Author Topic: A paradox - with rifle at bedroom window, one bullet case too many linked to She  (Read 23857 times)

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Offline Jane

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Sheila had been sitting there in order to obtain a facsimile of the " pattern " on the behind part of the nightdress ? Yes ?



But the picture in question is of a duvet, not a nightdress. I just wonder how it's possible to know that there was a facsimile of that pattern on the back of a nightdress which A. one has no picture of and B the only picture we've ever been shown OR maybe the only one in existence, only shows the front. It would surely be more advantageous to show the nightdress.

Offline lookout

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But the picture in question is of a duvet, not a nightdress. I just wonder how it's possible to know that there was a facsimile of that pattern on the back of a nightdress which A. one has no picture of and B the only picture we've ever been shown OR maybe the only one in existence, only shows the front. It would surely be more advantageous to show the nightdress.





There is,somewhere on the forum,a forensic report that states there was a large patch of blood on the back of Sheila's nightdress.

Offline Jane

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There is,somewhere on the forum,a forensic report that states there was a large patch of blood on the back of Sheila's nightdress.


I went back and had a look at the picture shown. I wouldn't call any of what I saw a "large patch" and given that the primary source was on the duvet the secondary source on the nightdress would have been smaller. The MAIN point is that the picture shown, because the accompanying post doesn't say that it is a blood stained duvet, is clearly designed to give the impression that it's the back of Sheila's nightdress.

Offline lookout

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I went back and had a look at the picture shown. I wouldn't call any of what I saw a "large patch" and given that the primary source was on the duvet the secondary source on the nightdress would have been smaller. The MAIN point is that the picture shown, because the accompanying post doesn't say that it is a blood stained duvet, is clearly designed to give the impression that it's the back of Sheila's nightdress.






Because she'd sat there,lighter in weight than the pressure that you'd normally use in which to sit down,as she was injured,so it would literally have been a touch. She probably transferred the blood there anyway.

Offline Jane

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Because she'd sat there,lighter in weight than the pressure that you'd normally use in which to sit down,as she was injured,so it would literally have been a touch. She probably transferred the blood there anyway.


Your belief doesn't alter the fact that the picture shown here is NOT a nightdress. It's a duvet. We have no proof about what, if anything, is on the back of the nightdress, which if I recall was knee length or just above and may well have ridden up at the back, had she not pulled it into place when she sat down.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Correction Scipio, The initial wound on Sheila's neck did not sever a 'major artery' in Sheila's neck it was 'soft tissue haemorrhage' to the 'right external jugular vein' soft tissue bleeding from a vein is VERY different from the severance of an artery. The severance of an artery causes severe bleeding often shooting from the wound due to the pumping of the heart which propels blood through the artery. Blood in the veins is blood returning to the heart to be oxygenated and it flows it isn't pumped. This is why the amount of blood which appears to have collected under Sheila's right armpit is puzzling to me. I cannot understand how that blood settled there unless her head neck was resting near to it. Imo.? I know there are blood trails but it is still an awful lot of blood. :-\
 Also because it was a wound to a vein, not an artery this is the reason Sheila could possibly have been conscious after the first wound, it is quite possible she could have stood up and wandered about or she could have shot herself again, it is not an impossibility.

I stand corrected a major vein severed not artery. That doesn't change the fact that the blood staining indicated she had not been standing upright walking around, had she been upright the blood would have gone down her gown. Nor would it have gone down her shoulder if she was lying flat. Clearly she was seated against something at an angle sufficient to allow the blood to flow down her shoulder and side breast area. That is also why she was able to have the blood drip down her arm towards her elbow.

The jugular vein handles the blood in the head.  Her head was higher than the rest of her body and the blood in her head leaked out through gravity even after her heart stopped beating. This just confirms she was not lying flat when she was shot, she was seated propped against something.

Nor was she lying down flat when she was shot because if she had been then the blood would simply have gone down the side of her neck to the floor.  She was seated against something at an angle which caused her head to be above her shoulder and this caused the blood to flow down her shoulder/the side of her breast. 

Jeremy eventually decided to move her flat so that he could lay the gun across her body- he felt that would be the best way pf presenting as a suicide. In so doing he broke a cardinal rule, you should not move bodies because it can be detected.  He figured they would believe Sheila moved herself. Vanezis didn't put enough thought into it to use such as a basis to challenge the suicide police theory.  He seemed to annoyed by the amount of work 5 autopsies in a row is a lot and just went with the flow.

On appeal prosecution experts recognized she was seated when shot and subsequently moved flat by someone else. They rejected Vanezis' simplistic explanation that after the first shot she managed to stay seated though not propped against something, got so much blood on her shoulder/breast area in 5-10 seconds and then she instantly fell flat on her own after the second shot.  They said she would have fallen back after the first shot unless propped against something. Quite clearly Vanezis was inept in not recognizing what the experts recognized on appeal. Vanezis should have stated such to police from the outset. That could have changed the theory police were operating under. If he told police such certainly they should have changed their theory and started to investigate it differently- whether they would have who knows.  But it would have provided even more fodder when they looked at things and decided to replace Taff Jones as top dog.   

The Court of Appeals quite correctly held that the assessment was not new evidence.  They had this evidence from the outset and their failure to properly analyze it until after the conviction is too bad they could not raise it on appeal.


   



Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Caroline

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Your belief doesn't alter the fact that the picture shown here is NOT a nightdress. It's a duvet. We have no proof about what, if anything, is on the back of the nightdress, which if I recall was knee length or just above and may well have ridden up at the back, had she not pulled it into place when she sat down.

More smoke and mirrors.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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More smoke and mirrors.



