Author Topic: A paradox - with rifle at bedroom window, one bullet case too many linked to She  (Read 23809 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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The contention that one of the police clocks was 10 minutes fast, applied to both timed calls, not just one

No it didn't, Bonnett insisted the time in the HQ Information Room was accurate and no one was found who claimed otherwise.

"MY DAUGHTER HAS GOT ONE OF MY GUNS"

That is what Bonnett recorded Jeremy as claiming Nevill said.  It clearly states this message was passed to Jeremy and then reported by Jeremy to West and from West to Bonnett.

I agree, Neville did not make the 3.36am call to police (adjusted backwards to 3.26am), but he certainly received Ralphs call timed at 3.26am, (Adjusted back 10 minutes to 3.16am)

There was no call from Nevill, Jeremy was on the phone speaking to West and then placed on hold at 3:26 so that at 3:26 West was on the phone with Bonnett.  Bonnett was speaking to West he coudl not receive a call from anyone else at 3:26. 


As I say, not Ralph in the 3.36 / 3.26am call, but certainly Ralph, in the 3.26 / 3.16am, call .  two entirely different calls, which police have cleverly tried to merge into the same call.

There is zero evidence of two calls.  All you have done is made up the claim of two calls though Nevill was clearly dead already at the time you claim he called police.  Police would have told Jeremy had such a call been made and would have used it to support their view of Sheila being responsible had such a call been received from Nevill.  You have zero evidence just allegations.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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No it didn't, Bonnett insisted the time in the HQ Information Room was accurate and no one was found who claimed otherwise.

That is what Bonnett recorded Jeremy as claiming Nevill said. You need to read the official court transcript where it mentions the contents of a witness statement which presents what Jeremy told police, and how that content does not correspond with the contents of the 3.36am phone log   It clearly states this message was passed to Jeremy The http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/Themes/curvemavi/images/bbc/orderlist.gifStatement contents  is different to the phone log (3.36am) and then reported by Jeremy to West and from West to Bonnett. inaccurate hearsay evidence, not admissible

There was no call from Nevill, yes, I am afraid there was You have made this up, police say the call was received at 3.36 / 3.26am, and not a moment sooner Jeremy was on the phone speaking to West and then placed on hold at 3:26 so that at 3:26 West was on the phone with Bonnett.  Bonnett was speaking to West he coudl not receive a call from anyone else at 3:26. Jeremy was put on hold because the police were already dealing with Ralphs earlier call to them

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/Themes/curvemavi/images/bbc/orderlist.gif
There is zero evidence of two calls Two different logs, timed at 10 minutes a part is evidence .  All you have done is made up the claim of two calls though Nevill was clearly dead already at the time you claim he called police No, he was not already dead at the time he made the 3.26 / 3.16am call to the police. His bloodied fingermarks on the edge of the kitchen worktop is testimony to the fact that Ralph was still alive when that call was made .  Police would have told Jeremy had such a call been made Why?and would have used it to support their view of Sheila being responsible which for the first month is exactly what they did had such a call been received from Nevill.  You have zero evidence just allegations I have an abundance of evidence not yet relied upon .
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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You need to read the official court transcript where it mentions the contents of a witness statement which presents what Jeremy told police, and how that content does not correspond with the contents of the 3.36am phone log

What Jeremy told West does correspond with what West told Bonnett. The desperate spin to say otherwise is just that- desperate spin which is unsupported rubbish.  This desperation is very telling- Jeremy supporters know that the evidence is squarely against Jerely and have nothing valid to support him thus have to resort to desperate made up claims to pretend there is evidence that supports him and that includes this made up fairy tale that Nevill called police.  No one who is objective and rational believes such unsupported claims they scoff at them.  Far from helping, when people resort to such desperation it hurts their cause.  It highlights the lack of anything valid to raise and underscores guilt.

