Ending the SJ/1 nonsense once and for all

[Adam]

The one which was unplugged ? Which would have had fresh prints on it ? No excuses please.

Fresh prints ? I have never heard of that before.

Well the defence or prosecution didn't ask about that. Whether his fingerprints were on it or not is neither here or there. He may have worn gloves. If his finger prints were on there he would just say he was often at WHF.
 

[Caroline]

The one which was unplugged ? Which would have had fresh prints on it ? No excuses please.

Yeah, the cleaners prints would have been on it, it was her who moved the magazines but there would be nothing unusual in finding Jeremy's prints on it.

[lookout]

Yeah, the cleaners prints would have been on it, it was her who moved the magazines but there would be nothing unusual in finding Jeremy's prints on it.

Fresh prints ? He wasn't living there at the time ?

[lookout]

I don't remember reading that Mrs Boutell moved it ?

[Jane]

Fresh prints ? He wasn't living there at the time ?

Neither were the cleaner and the secretary, or Sheila and the twins.

[lookout]

Neither were the cleaner and the secretary, or Sheila and the twins.

So who hid it and when,as it must have been done after the lightening strike whoever was there at the time. ? It would have appeared that there'd been plenty of fingerprinting dust everywhere ( as remarked by Basil Cock ) but not a lot of fingerprinting recorded of what belonged to whom.

[scipio_usmc]

I'm going to make another wild assumption. Did anyone think to fingerprint the phone which SOMEONE ( other than Jeremy ) hid beneath the magazines ?

Jeremy is the one who hid it there.

He is the one who:

1) Lied and claimed the kitchen phone was broken so the bedroom phone was moved to replace it

2) Hid the phone so no one would know that it wasn't broken like he claimed

3) lied when the unbroken kitchen phone was found claiming it was just an extra phone not the kitchen phone

Late June a BT engineer was called to fix the phones.  He said the kitchen phone was tested and found to be in working order.  In July he was called back because they said the upstairs office phone was having reception problems so he replaced it.  If any of the other phones had a problem then he would have been told about it.  This also demonstrates that when there was a real problem with the phone that was discovered by June or Nevill they called and complained to the phone company.
     
June and Nevill had no idea what happened to the kitchen phone because Jeremy is the one who hid it and thus didn't call to have it fixed since they didn't know where it was or what happened to it.  It was removed from the bedroom only after Sheila arrived thus Jeremy did it in anticipation of the murders. He didn't want a phone in their bedroom so that they could call police before he could kill them both.

After the murders Jeremy asserted it was broken so replaced with the bedroom phone further demonstrating he is the one who did it because he was well aware of the change.  He further lied when the real kitchen phone he hid was found by claiming it was an extra phone.  He said extra because he knew it wasn't broken so if he said it was the broken phone then he would have been caught in a lie.  But he was caught in a lie anyway because Barbara and Jean both knew he was lying and that it was the kitchen phone which he previously told them was broken.   

[lookout]

You tell a fine tale. What is worrying is that you've convinced yourself that you're right.

[scipio_usmc]

You tell a fine tale. What is worrying is that you've convinced yourself that you're right.

It is not a tale it is what the evidence established happened.

Here is the phone company agent about the phones:





Here is the person who took the cordless phone away while Sheila was visiting because they didn't want it anymore and he took the 2 way splitter as well so it was no longer possible to plug 2 phones in the kitchen, he noted the cream rotary phone normally in the bedroom was in the kitchen at the time he removed the cordless phone so that proves it was moved to the kitchen prior to the murders.





Here is where it is recounted that Jeremy lied and said the hidden phone was an extra phone though they never had an extra phone it was the phone normally kept in the kitchen and how he had previously claimed the bedroom phone was moved to the kitchen because the kitchen phone was broken



Barbara wilson




So what seems rather obvious is that in anticipation of the murders Jeremy moved the bedroom phone to the kitchen and lied and stated the kitchen phone was broken and he hid it.

He continued to tell that lie to people after the murders including to Jean.  Upon Jean finding the kitchen phone which he had hidden she tested it and found out it worked and then asked him why it was hidden.  He told her it was just a spare phone not to worry about it.  But she later thought about it and realized it was the kitchen phone which he had told her was broken.

Barbara also recognized it as the kitchen phone and she also tested it and found it working and chose to use it instead of the dial phone for the remainder of the time she worked at WHF.

Why would Jeremy lie about the phone being broken?

Why would Jeremy lie about the hidden phone that he claimed was broken but actually wasn't just being a spare phone?

The answer is obvious and it is not good for Jeremy supporters like you.   While you can willingly close your eyes to evidence you can't force other people to do so and that is a big roadblock when trying to establish Jeremy's innocence to others. 

