A paradox - with rifle at bedroom window, one bullet case too many linked to She

[mike tesko]

If the gun still had ammunition in it when the killer and Nevill were in the kitchen then the killer would simply have shot Nevill Which is what he did with the last double marked round, Sheila already having wasted the other bullets shooting June upstairs in the bedroom, then the two children in the other bedroom, leaving one, yeah perhaps two rounds in the gun at the time Sheila and Ralph confronted each other downstairs in the kitchen, depending upon whether the gun had been loaded with 10 or 11 rounds at kick off time- he was beaten so the killer could reload in peace He may have been beaton with use of the rifle or he may have fallen and banged his face and his head against some hard surface or other, but if he did get beaten with use of the rifle, this was after Sheila had shot him once or maybe twice whilst downstairs in the kitchen and then shoot him.  The killer didn't decide you know what forget shooting him I will beat him unconscious first for fun then shoot him No, if Ralph was beaten with use of the gun, it was because the rifle had no more bullets inside it, and the shooter had to get the second loaded rifle to finished the job off, and lo and behold that is precisely what Sheila did.

Nevill was shot 4 times int he bedroom No, he wasn't shot at all whilst in the main bedroom, there is no evidence other than a displacement of four cartridge cases placed hyperthetically in the main bedroom scene the shots were as he was in the process or rising most likely given the angle of the shots and his left profile side was facing the killer for these shots No, he was never in the main bedroom as claimed by you, if he had been he wouldn't have left that bedroom knowing that his wife June Bamber had also been shot multiple times, and the shooter having no further bullets in the gun. If the shooter had run out of bullets as you suggest, she would have been heading downstairs toward the kitchen intent upon getting the other loaded rifle, or to reload the gun she had possession of with no bullets at all still inside it. Ralph would have ran in the opposite direction, out of the bedroom along the landing into the bathroom, remove the panel which gives access to the opposite side of the farmhouse, and used the upstairs office phone to call for an ambulance for his wounded wife, and himself. I do not believe that this is what unfolded. Nor do I agree with the prosecutions suggestion that with Ralph already shot four times non fatally that Sheila would not have been able to easily over power him. Your scenario does not make sense or add up. I suspect that you, like the prosecution prefer this scenario to prevent Ralph from ever being in a position to make either of the two calls that Ralph Bamber did make, one to Jeremy, another to the police at 3.25am..  3 bullets entered his body 1 grazed his body and was found in the room  No, I disagree with that suggestion - there was no blood matched to Ralph Bamber on that loose bullet recovered from the bedroom making that bullet unique to him.

The gun was clearly emptied into the parents then when it was unloaded Nevill or he killer ran to the kitchen with the other giving chase and then they fought.  This is the only thing that makes sense and the evidence supports it No, this cannot be correct. If your scenario were true, there would have been no need to displace four cartridge cases hypothetically into the main bedroom scenario. There was still at least one round in the rifle by the time Sheila got downstairs only to find Ralph on the phone to the police at 3.25am. She was not aware that only moments before that Ralph had also made a very brief call to Jeremy, and it was whilst Ralph was in the use of the phone whilst he spoke to police that Sheila emptied the last bullet from the rifle into his body. There are multiple blood spots on the kitchen floor directly where Ralph would have been standing whilst using the telephone, and he left a bloodied hand impression there on the edge of the kitchen worktop. All evidence capable of establishing that he received at least one non fatal shot whilst he was stood at the kitchen worktop close to the phone he had been using.

[scipio_usmc]

"If the gun still had ammunition in it when the killer and Nevill were in the kitchen then the killer would simply have shot Nevill" Which is what he did with the last double marked round, Sheila already having wasted the other bullets shooting June upstairs in the bedroom, then the two children in the other bedroom, leaving one, yeah perhaps two rounds in the gun at the time Sheila and Ralph confronted each other downstairs in the kitchen, depending upon whether the gun had been loaded with 10 or 11 rounds at kick off time- he was beaten so the killer could reload in peace He may have been beaton with use of the rifle or he may have fallen and banged his face and his head against some hard surface or other, but if he did get beaten with use of the rifle, this was after Sheila had shot him once or maybe twice whilst downstairs in the kitchen and then shoot him.

It is nonsense that the killer fired 6 shots into June, 1 into Nevill then went to shoot the twins with a single shot each before running downstairs after Nevill to shoot him a second time.   