I'm afraid so Caroline. Without a breath in between we are told how strange was the blood stain on the back of Sheila's nightdress and shown a picture of a blood stained duvet. What else can one possibly deduce?

Offline lookout

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I KNOW that's a sheet/cover/duvet,but it still doesn't alter the fact that the same pattern of staining appeared on the rear of Sheila's nightdress.

Offline Jane

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I KNOW that's a sheet/cover/duvet,but it still doesn't alter the fact that the same pattern of staining appeared on the rear of Sheila's nightdress.



THAT isn't what was said, Lookout. What I'm alluding to is that a picture of a duvet was presented as being that of the back of a nightdress and had it not been picked up we MAY have thought it was a blood stained nightdress. As none of us has ever seen said nightdress from the back, how are we supposed to know what was on it? Are we supposed to accept as fact, without question, everything we are told? If that is the case we only have ourselves to blame when we discover we've been made fools of.

Offline mike tesko

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You should at least make up claims that are plausible.  You expect us to believe that prior to Bird arriving to take photos that officers decided to move Sheila to the floor so they could pretend she died on the floor and yet decided to take take photos of her in bed before moving her?  That is absurd.  People who decided to lie and pretend her body was found somewhere else would not take a photo to document that they are lying.

Worse though, you want us to believe she survived for hours after receiving a wound that severed a major artery and that Dr Craig erroneously declared her dead when she was still alive until police shot her a second time.

Good God man how stupid do you think we are?  Lying to us is one thing but if you are going to lie at least make up something that will not insult our intelligence.

Suppose you beat someone to death in your house and then planned to stick them in a car and to push the car off a cliff to try to make it look like the person died in an accident.  Would you take a photo of the person dead in your house to document that is where the person died so that if someone sees the photo they can see that the person was already dead in your house and that the car accident was set up?  Give us some credit and put some real thought into what you make up- not imagination real thought.

You ought to be careful making all manner of allegations about me, you never know when I might decide to produce evidence to tip you over the edge of that big hole you've been digging yourself for quite awhile now. When, for example, are you going to admit that you have been wrong all along by claiming that Eley never manufactured 35 grain .22 ammunition (you are wrong, of course), and like I have been saying all along, they did...

Don't make up lies about me, without having concrete proof that what your saying about me is absolutely true - you lost this time, and you have many more disappointments to face in the fortcoming days. I can now prove that Eley did manufacture 35 grain .22 ammunition...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 07:29:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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THAT isn't what was said, Lookout. What I'm alluding to is that a picture of a duvet was presented as being that of the back of a nightdress and had it not been picked up we MAY have thought it was a blood stained nightdress. As none of us has ever seen said nightdress from the back, how are we supposed to know what was on it? Are we supposed to accept as fact, without question, everything we are told? If that is the case we only have ourselves to blame when we discover we've been made fools of.






I was only t'other way around. ;D ;D

Offline mike tesko

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Your verbal diarrhea has failed to address let alone refute the evidence I presented.  Name calling will not change the fact that she was told she was facing the kitchen side of the house, the people she replaced were on the kitchen side of the house, she had to have been on the kitchen side to see the raid team enter, she isolated only one upper window clad in gray brick- which is the case only on the kitchen side of the house the front has all 3 upper floor windows clad in gray. In addition we know the people who were at the actual red/white containment location and they don't mention here in fact  she mentioned that one of them was at the containment position to her right. 

The bottom line is that even though we know for a fact she was at the white location, you want to take her ERROR where she misidentified the position as the red/white so you could pretend she faced the front of the house so you could pretend that she was looking in the master bedroom window though the description of the window surrounded by gray brick doesn't isolate the bedroom since all 3 upper windows are surrounded by gray brick and even to pretend she definitely saw a rifle barrel leaning against the window sill though she has no idea what she saw and you even want to pretend it was the Anschutz rifle though countless witnesses say it was on her body while Jeapes was looking at whatever she was looking at. 

You seem to love digging holes did you work in a cemetery by any chance?

You can't be covering white / red sides by standing only on white side - you thick idiot...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Your belief doesn't alter the fact that the picture shown here is NOT a nightdress. It's a duvet. We have no proof about what, if anything, is on the back of the nightdress, which if I recall was knee length or just above and may well have ridden up at the back, had she not pulled it into place when she sat down.

The blood stain on the rear of Sheila's nightdress as shown on the official 'GENERAL LAB' EXAMINATION RECORD', is A factual account of the size and shape of the blood stain on the reverse of the nightdress, and the diagrammatic image showing the characterize of the staining is admissible evidence in court proceedings. More worryingly, why haven't the police photographed the rear of the nightdress? Was it because it would alert Bamber and those representing his interests at trial, might have cottoned in to the fact that Sheila really had been laying on the bed, before her body was moved to the floor...

More disturbingly, since there was very little blood which ran out from the original non fatal wound on her neck, and according to the police case, there were only a few spots of June Bambers blood on the rug beneath where Sheila's body ended up being photographed, the blood on the rear of Sheila's nightdress got there from the bed where she had previously laid, before her body was moved to the floor - there being insufficient of her own blood from the first wound on her throat to cause the aforementioned blood staining on the rear of the nightdress...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 08:04:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Then unique blood staining on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress ND/3,  got there when she was previously laid on her back on the top of the bed in the main bedroom. Exactly where DS Jones had seen Sheila's body, as recounted to Ann Eaton at Jeremy's cottage, on the morning of the shootings. The unique blood stain on the rear of exhibit ND/3, did not transfer onto the rug once police moved her body to the floor, because by the time they moved Sheila from the bed to the floor at the side of the bed, the blood had already dried..,
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...