Statement contents  is different to the phone log (3.36am)

The contents do not differ. The same things Jeremy alleged to West that Nevill told him over the phone and which West testified he passed to Bonnett were contained in Bonnett's log.  Jeremy didn't  know Sheila's last name and thus called her Sheila Bamber which was the same thing passed to Bonnett. The caller is recorded as West not Nevill.  In contrast on West's form the caller has Jeremy's name and address. That is what would be on Bonnett's form had Nevill phoned- Nevill's name and address would be in the caller field. The made up claim that Nevill phoned police falls apart on so many levels.  This claim hurts tremendously because when people realize the entire thing is just a made up nonsense they figure all the claims made on Bamber's wesbite by the campaign team is made up nonsense and for the most part they are right.  Bamber's campaign team uses deception to try to convince people he is innocent rather than being able to point to anything legitimate.


inaccurate hearsay evidence, not admissible

You have things totally backwards as usual.  The logs would normally be considered hearsay but are excepted from hearsay as business records.  The testimony of West and Bonnett are significant evidence not hearsay. They both gave written statements and West testified at the trial. West testified because he actually fielded Jeremy's call while Bonnett only fielded a call from West so was not a critical witness. to establish a call from Nevill you would have to have someone testify they received a call from Nevill.  but no one ever received a call from Nevill, no one ever claimed to someone else verbally that they received a call from Nevill, no one ever recorded anywhere that they received a call from Nevill and no one took any action on the basis of receiving any call from Nevill.  Police responding to the scene were told of Jeremy's call and told they were responding because of his claims. Since Jeremy was the complainant they asked Jeremy to go to the scene and meet police.  If Nevill had phoned then they would to have done that.  The allegation that Nevill phoned police has zero evidentiary support and clearly didn't happen.

If Nevill phoned then Jeremy would have been told of his call and police would not have taken down Nevill's name address and so forth from Jeremy because they already would have had the information and would have told Jeremy a police car is already en route.

"There was no call from Nevill"
yes, I am afraid there was

You have produced zero evidence of a call and the basis upon which you have decided such a call was made doesn't support such at all it demonstrates desperate spinning to pretend.  It is as dishonest as your claim you saw photos of Sheila's body in other locations than where police say her body was found.



You have made this up, police say the call was received at 3.36 / 3.26am, and not a moment sooner

You make things up I follow evidence where it leads.  West conceded that 3:36 could have been the time at the end of the call.  Bonnett recorded 3:26 as the time that WEST PHONED HIM. That means by definition Jeremy had to have called West prior to 3:26. By Jeremy's own admission West spoke to him for quite some time asking for information before placing Jeremy on hold and then phoning Bonnett.  To hear out Jeremy's full story and write down all the information would take several minutes so realistically he called West 3:24 at the earliest.

The simple reality is that the times on both logs were not supposed to match.  The time on West's log was supposed to record the time Jeremy's call was received whereas the time on Bonnett's was recording the time that West phoned Bonnett. They are recording different calls. West screwed up and either wrote the time at the end of the call or several minutes in and misread the clock at that point or the clock was off.  It doesn't matter if the clock read 3:36 when it was really 3:24 or he screwed up and recorded the time after he hung up because he forgot to record the time at the outset in all the excitement.  Either way it doesn't support a call from Nevill. Making up that this does support a call form Nevill amounts to dishonest, desperate spinning nothing more.


Jeremy was put on hold because the police were already dealing with Ralphs earlier call to them

Jeremy was placed on hold so West could contact Bonnett and arrange to dispatch a police car to WHF.  West and Bonnett agree that West contacted him while Jeremy was on hold. That is what they put in their statements and what West testified to. At 3:26 is when West phoned Bonnett and Bonnett was already on the phone with him at that point so his phone was busy he was unable to field a call from Nevill at 3:26.  If Nevill had tried to call at 3:26 his call would have gone to a different operator than Bonnett. There was more than one phone station in operation in the HQ Information Room.  But no one claims to have received any call from Nevill. You are taking a log reflecting West's call to Bonnett (which was prompted by Jeremy's call to police) and trying to pretend that it reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett though it clearly doesn't. The bogus claim Bonnett's log reflects a call from Nevill to Bonnett is the only evidence you raise in support of a call from Nevill.  You don't have anything else- no testimony from Jeremy that he was informed Nevill called prior to his call, no police who say they were summoned to WHF as a result of a call from Nevill, no such call recorded in any of the notes of investigators, no such call reflected in any of Bonnett's statements...


Two different logs, timed at 10 minutes a part is evidence

The logs reflect two different calls- one from Jeremy to West and the other a call from West to Bonnett. By definition the timing of both calls was different because they happened at different times.  West screwed up and incorrectly recorded the time of Jeremy's call but that error doesn't in any way help support a call from Nevill to Bonnett. 