The killer fired all 10 shots in the master bedroom 6 into June and 4 into Nevill.  Only 4 shots were fired in the kitchen, all 4 were fired in rapid succession and Nevill was dead after that.  There was no need to beat Nevill after shooting him in the kitchen.  He was beaten because the weapon was empty and wash clearly beaten with the rifle. The rifle damaged his arms and head and probably was used on his face as well though it is possible he was punched with a fist as well.

You keep ignoring reality including the reality that if the bullets had been left in the gun then they would not have had marks indicating they had been loaded and then unloaded and loaded a second time.  There was still one unfired cartridge that had similarly been loaded and unloaded previously so there had been a total of 6 that were previously loaded 5 of which were used in the murders but not consecutively.

Jeremy made up the claim he got the gun out to shoot rabbits and left it out, the entire story was contrived.  Part of this fabricated story is that he found the gun empty and thus didn't rush out right away to get the rabbits but rather grabbed a box and loaded the magazine and this took so long that by the time he got out the rabbits were gone and instead of putting the gun away he left it and the bullets out. the whole thing is made up nonsense but you are stuck with his claim that he found the gun unloaded.

The fact that 6 of the rounds had previously been loaded and unloaded doesn't in any way suggest that his tale was true but there had been 5 rounds in the gun.  On the contrary it demonstrates that instead of them leaving the magazine loaded they would unload the magazine after use. That's all it demonstrates.

"Nevill was shot 4 times in the bedroom" No, he wasn't shot at all whilst in the main bedroom, there is no evidence other than a displacement of four cartridge cases placed hyperthetically in the main bedroom scene the shots were as he was in the process or rising most likely given the angle of the shots and his left profile side was facing the killer for these shots No, he was never in the main bedroom as claimed by you, if he had been he wouldn't have left that bedroom knowing that his wife June Bamber had also been shot multiple times, and the shooter having no further bullets in the gun. If the shooter had run out of bullets as you suggest, she would have been heading downstairs toward the kitchen intent upon getting the other loaded rifle, or to reload the gun she had possession of with no bullets at all still inside it. Ralph would have ran in the opposite direction, out of the bedroom along the landing into the bathroom, remove the panel which gives access to the opposite side of the farmhouse, and used the upstairs office phone to call for an ambulance for his wounded wife, and himself. I do not believe that this is what unfolded. Nor do I agree with the prosecutions suggestion that with Ralph already shot four times non fatally that Sheila would not have been able to easily over power him. Your scenario does not make sense or add up. I suspect that you, like the prosecution prefer this scenario to prevent Ralph from ever being in a position to make either of the two calls that Ralph Bamber did make, one to Jeremy, another to the police at 3.25am..  3 bullets entered his body 1 grazed his body and was found in the room  No, I disagree with that suggestion - there was no blood matched to Ralph Bamber on that loose bullet recovered from the bedroom making that bullet unique to him.

The master bedroom had the bullet that grazed Nevill as well as the 4 casings associated with the 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom.  If he were downstairs at the time of the shooting he would have armed himself. If he were fully upright then Sheila would have aimed the gun upwards to shoot Nevill in the shoulder and face.  The fact these shots had a downward trajectory indicates he wasn't fully upright.  You claim Sheila did it for sure Sheila could not shoot him in those locations while he was fully upright unless she was standing on something.  There is zilch o suggest police moved any casings to the bedroom or the bullet that grazed Nevill to the bedroom.  You just assert such because the truth of how the murders went down implicates Jeremy.

As for saying Nevill would have run to the phone instead of preventing the killer from reloading- nonsense. 1) he couldn't speak because of the injuries 2) His priority was to prevent the killer from reloading and then finishing off him and the rest of the family.  Either Nevill ran to the kitchen to get a weapon with the killer chasing him or Nevill chased the killer to try to disarm the killer and same himself and his family.  Police would not be able to get there in time to do anything even if his vocal cord had not been severed his priority was self-preservation/defense of his family.

That is why there was no blood on the phone, he never picked up the kitchen phone Jeremy took it off the hook and left it that way.

   
 

No, this cannot be correct. If your scenario were true, there would have been no need to displace four cartridge cases hypothetically into the main bedroom scenario. There was still at least one round in the rifle by the time Sheila got downstairs only to find Ralph on the phone to the police at 3.25am. She was not aware that only moments before that Ralph had also made a very brief call to Jeremy, and it was whilst Ralph was in the use of the phone whilst he spoke to police that Sheila emptied the last bullet from the rifle into his body. There are multiple blood spots on the kitchen floor directly where Ralph would have been standing whilst using the telephone, and he left a bloodied hand impression there on the edge of the kitchen worktop. All evidence capable of establishing that he received at least one non fatal shot whilst he was stood at the kitchen worktop close to the phone he had been using.

