Author Topic: Facts  (Read 50071 times)

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Offline notsure

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Re: Facts
« Reply #180 on: June 01, 2015, 09:17:PM »
Adam

' you just found out that notsure is reading an innocent man'

Wow what a revelation. ! The book is posted here on this forum and it is here on this forum that i mentioned i was reading it.

you dont like the book as it argues away all your theories.


Offline Caroline

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Re: Facts
« Reply #181 on: June 01, 2015, 09:31:PM »
Adam

' you just found out that notsure is reading an innocent man'

Wow what a revelation. ! The book is posted here on this forum and it is here on this forum that i mentioned i was reading it.

you dont like the book as it argues away all your theories.

Yes, but most of what is written in that book has been blow away quite some time ago. What specifically stands out in the book for you? 
Few people have the imagination for reality

guest154

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Re: Facts
« Reply #182 on: June 01, 2015, 09:32:PM »
Adam

' you just found out that notsure is reading an innocent man'

Wow what a revelation. ! The book is posted here on this forum and it is here on this forum that i mentioned i was reading it.

you dont like the book as it argues away all your theories.

Are you sure you're not sure, notsure?

Offline notsure

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Re: Facts
« Reply #183 on: June 01, 2015, 09:36:PM »
Lol

Im done for tonight!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Facts
« Reply #184 on: June 01, 2015, 09:37:PM »
Lol

Im done for tonight!

You sure?  ;)
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline susan

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Re: Facts
« Reply #185 on: June 01, 2015, 09:41:PM »
Are you sure you're not sure, notsure?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Adam

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Re: Facts
« Reply #186 on: June 02, 2015, 05:21:AM »
Adam

' you just found out that notsure is reading an innocent man'

Wow what a revelation. ! The book is posted here on this forum and it is here on this forum that i mentioned i was reading it.

you dont like the book as it argues away all your theories.

The book makes excuses for all the circumstantial and forensic evidence. Together with Jeremy's strange behaviour after the massacre and bad family relations.

Feel free to respond to post number 173.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 05:22:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #187 on: June 02, 2015, 08:08:PM »
Facts-------------there are more holes in this case than a colander !

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #188 on: June 02, 2015, 08:25:PM »
 " all's going well "----------" something's wrong at the farm ". What ?
 It's either one or t'other ?
Both are alleged to have been said.? Which one is right ? Take your pick.

Offline Jan

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Re: Facts
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2015, 08:35:PM »
The book makes excuses for all the circumstantial and forensic evidence. Together with Jeremy's strange behaviour after the massacre and bad family relations.

Feel free to respond to post number 173.

what forensic evidence does it make excuses for ? forensic evidence is either there or it is not.

Circumstantial evidence is what it says on the tin :D  so of course there can be explanations or perhaps excuses . Bad family relations - it depends who you believe does it not?

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2015, 08:49:PM »
 Bad " planning " on Jeremy's part. Instead of dumping JM,they could have got married,lived at WHF and reaped the benefits of the business ( which is what JM originally must have had in mind )so in effect,she not only lost Jeremy,but her chances of becoming " lady of the manor ".Enough to make any woman go running looking for revenge and her chance of blocking the future of Jeremy.

IF Jeremy had been guilty,would not this have been a way of securing WHF and its assets by passing them over to his " wife " ? He'd have had 10 months in which to do it,as this is what any man with half a brain would have done had he planned with military precision. Not to " slaughter " his family,then dump his girlfriend at such a crucial time  ::) It's only natural that there'd have been finger-pointing.He left himself wide open to suspicion. NOBODY is as stupid as that.!!

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2015, 09:28:PM »
 Strange too that JM KNEW about the forthcoming murders. In my books and in the minds of others,she was an accessory.
How many guys are in prison at this moment who were " friends " of those who'd murdered.? It's known as Joint Enterprise. Jordan Cunliffe was accused of this.He didn't touch the victim,he probably didn't know when he set out that night ( unlike JM who " knew " ) that some poor soul was going to be murdered, but being part of the accused is as bad as having carried out the deed.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2015, 09:30:PM »
Bad " planning " on Jeremy's part. Instead of dumping JM,they could have got married,lived at WHF and reaped the benefits of the business ( which is what JM originally must have had in mind )so in effect,she not only lost Jeremy,but her chances of becoming " lady of the manor ".Enough to make any woman go running looking for revenge and her chance of blocking the future of Jeremy.

IF Jeremy had been guilty,would not this have been a way of securing WHF and its assets by passing them over to his " wife " ? He'd have had 10 months in which to do it,as this is what any man with half a brain would have done had he planned with military precision. Not to " slaughter " his family,then dump his girlfriend at such a crucial time  ::) It's only natural that there'd have been finger-pointing.He left himself wide open to suspicion. NOBODY is as stupid as that.!!

