How do you know he's bised is it because he has a different opinion t you?

He's biased in support of Bamber. How do I know ?  I just gave you the Youtube link. Which you said you have already heard.

So he's not going to call Bamber arrogant, is he ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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He's biased in support of Bamber. How do I know ?  I just gave you the Youtube link. Which you said you have already heard.

So he's not going to call Bamber arrogant, is he ?
I don't think he's necessarily biased, he has met and spent a lot of time with Jeremy Bamber and has formed an opinion about him.  His opinion may be right or wrong but it is his opinion which I'm sure he has made in good faith  that is fair enough, isn't it? 

Offline susan

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I don't think he's necessarily biased, he has met and spent a lot of time with Jeremy Bamber and has formed an opinion about him.  His opinion may be right or wrong but it is his opinion which I'm sure he has made in good faith  that is fair enough, isn't it?

Hello Maggie

why would the guy be biased he formed an opinion which he is entitled to do and that is good enough for me ;D

Offline maggie

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Hello Maggie

why would the guy be biased he formed an opinion which he is entitled to do and that is good enough for me ;D
exactly Susie. :)

Offline mike tesko

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The original indictment charge details and witness list:-
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 08:41:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...