It is only in your mind that 4 casings and the bullet that grazed Nevill was moved to the bedroom.  Police had no reason to move anything and there is zero evidence they did. The locations of the casings was set forth long before they ever considered Jeremy a suspect.

Nevill never phoned Jeremy or anyone else.  He was shot int he bedroom then fought for his life to prevent the killer from reloading and finishing off the family but he lost the fight and the killer reloaded, shot him dead then used 8 shots on the boys 2 on Sheila and one on June to "make sure".

You are fighting the truth about the order of the shots tooth and nail because even though Sheila could have been the last one killed the order rules out Nevill phoning Jeremy and that is just as damning as the moderator evidence because without a call from Nevill the only way Jeremy could have known anything happened would be if he had been there.

 

[mike tesko]

It is nonsense No it is not nonsense, that is only your opinion with little or no regard to features of Jeremy Bambers defence positionthat the killer fired 6 shots into June, 1 into Nevill then went to shoot the twins with a single shot each before running downstairs after Nevill to shoot him a second time It makes perfect sense and the location of the double marked cartridge cases supports this being the actual sequence of events.   

The killer fired all 10 shots No, she did not, the location of these 5 double marked cartridge cases in the main bedroom, the childrens bedroom and the kitchen fits snugly with the fact that Ralph managed to get downstairs to use the kitchen phone, and that he succeeded in making a very brief call to Jeremy at just before 3.25am, before he also phoned the police at 3.25am, telling them that his daughter has got hold of one of his guns, etc in the master bedroom 6 into June and 4 into Nevill.  Only 4 shots were fired in the kitchen Again, you are wrong. if June and Ralph had been shot in the main bedroom with the first full load of that rifle, then all five of the double marked cartridge cases would have been found and recovered from the main bedroom. The fact that they weren't tells its own story. The shooter did not empty the gun in the main bedroom, but moved through the farmhouse going from one room to another in keeping with the position of these 5 double marked cartridge cases found in the main bedroom (2), two in the childrens bedroom (2), and one downstairs in the kitchen (1), all 4 were fired in rapid succession and Nevill was dead after that Ralph did not die until the first of the four fatal head shots had been inflicted, but he was certainly shot on at least three other occasions whilst present inside the kitchen.  There was no need to beat Nevill after shooting him in the kitchen Yes, but Sheila did shoot him after hitting him with the rifle, and him falling around onto the floor, which gave Sheila the opportunity to take possession of the other loaded rifle and finish Ralph off, with another 4 head shots, each of which would have killed him outright individually, and collectively .  He was beaten because the weapon was empty yesand wash clearly beaten with the rifle. The rifle damaged his arms and head and probably was used on his face as well though it is possible he was punched with a fist as well I don't think Sheila punched Ralph during the attack they were both involved in.

You keep ignoring reality including the reality that if the bullets had been left in the gun then they would not have had marks indicating they had been loaded and then unloaded and loaded a second time Stop speaking on my behalf, you don't know what I might say, or when, I can speak for myself thank you very much. I am not claiming that which you are trying to allege on my behalf. There is clearly nothing to prevent those 5 double marked rounds to have been loaded into the magazine of the gun, on some other unrelated occasion, then removed by somebody, and at some time reloaded into the magazine of the gun again - this would be the state of the ammunition when on the evening of 6th August 1985, Jeremy came along intending to shoot rabbits he'd seen behind the barn, not knowing whether or not there were any bullets still loaded up in the rifles ammunition magazine. I don't see a problem with Jeremy loading additional new rounds into the same magazine. It all fits snugly together with no complication other than thereafter working out the sequence with which the double marked rounds were discharged in a particular pecking order. I have done the calculations, and with two double marked cartridge cases in the main bedroom, two more double marked cartridge cases in the childrens bedroom, and one double magazine marked cartridge case in the kitchen, tells us all that the shooter did not remain static inside the main bedroom intending to use all the bullets up in trying to kill Ralph and June there. The shooter moved from the main bedroom, to the childrens bedroom, then downstairs to the kitchen. After shooting Ralph in the kitchen, there were no more bullets in the gun, the rest is history.  There was still one unfired cartridge that had similarly been loaded and unloaded previously so there had been a total of 6 that were previously loaded 5 of which were used in the murders but not consecutively It does not make any sense for these double marked rounds not to have been fired together in a sequence, one after the other..