1) He didn't have the assets himself officially they belonged to the estate.  He had no way to marry her and have them immediately pass to her. 

2) He didn't want to marry her at that point he wanted to have fun.  He didn't think she would rat him out after the breakup and didn't think police would believe her anyway.  He felt that police would do what his supporters do and simply dismiss her claims. He told her this when they were arguing before they broke up and she threatened to talk. 

Evidence of various lies by Jeremy and evidence Sheila could not have killed herself and a lack of evidence she killed anyone else resulted in police believing Julie and corroborating her claims. Jeremy didn't anticipate such.  He didn't realize he botched things up so badly. 

He made a big mistake by constantly telling her he wanted to kill his family, telling her the plans he had in store for how he was going to do it, and telling her after the fact that he did it including before he even called police. He didn't view this as requiring him to marry Julie and live a normal life.  He didn't kill everyone in order to live a normal life married to Julie.  He did it so he could pursue a party lifestyle.  People like him blow everything partying then are back to working the trenches they hate.  I can give countless example of people who inherited businesses and substantial assets but failed to have any interest in taking the effort required to run them successfully instead preferring to have fun and at the end the businesses go under, they spend all their assets on entertainment and then have to go get what they consider a menial job and to live what they consider a boring life.  Some of the regret their actions while others glorify their party days and tell the stories with fondess, they live to tell those stories and basically live in the past.   

   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: Facts
« Reply #193 on: June 02, 2015, 09:45:PM »
 I'm not arguing as to whether he'd have married her or not. Under the circumstances it's what any man with a manipulative nature would have done to get himself out of a hole.
JM never opened her mouth about his " plan " so it was even less likely that she'd have opened up once there was a ring on her finger. She liked the lobster and champagne too---------plus the holidays. I noticed she didn't refuse all this knowing " what he'd done ".
It's a miracle she didn't choke as she ate the fine cuisine !

What sort of a woman accepts money,holidays and 5* eating from a " murderer ".Don't say because she loved him--------she loved the life-style.
30 years is proof that she didn't love him.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Facts
« Reply #194 on: June 02, 2015, 09:58:PM »
Strange too that JM KNEW about the forthcoming murders. In my books and in the minds of others,she was an accessory.
How many guys are in prison at this moment who were " friends " of those who'd murdered.? It's known as Joint Enterprise. Jordan Cunliffe was accused of this.He didn't touch the victim,he probably didn't know when he set out that night ( unlike JM who " knew " ) that some poor soul was going to be murdered, but being part of the accused is as bad as having carried out the deed.

Knowing someone plans to do something bad doesn't make you an accessory doing something to aid them does.

She said she didn't believe he was actually going to do it though.  I had a friend who said he was going to blow up our high school, he never did it though.  She treated him the way we treated him when he said such. Jeremy made somewhat more detailed plans that he did and conveyed such plans to her so some say she should have realized he was serious.  But it is hard to take people serious who say such things unless you see actual preparations being made like see bombs being built.  If she did think he was going to do it bu didn't care that just makes her a horrible person not an accessory.  If she aided him in his planning that would make her an accessory. 

There is only one area where her actions could potentially have made her an accessory or guilty of obstruction of justice. That related to her support of Jeremy receiving a phone call from WHF.  It hinges on what she knew and what her intent was.  If she knew Jeremy was making up receiving a call and helping to support a fake call that at the very least is obstruction and could very well make her an accessory after the fact.

She said that before the murders Jeremy told her a call from WHF would be made to him and this would be his alibi.  She was vague about whether he would simply make up this call or someone would really call.  Her vagueness could be because she realized if she admitted he said it was going to be made up then her support of him receiving a call was aiding and abetting him.

She said that in his call to her at 11:30 he told her tonight is the night.

She alleges at 3AM the night of the murders he told her the murder plan was going well and he received a distress call from WHF and that he wanted her to convey this to police.  For all we know he told her he was going to pretend he received a distress call and needed her to say he called her to report to her that he had received this call and sounded very worried.  If he did tell her that then she committed a crime by telling police what she did on the first 2 days after the murders. 

She initially told police what he wanted her to say.  Later she told police that he called at 3AM saying all was going well with the murders and that he received a call from Nevill.  She framed it as her failing to tell police everything she knew not actively lying to then.  She said she failed to mention the parts where he said he had not been to bed yet, all was going well with the murders, tonight is the night from the prior call, neglecting to mention how he had long been talking about killing the and finally not mentioning his admission he was responsible.  She said she didn't lie for him she just didn't tell police everything she knew.

It is hard to see how she could think that a call was really made to Jeremy. It seems obvious he planned to lie and make up receiving a call.  She paints herself as stupid and really believing such.  People will have lingering suspicions that she knew there was no call and was lying for him but there is no way to prove it since Jeremy won't give his version.  Jeremy wants to pretend he is innocent so won't give his account of what he really said to her.   

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry