Author Topic: Facts  (Read 50104 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #195 on: June 02, 2015, 10:01:PM »
I'm not arguing as to whether he'd have married her or not. Under the circumstances it's what any man with a manipulative nature would have done to get himself out of a hole.
JM never opened her mouth about his " plan " so it was even less likely that she'd have opened up once there was a ring on her finger. She liked the lobster and champagne too---------plus the holidays. I noticed she didn't refuse all this knowing " what he'd done ".
It's a miracle she didn't choke as she ate the fine cuisine !

What sort of a woman accepts money,holidays and 5* eating from a " murderer ".Don't say because she loved him--------she loved the life-style.
30 years is proof that she didn't love him.

She didn't love the lifestyle that is why they broke up.  The constant partying annoyed her she wanted something more substantive out of life.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Facts
« Reply #196 on: June 02, 2015, 10:19:PM »
When Sheila had one of her episodes, she could not recognise anybody she knew, and She could not even remember anything about her own behaviour on those occasions, it was as if she was under a trance, and had taken on another personality, her evil monstrous alter ego, the white witch, Joan of arc, caught up in between the forces of good and evil - when she got like this, no-one could feel safe in her presence. Let's get the facts right, her confidant Freddie Emani himself admitted to being frightened for his own safety, and the safety of others, including children, when Sheila was that way inclined...

if Sheila made Freddie Emani ferried and in fear of losing his life when Sheila went into her violent rages, image how poor old Ralph Banner must have felt when Sheila turned on him with one of his loaded guns?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #197 on: June 02, 2015, 10:19:PM »
She didn't love the lifestyle that is why they broke up.  The constant partying annoyed her she wanted something more substantive out of life.






Oh yeah,pull the other one.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #198 on: June 02, 2015, 10:50:PM »
When Sheila had one of her episodes, she could not recognise anybody she knew, and She could not even remember anything about her own behaviour on those occasions, it was as if she was under a trance, and had taken on another personality, her evil monstrous alter ego, the white witch, Joan of arc, caught up in between the forces of good and evil - when she got like this, no-one could feel safe in her presence. Let's get the facts right, her confidant Freddie Emani himself admitted to being frightened for his own safety, and the safety of others, including children, when Sheila was that way inclined...

if Sheila made Freddie Emani ferried and in fear of losing his life when Sheila went into her violent rages, image how poor old Ralph Banner must have felt when Sheila turned on him with one of his loaded guns?

You keep digging your hole by ignoring things in the very statement you are highlighting:



She instantly recognized Nevill and calmed down and became rational.

Jeremy is the one who had the gun on him and he opened fire so quickly that there wasn't much time to think. June was shot first so she was hit before she was even awake and might never have ever realized what was going on.  Nevill knew he had to try to fight back to save his life and saw his wife shot up so probably was pissed more than anything.

Sheila didn't even know how to use the gun so Nevill would have simply taken it away from her had she been seen with the weapon.  The notion he would have called Jeremy for help is laughable.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Facts
« Reply #199 on: June 02, 2015, 10:58:PM »
None of us know what Sheila was capable of doing once she changed into that other person often hidden away inside her tortured mind. Since, when someone has a psychotic episode like Sheila is rumoured to have had frequently, people end up doing all sorts of things they weren't thought to have been capable of doing whilst in a normal state. I don't think anyone can say that the capabilities of a normal person are always replicated in the changed version of that same person having had a psychotic episode. Intact evidence elsewhere tends to show that someone having such a psychotic episode often does amazing things, and capable of immense strength and determination, not recognised at all when that person returns to, or had been in a normal state...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #200 on: June 03, 2015, 12:36:AM »
None of us know what Sheila was capable of doing once she changed into that other person often hidden away inside her tortured mind. Since, when someone has a psychotic episode like Sheila is rumoured to have had frequently, people end up doing all sorts of things they weren't thought to have been capable of doing whilst in a normal state. I don't think anyone can say that the capabilities of a normal person are always replicated in the changed version of that same person having had a psychotic episode. Intact evidence elsewhere tends to show that someone having such a psychotic episode often does amazing things, and capable of immense strength and determination, not recognised at all when that person returns to, or had been in a normal state...

We know she didn't have the power to kill to kill everyone without getting any evidence on her closes and body or the power to kill herself with the moderator attached then while dead move her body flat and use telekinesis powers to float the moderator down to the closet, and the Bible to a pool of her blood.  Nor did Nevill have the opportunity let alone a motive to call Jeremy and claim Sheila was going crazy with the gun.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Facts
« Reply #201 on: June 03, 2015, 05:39:AM »
Sheila's body and clothing was contaminated with blood and other marks consistent with her being responsible for killing the other 4 victims. She had blood and marks on her hand, her arm, her neck, her foot and her nightdress which leaves not doubt whatsoever that her body and clothing were not blood and injury free as the police and its supporters would have us believe. Clearly, she had been involved in some sort of a direct altercation with Ralph, she left her mark on his forearm as evidenced by the presence of several deep gouge marks caused by her digging her fingernails into his arm. Despite some arguing that the gouge marks were made by the guns barrel, which even if true would only strengthen the case for the sound moderator not being fitted to the rifles barrel, established by the fact that the size, shape, and dimensions of the gouges being too small to have been inflicted with use of the end of the silencer...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #202 on: June 03, 2015, 07:11:AM »
Sheila's body and clothing was contaminated with blood and other marks consistent with her being responsible for killing the other 4 victims. She had blood and marks on her hand, her arm, her neck, her foot and her nightdress which leaves not doubt whatsoever that her body and clothing were not blood and injury free as the police and its supporters would have us believe.

The only blood on her was her own it was tested and was found to be hers.  That blood was:

1) blood that ran down her shoulder and side of her breast
2) blood that was on her outer palm/wrist which got there when she tried to plug her neck wound
3) blood that ran down from her wrist to her elbow as her hand was holding her neck wound.  Gravity carried the blood down to her elbow.

She had no blood from any victims, no GSR on her hands or clothing, no soot on her hands and clothing and no injuries or trauma of any kind to her hands or fingernails.


Clearly, she had been involved in some sort of a direct altercation with Ralph, she left her mark on his forearm as evidenced by the presence of several deep gouge marks caused by her digging her fingernails into his arm. Despite some arguing that the gouge marks were made by the guns barrel, which even if true would only strengthen the case for the sound moderator not being fitted to the rifles barrel, established by the fact that the size, shape, and dimensions of the gouges being too small to have been inflicted with use of the end of the silencer...

The gouge marks were made by the butt of the rifle.  he corner of the butt causes marks like that.  The longer/wider abrasions were made by the butt of the rifle dragging against his arm.  When the corner dug in it causes roundish marks when dragged over a broad area it causes the lateral marks.

Fingernails cause scratches like these:

   





Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #203 on: June 03, 2015, 01:12:PM »
 Digs/grabs with the nails in elderly flesh will draw blood. Skin loses its elasticity as you get older and also thins.

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #204 on: June 03, 2015, 04:55:PM »
Do we know of a letter written by CC to EP explaining CC's reason for Sheila having killed the family ?
Of course not-----------it was hushed up. It's no wonder that CC wasn't allowed to change his statement !

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #205 on: June 03, 2015, 05:45:PM »
Do we know of a letter written by CC to EP explaining CC's reason for Sheila having killed the family ?
Of course not-----------it was hushed up. It's no wonder that CC wasn't allowed to change his statement !

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.  CC's letter was a letter addressed to Nevill which he never mailed or handed to him.  This letter stated he wanted full time custody of the kids. He didn't give it to Nevill because he wasn't yet prepared to demand full time custody and risk fighting them for it he was still mulling it over if he wanted to do such.

During the appeal process Jeremy's lawyers took this letter to Ferguson and told him that Nevill received this letter and as a result Nevill went to her supporting she give up custody to Collin.  He said she would view this as betrayal and this could have given her motive to act.

He never gave the letter to Nevill or spoke with him verbally about obtaining full time custody so it is impossible Nevill could have told her that he supported her giving up custody to Nevill. This nonsense was rejected by the Court of Appeals. Eveyrthing you raise has either been soundly rejected already or is simply made up like your claim June and Nevill had marks in their arms from Sheila digging into them.

Pertinent points form the Court of Appeal Decision:

"He was seeking Nevill Bamber's support in convincing Sheila that the boys should continue to stay with him most of the time, and that he should have full control over their well-being. It is to be noted that he and Sheila had joint custody of the children.

This letter was referred to in a disclosed statement made by Mr Caffell on 11 September 1985. He actually produced the letter to the police officer who took the statement, and it was given an exhibit number (ARD/1) although technically it could never have been an exhibit. In such circumstances, the suggestion that this letter was never disclosed to the defence is, we have to say, manifestly unsustainable. So also is the assertion, implicit in the appellant's skeleton argument on this ground that the police at least in breach of their duty to ensure that all relevant material was disclosed failed, deliberately or inadvertently, to ensure that this material was drawn to the attention of the defence team. The reference to the document in the disclosed statement alerted the defence to its existence and it was for the defence to satisfy themselves as to whether or not it was relevant to the case that they wished to present to the court.

That conclusion is enough to dispose of this particular ground of appeal, but in deference to Mr Turner's submissions on the point we go further and express our view that this draft letter, even though it may have reflected Mr Caffell's views, was of minimal if any relevance to the issues that the jury had to consider. The letter was never sent; and there is no evidence that Mr Caffell's views, or his request was ever conveyed to Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell or any other member of the family. Mr Caffell himself was not present on the evening of 6 August when the discussion described by the trial judge took place. The most relevant evidence of Sheila's reaction to the suggestion that the boys should be fostered was that given by the appellant himself and related to a point in time only a matter of hours before the killing took place."

"However, Mr Turner sought permission to call before us further psychiatric evidence, primarily from Dr Ferguson. In the statement tendered to this court in support of this application Dr Ferguson suggests that if he had been aware of the letter from Colin Caffell with the possible scenario that he might take over full time care of the children from Sheila coupled with the possibility that Nevill Bamber might have pleaded Colin Caffell's case, he would have suggested that this could have had a potentially catastrophic effect on Sheila Caffell. This would have been partly because she would have been resistant to the suggestion of having her children removed from her care and partly because it might have transformed her image of her father from a support and mentor into that of a hostile figure.

However, it is clear that Dr Ferguson had already dealt with a broadly similar scenario in his evidence in chief. ... It appears to us that when Dr Ferguson provided his most recent statement in support of this application he overlooked the fact that the letter written by Colin Caffell was never sent and there is no evidence that it ever came to Nevill Bamber's knowledge. He also does not appear to be aware of the very considerable extent to which Colin Caffell was, at the material time, already responsible for the day to day care of the two boys. In the circumstances it does not seem to us that Dr Ferguson is in any position to add significantly to the evidence that he gave to the jury in October of 1986. No new issue is raised which was not already fully before the jury, and in the circumstances it did not seem to us necessary or expedient in the interests of justice that further evidence on this topic should now be admitted before this court and we declined to hear such evidence. There is thus nothing of any substance in this ground and we reject it."
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #206 on: June 03, 2015, 06:32:PM »
 I don't have to write a chapter in order to get my point across.

CC also wrote to EP,which is what I said,and the reason why you don't believe it is because it was hushed up and has never seen daylight.
You just can't stand anyone getting one over on you,can you ? Out comes all the abuse and insults to cover that fact up.

guest154

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Re: Facts
« Reply #207 on: June 03, 2015, 06:35:PM »
I don't have to write a chapter in order to get my point across.

CC also wrote to EP,which is what I said,and the reason why you don't believe it is because it was hushed up and has never seen daylight.
You just can't stand anyone getting one over on you,can you ? Out comes all the abuse and insults to cover that fact up.

Post proof that CC wrote to EP expressing his reasons why Sheila is the killer.  You can't can you?  ;D Because it is made up, isn't it?

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #208 on: June 03, 2015, 06:42:PM »
Post proof that CC wrote to EP expressing his reasons why Sheila is the killer.  You can't can you?  ;D Because it is made up, isn't it?






It's in the " Free Library".Why do you keep saying that I'm making things up ? I've NEVER seen any of your contributions to the case apart from sniping at mine !!

guest154

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Re: Facts
« Reply #209 on: June 03, 2015, 06:48:PM »
I'm not even sure what the Free Library is - but I've no interest in finding out or searching because I know that such a letter does not exist, so it would be a waste of time.