Jeremy made up the claim he got the gun out to shoot rabbits and left it out, the entire story was contrived No, he did not make anything up, he has told the truth about that / this..  Part of this fabricated story is that he found the gun empty Jeremy never claimed the rifle was empty of bullets, he told Jones and Jones that there were already some rounds in the gun when he put new bullets inand thus didn't rush out right away to get the rabbits but rather grabbed a box and loaded the magazine and this took so long that by the time he got out the rabbits were gone and instead of putting the gun away he left it and the bullets out. the whole thing is made up nonsense but you are stuck with his claim that he found the gun unloaded I am not stuck with anything, as you put it, because there is only you saying that Jeremy found the gun empty. If you take that stance then obviously you must accept that he did get the rifle intending to shoot rabbits he'd seen behind the barns.

The fact that 6 of the rounds had previously been loaded and unloaded 5 rounds with double magazine marks on them, not 6 doesn't in any way suggest that his tale was true but there had been 5 rounds in the gun.  On the contrary it demonstrates that instead of them leaving the magazine loaded they would unload the magazine after use That is simply your opinion, others might agree with you, or disagree with you, an opinion like that is not evidence of its own accord. That's all it demonstrates Naturally, I disagree with your biased opinion.



The master bedroom had the bullet that grazed Nevill as well as the 4 casings associated with the 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom No, your wrong, police had to introduce 4 cartridge cases hyperthetically into the main bedroom scenario, to enable the argument that Ralph had been shot four times there, but that claim is a false one .  If he were downstairs at the time of the shooting he would have armed himself I believe he did, at some point he took possession of a loaded 12 bore shotgun, but by the time police seized this shotgun the shotgun cartridge had been fired.. If he were fully upright then Sheila would have aimed the gun upwards to shoot Nevill in the shoulder and face.  The fact these shots had a downward trajectory indicates he wasn't fully upright Sheila was above Ralph when she shot him in the main kitchen.  You claim Sheila did it for sure Sheila could not shoot him in those locations while he was fully upright When Sheila shot Ralph in the kitchen, Ralph did not remain upright for very long, he was sent down towards the floor, or as the case may be, into a sitting position in one of the large wooden chairunless she was standing on something.  There is zilch o suggest police moved any casings to the bedroom You are wrong, there is clear evidence that MILLER instructed SOCO to vacate the original exhibits DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4 so that four cartridge cases could be included hypothetically in the main bedroom cache or the bullet that grazed Nevill to the bedroom.  You just assert such because the truth of how the murders went down implicates Jeremy or exonerates him, and rightly so.

As for saying Nevill would have run to the phone instead of preventing the killer from reloading- nonsense. It was part of the prosecutions case during the trial that Ralph would have called the emergencyy services if anyone had already been sot, not call Jeremy - so, which is it, you play it any way you want to, but nothing you can come up with proves that Jeremy killed anyone 1) he couldn't speak because of the injuries He could have spoken before he was shot in the mouth , lip, and jaw 2) His priority was to prevent the killer from reloading and then finishing off him and the rest of the family Well, you got that bit wrong because Ralph managed to speak with Jeremy, and with the police, so he can't have already been shot in the mouth region until after he had made both calls.  Either Nevill ran to the kitchen to get a weapon with the killer chasing him or Nevill chased the killer to try to disarm the killer and same himself and his family That's just your opinion, it doesn't mean its true.  Police would not be able to get there in time to do anything even if his vocal cord had not been severed his priority was self-preservation/defence of his family Ralph had made both of his calls before he sustained those damning injuries.

That is why there was no blood on the phone At the time he picked up the kitchen phone there was no blood on his right hand in which to contaminate the phones handset, simple explanation, he never picked up the kitchen phone Ralph did pick up the handset of the phoneJeremy took it off the hook No, he did not, Jeremy had nothing to do with the death of any of the victims and left it that way.

   
 

It is only in your mind that 4 casings and the bullet that grazed Nevill was moved to the bedroom.  Police had no reason to move anything and there is zero evidence they did. The locations of the casings was set forth long before they ever considered Jeremy a suspect.

Nevill never phoned Jeremy or anyone else.  He was shot int he bedroom then fought for his life to prevent the killer from reloading and finishing off the family but he lost the fight and the killer reloaded, shot him dead then used 8 shots on the boys 2 on Sheila and one on June to "make sure".

You are fighting the truth about the order of the shots tooth and nail because even though Sheila could have been the last one killed the order rules out Nevill phoning Jeremy and that is just as damning as the moderator evidence because without a call from Nevill the only way Jeremy could have known anything happened would be if he had been there.

