Police log contents, and position of bodies in photographs don't add up, CRIKEY.

[mike tesko]

FACTS...

(1) - PC Bird took the photographs showing the position and location of the 5 victims bodies, after 10 O' clock on the morning of 7th August 1985...

(2) - police log message timed at 7.37am, reads, "the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female found upon entry"...

(3) - police log message timed at 7.38am, reads, "one dead male, one dead female"...

(4) - police message log timed at 7.42am, reads, "can someone contact the police surgeon and coroners officer regarding two bodies"...

(5) - police message, timed at 7.45am, reads, "can you come into the office because police are dealing with an incident at whf, involving a murder, and a suicide"...

(6) - police message log timed at 8.10am, reads, "after a thorough search a further three bodies found upstairs, five dead in total"...

[mike tesko]

At the trial stage, PC Bird was called to testify, confirming the order with which he took the crime scene photographs contained in (a) THE COURT ALBUM, consisting of 50 photographs. He also produced a schedule showing the sequence with which these photographs were taken from amongst (b) THE MASTER COPY ALBUM, consisting of 223 photographs...

The gist of what PC Bird had to say, was to confirm that SOCO did not take control of the scene until 10 O' clock that morning, and therefore he did not start taking any photographs at the scene, until sometime after 10 O' clock...

[mike tesko]

There was no mention, and no reference to (c) THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM, consisting of 581 photographs.Many of these photographs contained in this album were still images taken from the crime scene video footage, taken by DS Davidson at the scene between 9 and 10 O' clock that morning. The crime scene video was recorded in two parts, marked (1) and (2)...

[mike tesko]

It remains possible, that DS Davidson commenced the duty of video recording the crime scene 10 to 15 minutes sooner than 9 O' clock, say at around 8.45am, or very soon after DR Craig had pronounced all 5 victims dead at 8.44am. This may have happened as a result of disparity in time keeping between one or more police clocks being out of sequence when measured against the clocks in the control and incident rooms...

[mike tesko]

None of the firearms officers responsible for entering the farmhouse at just after 7.30am, who passed radio messages at 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 8.10am, were called to testify and be cross examined during the trial, to confirm that the position and location of the 5 bodies as shown by PC Birds photographs taken at the scene after 10 O' clock accurately reflected where the bodies had been found by them...

This was because many of the firearms officers refused to attend court and be put in the position of having to delibrrately lie about that / this / it...

[mike tesko]

Police explanation using PC Collins to try and explain away the confusion surrounding where inside the farmhouse the bodies of victims had been found, does not stand up to scrutiny...

[mike tesko]

Police explanation using PC Collins to try and explain away the confusion surrounding where inside the farmhouse the bodies of victims had been found, does not stand up to scrutiny...

Collins deals with the sighting of a dead female behind a door, before entry was made via the rear external entry door, whereas Collins explanation seeks to justify that he made a mistake by claiming that once he got into the farmhouse, he realised his mistake. But this does not accord with the spoken word recorded in the police logs. Since, in these logs, it clearly states that no such mistake could have taken place, because the logs confirm that the bodies of one dead male, and one dead female, were found upon entry, and this is reaffirmed during two further messages passed over the next 5 minutes (7.37 - 7.42am). Finally, the fact that 2 bodies and not one body, had been found downstairs by police entering the farmhouse is further confirmed by reference in the logs to a message (8.10am) passed, confirming discovery of only 3 further bodies upstairs, totalling 5 dead in total...

If there had been the mistake in misidentifying one body for two upon entry in accordance with Collins explanation, this mistake would surely have been rectified by the time police completed the first search of the premises by 8.10am, yet 33 minutes after the discovery of 2 bodies downstairs (7.37am) only a further 3 bodies are discovered upstairs (8.10am). No explanation has ever been forthcoming to account for the absent 4th body upstairs in the police logs...

[scipio_usmc]

FACTS...

(1) - PC Bird took the photographs showing the position and location of the 5 victims bodies, after 10 O' clock on the morning of 7th August 1985...

(2) - police log message timed at 7.37am, reads, "the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female found upon entry"...

(3) - police log message timed at 7.38am, reads, "one dead male, one dead female"...

(4) - police message log timed at 7.42am, reads, "can someone contact the police surgeon and coroners officer regarding two bodies"...

(5) - police message, timed at 7.45am, reads, "can you come into the office because police are dealing with an incident at whf, involving a murder, and a suicide"...

(6) - police message log timed at 8.10am, reads, "after a thorough search a further three bodies found upstairs, five dead in total"...

Fact: Bird and all crime scene police say photos were taken of the bodies before they moved he bodies in any way.

Fact: Collins looked in the window and reported seeing an elderly female body in the kitchen.

Fact: Upon entry Collins and the other raid team members discovered it was Nevill and reported it was Nevill.

Fact: Such was incorrectly reported to the dispatcher keeping the log as 2 bodies being discovered in the kitchen

Fact: No one suggested a gun was found in the kitchen or a gun near the body of anyone found in the kitchen

Fact: No one suggested a young woman's body was ever in the kitchen

Fact: No one suggested the body in the kitchen was Sheila

Fact: All eyewitnesses say there was a single body in the kitchen and that it was the location where  Nevill's body was found

Fact: the only blood was near Nevill's body there was no blood or other evidence in the room to indicate a body was elsewhere than the location where Nevill's was found

Fact: it is a lie that the log indicates 3 further bodies were found upstairs.  The log simply indicates three further bodies found:

 

The log doesn't expressly state a male and female were found in the kitchen either.  The log states police entered and 2 bodies were found 1 male 1 female.  Jeremy supporters suggest this must mean 2 bodies were instantly found in the kitchen but it doesn't expressly state such and doesn't necessarily mean that.  It is quite possible that by the time the dispatcher was notified of the entry that Nevill and June had both been found by police and the dispatcher was being notified of such.  Police saw June's body by using a mirror before they actually went into the rooms. She was in the doorway so they could see her body and reported the find before they actually went in and thoroughly investigated the room. 



the log was written by someone with no personal knowledge of anything.  The testimony of the eyewitnesses and physical evidence is what matters and such evidence proves beyond question that Sheila's body was found by police in the bedroom.  The dry pool of blood that formed from the blood that went down the side of her neck dried by the time police got there and that is where all police say her body was including the doctor who declared her dead.