[lookout]

You seem to forget that there were also others inside the farmhouse who would have been quite capable of hiding the phone.Why blame Jeremy ? Talk about giving a dog a bad name,everyone had him hung drawn and quartered as soon as this tragedy occurred. Nobody bothered to investigate any further,and to my mind it's NOT a case of " beyond reasonable doubt " at all.There are too many anomalies and unanswered questions.It's a farce.
I'm not the one who's blind or blinkered !!

[Caroline]

You seem to forget that there were also others inside the farmhouse who would have been quite capable of hiding the phone.Why blame Jeremy ? Talk about giving a dog a bad name,everyone had him hung drawn and quartered as soon as this tragedy occurred. Nobody bothered to investigate any further,and to my mind it's NOT a case of " beyond reasonable doubt " at all.There are too many anomalies and unanswered questions.It's a farce.
I'm not the one who's blind or blinkered !!

There is a reason why Jeremy would hide the phone, there is no reason for anyone else to do so. Suggesting it might have been Sheila contradicts the notion that she killed everyone in a psychotic episode.

[guest7363]

You seem to forget that there were also others inside the farmhouse who would have been quite capable of hiding the phone.Why blame Jeremy ? Talk about giving a dog a bad name,everyone had him hung drawn and quartered as soon as this tragedy occurred. Nobody bothered to investigate any further,and to my mind it's NOT a case of " beyond reasonable doubt " at all.There are too many anomalies and unanswered questions.It's a farce.
I'm not the one who's blind or blinkered !!

No everyone didn't have him hung drawn and quartered as soon as it happened,  they thought it was murder suicide by Sheila,  they didn't bother to investigate any further because Bamber had led them to believe that.  Whether you agree with it or not the investigation was a shambles led by Taff Jones who Jeremy's supporters hold in high esteem.  He earned his own bad name afterwards. 

[Adam]

There are threads on the police investigation.

They couldn't change direction until evidence of the crime scene was processed. Which took time. This showed Sheila could not have committed the massacre.

They also got lucky with Julie's approach after a month and the silencer results from the lab, around the same time. 

Until they had all this evidence they had to assume it was murder/suicide. The only witness was Jeremy who said he received a phone call from Neville and that Sheila was a 'nutter' who could fire guns.

They also needed to do checks on Jeremy and see if there was a motive and had to look for circumstantial evidence.  As well as do checks on Sheila.

Can't blame them for not finding the silencer. However the disposal of items was too soon.

If people blame the police early on, then Taff Jones must take the blame.

[Jane]

You seem to forget that there were also others inside the farmhouse who would have been quite capable of hiding the phone.Why blame Jeremy ? Talk about giving a dog a bad name,everyone had him hung drawn and quartered as soon as this tragedy occurred. Nobody bothered to investigate any further,and to my mind it's NOT a case of " beyond reasonable doubt " at all.There are too many anomalies and unanswered questions.It's a farce.
I'm not the one who's blind or blinkered !!

So was it Sheila, in a moment of lucidity from her psychosis, who stole into her parents bedroom and removed the phone, suggesting that she may have previously planned the whole thing down to the last detail OR was it the police who decided it would be fun to see if they could incriminate ANYONE rather than Sheila, despite initially believing it was her.

[lookout]

So was it Sheila, in a moment of lucidity from her psychosis, who stole into her parents bedroom and removed the phone, suggesting that she may have previously planned the whole thing down to the last detail OR was it the police who decided it would be fun to see if they could incriminate ANYONE rather than Sheila, despite initially believing it was her.

In actual fact,there's a simple enough explanation for the phone to have been hidden under a pile of magazines. Farmhouses by their very nature are places of work,particularly living/dining areas,pantries and other rooms off the main kitchen area.
Because people were in and out,coming and going,it would have been the hardest place to have kept tidy and free from disruption so stuff would be moved from one chair to another and so on. More than likely after the telephone engineer had gone,arrangements of where to put what phone where,began as they were one phone down which was being repaired.
Maybe mid-job it had been forgotten so clothes/mags/newspapers were piled on the chair,with the phone forgotten about under an array of items which had been moved from one place to another.
Noticeably,there were a couple of newspapers on the breakfast table whicvh could have originated from the heap on the chair in which the phone lay hidden.
No doubt nobody knew where the damn thing was so therefore took the one from the bedroom to use in the kitchen.
It was Mrs Boutell who'd called them " musical phones " because she never knew where they'd be from one week to another,so it's NO mystery that the phone was missing. When I first saw a pic of the kitchen/butlers pantry,I remember remarking that a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that mess,so it's no wonder nobody couldn't find anything.

It's just that it suits the scenario of the conviction that most say Jeremy hid it,that's all. There's nothing sinister attached to its " disappearance ". It's all in your minds. Keep taking the tablets.