 

[scipio_usmc]

Yes, but Sheila did shoot him after hitting him with the rifle, and him falling around onto the floor, which gave Sheila the opportunity to take possession of the other loaded rifle and finish Ralph off, with another 4 head shots, each of which would have killed him outright individually, and collectively .  He was beaten because the weapon was empty yesand wash clearly beaten with the rifle. The rifle damaged his arms and head and probably was used on his face as well though it is possible he was punched with a fist as well I don't think Sheila punched Ralph during the attack they were both involved in.

Now you seem to be suggesting that Sheila and Nevill attacked together each armed with a gun then she turned on him.  The evidence supports only the Anschutz was used.  There is no evidence to support either doing anything neither had GSR or blood from victims on them.  instead of following evidence you use your imagination simply.  I don't have any need to bother dealing with such allegations anymore than your allegations of bullets being planted and casings moved etc.  You have zero evidence.

You also still continue to ignore that all double makings on cases indicate is that they had been previously loaded then unloaded.  They clearly were not loaded consecutively and worse 1 of them would have to have been the first bullet.  That blows another hole in your claim the bottom 5 bullets in the magazine had double marking and were in there already.

Clinging to fantasy just makes you look sad. 

 

[mike tesko]

Now you seem to be suggesting that Sheila and Nevill attacked together each armed with a gun then she turned on him.  The evidence supports only the Anschutz was used.  There is no evidence to support either doing anything neither had GSR or blood from victims on them.  instead of following evidence you use your imagination simply.  I don't have any need to bother dealing with such allegations anymore than your allegations of bullets being planted and casings moved etc.  You have zero evidence.

You also still continue to ignore that all double makings on cases indicate is that they had been previously loaded then unloaded.  They clearly were not loaded consecutively and worse 1 of them would have to have been the first bullet.  That blows another hole in your claim the bottom 5 bullets in the magazine had double marking and were in there already.

Clinging to fantasy just makes you look sad. 

 

These are just your opinions, not evidence...

I know that five double marked rounds were inserted into the guns ammunition magazine, before Jeremy loaded the magazine to full capacity with another 5 single marked cartridges...

[scipio_usmc]

These are just your opinions, not evidence...

I know that five double marked rounds were inserted into the guns ammunition magazine, before Jeremy loaded the magazine to full capacity with another 5 single marked cartridges...

It is your erroneous opinion that 5 double marked cartridges were in the gun before Jeremy picked it up and loaded 5 more.  The rooms they were found in shows that didn't happen, Jeremy says the gun was empty when he picked it up and clearly he made up the entire tale of taking it out to shoot rabbits. He removed the scope, loaded it then hid it for use later.

[mike tesko]

It is your erroneous opinion that 5 double marked cartridges were in the gun before Jeremy picked it up and loaded 5 more.  The rooms they were found in shows that didn't happen, Jeremy says the gun was empty when he picked it up and clearly he made up the entire tale of taking it out to shoot rabbits. He removed the scope, loaded it then hid it for use later.

No, he did not, produce that part of his witness statement, police interviews, or trial testimony to back up what you are alleging...

[mike tesko]

It would make no sense for the shooter, whoever she might have been, to remove 5 rounds from the gun magazine, and replace them back into the same rifle magazine in the heat of the moment. These 5 double marked cartridge cases were almost certainly already in the ammunition magazine before Jeremy even got hold of the gun on the evening of 6th August 1985, and what is more on the 9th August when Jones and Jones spoke to Jeremy about the additional 5 bullets, they accepted his explanation without question, so what makes you think you can interfere with what the truth of the matter is?

The location of these 5 double marked cartridges in different parts of the farmiuse help to paint a vivid picture of what had taken place during the discharge of the first full load of the guns 10 / 11 ammunition. It presents a a clear picture of the shooter dashing around in a frenzied state, from room to room, ending up downstairs in the main kitchen where the last round(s) were emptied from the gun. This ties in very neatly with the fact that Ralph Banner had become aware that his daughter had in fact got possession of one of his guns, details which Ralph managed to convey to the police at 3.25am, before Sheila shot at him in the kitchen with the last bullet in that load of the rifle. Prior to this, Ralph had managed a very brief call to Jeremy. This is the true account of what took place involving the first full round discharge of the anshuzt rifle, in the hub between the main bedroom, twins bedroom, and the main kitchen. It paints a clear picture of the frenzied action of the shooter dashing from room to room upstairs and downstairs, with Ralph eventually being cornered and trapped downstairs in the kitchen where the telephone, and additional ammunition were present...

[mike tesko]

I do not believe that Sheila reloaded the anshuzt rifle at that time. I believe that there was another  preloaded rifle to hand which she proceeded to use...