No, he was not already dead at the time he made the 3.26 / 3.16am call to the police. His bloodied fingermarks on the edge of the kitchen worktop is testimony to the fact that Ralph was still alive when that call was made

He was dead at 3:26 and his blood was no where near the phone, you made up the claim his bloody prints were near the phone like you make up so many other things.  Nevill and June were ambushed in the bedroom, he was shot 4 times during that ambush and he could not speak after that ambush.  When he left the room he could not speak so there is no way he used any phone so not only did he not call police he didn't call Jeremy.

The evidence proves Sheila didn't do anything, she was murdered so he would have had no reason to call Jeremy claiming Sheila was running around with a gun and if she had been running around with a gun he would have disarmed her himself not phone Jeremy.

You can make up any nonsense you want to try to pretend that Nevill was able to phone Jeremy and would have done so but it is not going to fool anyone who is informed, objective and intelligent.  You
might be able to fool the ignorant but the ignorant wield no power over his release so it is a useless effort.


"Police would have told Jeremy had such a call been made"
Why?

Because police are lazy and don't like to take down the same information twice when multiple people call to report the same problem and they have no need to take all the information down again,  and also like to calm people down by telling them police are already en route.

"and would have used it to support their view of Sheila being responsible"
which for the first month is exactly what they did

No they didn't.  Not once did any of the investigators cite a call from Nevill to police. It wa snot verbally cited nor in their pocketbooks or statements.  It was not discussed at all.  Had Vanezis been told of such a call he would have noted it, he even noted simply a call from Jeremy. The police sent were all told only of a call from Jeremy including both sets of firearms officers.

"You have zero evidence just allegations"
I have an abundance of evidence not yet relied upon.

Nonsense, you may be trying to fabricate an abundance of evidence to proffer in the future but would be a huge waste of time doing so.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 06:16:PM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Online Steve_uk

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This begs the question to whom the bloodied fingerprints on the blue and white chequered worktop belonged.

Offline Jan

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This begs the question to whom the bloodied fingerprints on the blue and white chequered worktop belonged.

good point

Offline Jane

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This begs the question to whom the bloodied fingerprints on the blue and white chequered worktop belonged.


I may be possible that, disoriented and injured, Neville, at some point, believed it might have been possible to get help.

Offline Jan

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I may be possible that, disoriented and injured, Neville, at some point, believed it might have been possible to get help.

Could have been someone trying to steady themselves against the unit at some stage.

Offline Jane

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Could have been someone trying to steady themselves against the unit at some stage.



That, too.

Offline scipio_usmc

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This begs the question to whom the bloodied fingerprints on the blue and white chequered worktop belonged.

There wasn't any bloody fingerprints found on it.  This is another made up claim. If Nevill had leaned on it and left prints police would have had no reason to conceal this but there were no bloody fingerprints found in the kitchen or anywhere else in the house for that matter. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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There wasn't any bloody fingerprints found on it.  This is another made up claim. If Nevill had leaned on it and left prints police would have had no reason to conceal this but there were no bloody fingerprints found in the kitchen or anywhere else in the house for that matter.



There is a photo of the work surface and phone in which it LOOKS as if there could be bloody prints on the edge of the counter top.

Offline nugnug

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    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
i would of thought bloody fingprints asuming they could a full print would be more or less proof of who did asuming the prints dident belong to june or ralph.

Offline lookout

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 Those prints didn't belong to a woman,as they looked too big a hand. As already said,it would have been Neville leaning there,maybe after having phoned.

Offline nugnug

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    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
and they couldent of been jeremy becouse if they were they would have him bang to rights

dident the phote expert say sheilas hands had blood on them.

Offline mike tesko

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Not many of you will be aware of this, but during the first month of the main investigation (SC/688/85) whilst Witham police regarded the shootings as a case of 4 murders and a suicide, Southend on Sea police investigated each of the 5 deaths as murders, and they had a local man as the main suspect, these alternative investigations had there own Crime Reference Numbers, at the heart of which was use of the anshuzt rifle, and an antique weapon...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 08:32:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Not many of you will be aware of this, but during the first month of the main investigation (SC/688/85) whilst Witham police regarded the shootings as a case of 4 murders and a suicide, Southend on Sea police investigated each of the 5 deaths as murders, and they had a local man as the main suspect, these alternative investigations had there own Crime Reference Numbers, at the heart of which was use of the anshuzt rifle, and an antique weapon...

A man named, EDEN, was arrested by Southend on Sea polce, as a possible suspect in the 5 killings...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 08:40:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...