[mike tesko]

Just to reiterate the known facts of the matter:-

(1)- none of the firearm officers who first entered the farmhouse, attended the trial to repeat the contents written in the witness statements made in thier names. They did not attend, and in any event none of them were prepared to testify in court under sworn oath that Sheila's body was first and foremost found upon entry to the upstairs bedroom, because to do so would have resulted in all of them being prosecuted for telling blatent lies about that matter, as per the content of the written citation at the commencement of thier false witness statements, which stipulates that if they have stated anything which they know to be false, or if they include anything which they know not to be true, they shall be liable to prosecution if the statement in question was to ever be tended into evidence...

Hence, the reason why none of them had the courage to attend the trial and repeat the nonsense in the witness statements made in thier names...

[mike tesko]

It is not the content of witness statements that is evidence, it is the actual giving of that evidence in court under oath that counts. Furthermore, if a witness is summoned to testify during court proceedings, and they give a different version of the evidence than is given in the witness statement made in thier name, they are most likely to face prosecution, particularly if they agree whilst testifying that the contents if their witness statement is false, or they accept that they know parts contained within it are not true...

This is why many witnesses who make witness statements, don't attend court to testify, because they are not prepared to lie and get themselves prosecuted...

[mike tesko]

Let's get the facts right, if PS Adams had attended the trial in October 1986, and had been presented with the crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird, from 10 O' clock onward, Adams would almost certainly have said that the position of Sheila Caffells head in relation to its position measured against the bedside cabinet in Birds photographs, was closer to the bedside cabinet when Bird took the photographs, than the distance away from the same bedside cabinet at the time he (Adams) viewed Sheila's body at around 9am, that same morning. Furthermore, PS Adams would have testified if he had been given the opportunity, to the effect that at the time he viewed Sheila's body in the bedroom, that there had not been any weapon resting on her body, by that stage.

Is that an accurate analysis of what PS Adams would have said, if he had been summoned to attend the trial held in October 1986, to testify?

Of course it is..,

[scipio_usmc]

Just to reiterate the known facts of the matter:-

(1)- none of the firearm officers who first entered the farmhouse, attended the trial to repeat the contents written in the witness statements made in thier names. They did not attend, and in any event none of them were prepared to testify in court under sworn oath that Sheila's body was first and foremost found upon entry to the upstairs bedroom, because to do so would have resulted in all of them being prosecuted for telling blatent lies about that matter, as per the content of the written citation at the commencement of thier false witness statements, which stipulates that if they have stated anything which they know to be false, or if they include anything which they know not to be true, they shall be liable to prosecution if the statement in question was to ever be tended into evidence...

Hence, the reason why none of them had the courage to attend the trial and repeat the nonsense in the witness statements made in thier names...

Few police were called to testify at the trial.  The prosecution didn't need all of them to testify.  The defense didn't call them to testify because the defense knew they had nothing helpful to Jeremy they could ask them. 

Trying to suggest that because they were not called this means their statements are false is sheer nonsense. It seems that the only thing you are able to raise in support of Jeremy is nonsense though so little surprise...

[mike tesko]

Few police were called to testify at the trial.  The prosecution didn't need all of them to testify.  The defense didn't call them to testify because the defense knew they had nothing helpful to Jeremy they could ask them. 

Trying to suggest that because they were not called this means their statements are false is sheer nonsense. It seems that the only thing you are able to raise in support of Jeremy is nonsense though so little surprise...

if you stop being disrepectful I might respond to your opinions...

[scipio_usmc]

Let's get the facts right, if PS Adams had attended the trial in October 1986, and had been presented with the crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird, from 10 O' clock onward, Adams would almost certainly have said that the position of Sheila Caffells head in relation to its position measured against the bedside cabinet in Birds photographs, was closer to the bedside cabinet when Bird took the photographs, than the distance away from the same bedside cabinet at the time he (Adams) viewed Sheila's body at around 9am, that same morning. Furthermore, PS Adams would have testified if he had been given the opportunity, to the effect that at the time he viewed Sheila's body in the bedroom, that there had not been any weapon resting on her body, by that stage.

Is that an accurate analysis of what PS Adams would have said, if he had been summoned to attend the trial held in October 1986, to testify?

Of course it is..,

The actual facts are that Adams didn't see the bodies until after the raid team was done clearing the scene.  He stayed outside with the bigwigs including Montgomery who was his superior.  He ran through quickly so he could spend maximum time with the big wigs before he departed the scene.  By the time he gave his statement he could not remember if the gun was on her body or not and didn't notice how many wounds she had.  Since Adams didn't pay much attention and was uncertain he would not have been able to help establish ALL the police were lying about where her body was.  Nor would his uncertain testimony have been able to rebut the blood evidence proving she was on the floor.

The claim there were photos taken of her on bed is simply made up by you along with your nonsense story of seeing such photos, stealing 1 and mailing it to Jeremy.

[scipio_usmc]

if you stop being disrepectful I might respond to your opinions...

When people make up nonsense claims I state such.  I don't give respect to made up nonsense.  Respect is earned.