[mike tesko]

I do not believe that Sheila reloaded the anshuzt rifle at that time. I believe that there was another  preloaded rifle to hand which she proceeded to use...

I believe this to be true becsuse of the existence of a coded note written in Sheil's hand, which includes figure 3  being written five times, which when added together priduced a tital of 15, the exact number of additional bullets require to fulfill the quota of 25, once the first full load of 10 was fired from the anshuzt rifle...

[scipio_usmc]

No, he did not, produce that part of his witness statement, police interviews, or trial testimony to back up what you are alleging...

This is his 8/8/85 statement:



He reiterated such at trial.

In your zeal to try making excuses for Jeremy you fail to consider all his claims.  In shaping a narrative you have to take the claims of the defendant and try shaping it around such as opposed to ignoring his claims and just making up anything you like.

It is obvious this entire tale of taking the gun and bullets out and leaving the out was made up in order to pretend Sheila would have found a weapon of opportunity.  Nonetheless if you want to pretend Jeremy was not lying and that it actually happened then you have to face the implications of his claim.  He claimed he had chambered a round, failed to find the rabbits so didn't fire the weapon, came inside with it, released the magazine, removed the round from the chamber and put it back in the magazine.  If his claims were true that means the first round in the gun would have had markings of having been loaded twice into the magazine.  So if his tale were true that would account for 1 of the twice loaded bullets.  The other 4 would have been sitting in the supply used for the murders- which means some prior occasion they had been previously loaded then unloaded. So your theory falls apart on 4 different levels:

1) Jeremy said the magazine was empty

2) if the casings had been sitting in the magazine because they were left inside after being loaded instead of unloaded they would only have been loaded once and be marked as having been loaded once not twice

3) If Jeremy's claims were true then only 4 of the double marked casings used in the crimes would have had marks of being loaded twice at the time he picked up the weapon and ammunition.  The 5th would have been double marked by his own action of feeding the round into the chamber, removing it and putting it in the magazine a second time.  You are thus 1 casing short.       

4) The location of the casings demonstrates even the 4 that would have been double marked from the outset were not loaded consecutively. They were dispersed over 3 different loadings.

If you want to make this argument there is only 1 way to make it.  You have to claim that Jeremy was wrong about the gun being empty and that it actually had 5 bullets in it already- which is not provable and makes no sense because if it had bullets he simply would have rushed out after the rabbits not have wasted time going to the kitchen to load the magazine with 5 additional bullets and you would have to claim these bullets were among the ammunition that was not double marked because ammunition loaded in the gun once and left there would not be double marked.  Jeremy reiterated his claims at trial he didn't change his account and claim the gun had 5 bullets in the magazine when he picked it up. So you are ignoring the evidence put forth by the defense in order to try helping Jeremy but it doesn't work.

It is obvious the whole account was contrived in order to pretend Sheila found a weapon of opportunity with a magazine already pre-loaded so that Nevill could not hide the gun as she was loading the magazine (which requires 2 hands to load) and extra bullets were conveniently left there as well for her to reload from.  Aside from not being known to shoot rabbits his story kept changing of when he saw/heard them and the story of finding the gun without the scope and moderator attached is not credible. During his interrogation he initially stated that prior to this he had not used the rifle for a week to forthnight. Obviously he didn't use it much and was not int he habit of shooting rabbits anytime he saw them.  After police told him AP was the last known user and he said he found the weapon with the moderator and scope attached and put it away in the same manner Jeremy changed his story and claimed he repeatedly used it the week leading up to the murders. He changed his story specifically so he could claim sometimes the gun had the scope and moderator attached other times they had been removed.  His second account was clearly a lie and the motivation for the lie very transparent. 
 

[scipio_usmc]

It would make no sense for the shooter, whoever she might have been, to remove 5 rounds from the gun magazine, and replace them back into the same rifle magazine in the heat of the moment. These 5 double marked cartridge cases were almost certainly already in the ammunition magazine before Jeremy even got hold of the gun on the evening of 6th August 1985,

This is a perfect example of how you ignore the arguments made by your opponents to avoid having to deal with the fact your claims have been refuted so you can continue on with fantasy.

I will reiterate them yet again:

If 5 cartridges had been loaded into the magazine and left there they would have had single loading marks because they would have been loaded only once.  So right off the bat your argument that the double markings indicate they were left in the magazine prior MAKES NO SENSE. 

All the double marked casings prove is that on a prior occasion they had been loaded into the magazine but instead of leaving them inside they were removed and placed back with other ammunition that had never been loaded into the magazine. 

If Jeremy's claims were actually true then only 4 of these casings had been double loaded prior to him picking up the ammunition supply.  So out of the 25 cartridges used only 4 had been double marked at the time Jeremy picked up the gun and the ammunition.  Jeremy himself claims to have caused the double marks on one of the cartridges by loading 10 rounds into the magazine, chambering the lead round into the weapon, removing this bullet from the chamber and placing it back at the top of the magazine.

The bottom line is that you are still 1 case short, your claim multiple bullets that were left in the magazine would have double marks is nonsense (because they were left inside they would have only been loaded once) and Jeremy himself says the gun had been empty.  Furthermore the location of the double marked rounds shows that they were spread over several reloadings not sitting in the gun consecutively.

There are only 2 possibilities:

A) On a previous occasion someone failed to expend the full magazine supply and unloaded 6 rounds. These six rounds were mixed in with rounds that had never been loaded. 5 of them were loaded into the gun at different times by the killer during the course of the murders but the 6th wasn't and remained among the ammo dumped in the kitchen. Jeremy made up the story about taking out the gun to shoot rabbits and leaving it out and staged the bullets int he kitchen after the murder but staged too many. 

B) On a previous occasion someone failed to expend the full magazine supply and unloaded 5 rounds. These 5 rounds were mixed in with rounds that had never been loaded. 4 of them were loaded into the gun at different times by the killer during the course of the murders but the 5th wasn't and remained among the ammo dumped in the kitchen.  Jeremy took out the gun and bullets as he claimed and after he came back inside he removed the cartridge from the chamber and put it back in the magazine thus it had been double loaded and this accounts for the 5th casing that had been double loaded.  The killer only used 18-20 rounds from the kitchen ammo supply and for some reason went to the closet to get 5-7 more bullets and this accounts for why there were 5-7 more bullets left int he kitchen ammo supply than their should have been.

B is what the defense effectively argued at trial that is implicitly what hey argued happened.  It is not believable though that the killer would go to the closet instead of continuing to use the kitchen ammo had it actually been there as claimed.

and what is more on the 9th August when Jones and Jones spoke to Jeremy about the additional 5 bullets, they accepted his explanation without question, so what makes you think you can interfere with what the truth of the matter is?

They didn't even get an explanation from him let alone accepted such without question.  They noted they left with the same question they had when they came which was they could not understand how his claims could be true and yet 30 rounds remain in the kitchen.  Instead of this causing them to change their stance like it should have they simply decided to ignore the problem,particularly Taff Jones.  Later when Julie blabbed and the moderator evidence surfaced they returned to it.     

The location of these 5 double marked cartridges in different parts of the farmiuse help to paint a vivid picture of what had taken place during the discharge of the first full load of the guns 10 / 11 ammunition. It presents a a clear picture of the shooter dashing around in a frenzied state, from room to room, ending up downstairs in the main kitchen where the last round(s) were emptied from the gun. This ties in very neatly with the fact that Ralph Banner had become aware that his daughter had in fact got possession of one of his guns, details which Ralph managed to convey to the police at 3.25am, before Sheila shot at him in the kitchen with the last bullet in that load of the rifle. Prior to this, Ralph had managed a very brief call to Jeremy. This is the true account of what took place involving the first full round discharge of the anshuzt rifle, in the hub between the main bedroom, twins bedroom, and the main kitchen. It paints a clear picture of the frenzied action of the shooter dashing from room to room upstairs and downstairs, with Ralph eventually being cornered and trapped downstairs in the kitchen where the telephone, and additional ammunition were present...

No it paints the picture of the doublemarked rounds not being loaded consecutively and not even all in the same loading batch they were spread out among all 3 magazine loads.

[mike tesko]

This is a perfect example of how you ignore the arguments made by your opponents to avoid having to deal with the fact your claims have been refuted so you can continue on with fantasy.

I will reiterate them yet again:

If 5 cartridges had been loaded into the magazine and left there they would have had single loading marks because they would have been loaded only once.  So right off the bat your argument that the double markings indicate they were left in the magazine prior MAKES NO SENSE. 

All the double marked casings prove is that on a prior occasion they had been loaded into the magazine but instead of leaving them inside they were removed and placed back with other ammunition that had never been loaded into the magazine. 

If Jeremy's claims were actually true then only 4 of these casings had been double loaded prior to him picking up the ammunition supply.  So out of the 25 cartridges used only 4 had been double marked at the time Jeremy picked up the gun and the ammunition.  Jeremy himself claims to have caused the double marks on one of the cartridges by loading 10 rounds into the magazine, chambering the lead round into the weapon, removing this bullet from the chamber and placing it back at the top of the magazine.

The bottom line is that you are still 1 case short, your claim multiple bullets that were left in the magazine would have double marks is nonsense (because they were left inside they would have only been loaded once) and Jeremy himself says the gun had been empty.  Furthermore the location of the double marked rounds shows that they were spread over several reloadings not sitting in the gun consecutively.

There are only 2 possibilities:

A) On a previous occasion someone failed to expend the full magazine supply and unloaded 6 rounds. These six rounds were mixed in with rounds that had never been loaded. 5 of them were loaded into the gun at different times by the killer during the course of the murders but the 6th wasn't and remained among the ammo dumped in the kitchen. Jeremy made up the story about taking out the gun to shoot rabbits and leaving it out and staged the bullets int he kitchen after the murder but staged too many. 

B) On a previous occasion someone failed to expend the full magazine supply and unloaded 5 rounds. These 5 rounds were mixed in with rounds that had never been loaded. 4 of them were loaded into the gun at different times by the killer during the course of the murders but the 5th wasn't and remained among the ammo dumped in the kitchen.  Jeremy took out the gun and bullets as he claimed and after he came back inside he removed the cartridge from the chamber and put it back in the magazine thus it had been double loaded and this accounts for the 5th casing that had been double loaded.  The killer only used 18-20 rounds from the kitchen ammo supply and for some reason went to the closet to get 5-7 more bullets and this accounts for why there were 5-7 more bullets left int he kitchen ammo supply than their should have been.

B is what the defense effectively argued at trial that is implicitly what hey argued happened.  It is not believable though that the killer would go to the closet instead of continuing to use the kitchen ammo had it actually been there as claimed.

They didn't even get an explanation from him let alone accepted such without question.  They noted they left with the same question they had when they came which was they could not understand how his claims could be true and yet 30 rounds remain in the kitchen.  Instead of this causing them to change their stance like it should have they simply decided to ignore the problem,particularly Taff Jones.  Later when Julie blabbed and the moderator evidence surfaced they returned to it.     



No it paints the picture of the doublemarked rounds not being loaded consecutively and not even all in the same loading batch they were spread out among all 3 magazine loads.

The typed witness statement made in Jeremy's name, was not the original version of his witness statement, someone created this typed version, edited sections, and removed details relating to the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the main bedroom window. The contents of these typed versions of Jeremy's altered and edited statement were not exhibits at his trial. Jeremy signed the full version of his statement which did not include the extract you have posted. As I say, on the 9th August Jones and Jones were satisfied that Jeremy had given them an explanation regarding where the additional five rounds had originated from...

[scipio_usmc]

The typed witness statement made in Jeremy's name, was not the original version of his witness statement, someone created this typed version, edited sections, and removed details relating to the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the main bedroom window. The contents of these typed versions of Jeremy's altered and edited statement were not exhibits at his trial. Jeremy signed the full version of his statement which did not include the extract you have posted. As I say, on the 9th August Jones and Jones were satisfied that Jeremy had given them an explanation regarding where the additional five rounds had originated from...

Nonsense, Jeremy makes no such allegations and moreover you are the one who posted the statement saying it was his.  Jeremy told you it was a doctored statement and then you posted it here telling everyone it was his original statement?  As I said before stop insulting our intelligence.  By now one would expect you to realize we didn't fall off the back of a turnip truck. 

This is exactly the kind of issue that harms your credibility because instead of just admitting you didn't realize that was in his statement and that you were wrong you instead make up a tale about it being a doctored statement ignoring that at trial he said the same thing.



 

[mike tesko]

Nonsense, Jeremy makes no such allegations and moreover you are the one who posted the statement saying it was his.  Jeremy told you it was a doctored statement and then you posted it here telling everyone it was his original statement?  As I said before stop insulting our intelligence.  By now one would expect you to realize we didn't fall off the back of a turnip truck. 

This is exactly the kind of issue that harms your credibility because instead of just admitting you didn't realize that was in his statement and that you were wrong you instead make up a tale about it being a doctored statement ignoring that at trial he said the same thing.

Yes, I agree that your talking nonsense, good of you to admit it...

Consider the following scenario:-

The original unedited version of Jeremy Bambers witness statements were hand written, and each page signed by Jeremy Banner _ now, please stop acting dumb, show us all where Jeremy's signature appears alongside the extracts you have posted?

When you realise the truth, perhaps you might learn to keep your big gob shut...