Facts

[susan]

Here goes. Im a newbie so please be gentle! !
I think im going to need a pretty hard skin to post on here , but i agree with keepers on this one! There is reasonable doubt and if i was a jury member i would have had to have found not guilty. There simply wasnt enough hard evidence and too many cockups by the police for any of it not to raise doubt.

This is all about how we percieve certain situations and characters. How we would react and what we would have done! No one can say 100% that jb is guilty as no one saw him or sheila do it.

I wonder how the jury members feelvabout it now! Does anyone know?

Hello Notsure

I note your comments and I agree about EP making a total mess of the investigation.  Perhaps you may wish to give us your views on the phone calls  and how come Sheila was so clean.

Sorry forgot to say  Welcome to the Forum

[Jane]

Here goes. Im a newbie so please be gentle! !
I think im going to need a pretty hard skin to post on here , but i agree with keepers on this one! There is reasonable doubt and if i was a jury member i would have had to have found not guilty. There simply wasnt enough hard evidence and too many cockups by the police for any of it not to raise doubt.

This is all about how we percieve certain situations and characters. How we would react and what we would have done! No one can say 100% that jb is guilty as no one saw him or sheila do it.

I wonder how the jury members feelvabout it now! Does anyone know?

Well done on your first post, Notsure -I hope that state will be cured soon - and welcome to the forum. I rather think that at the time of the trial I too, would have said "not guilty" BUT we haven't seen the transcripts so we're not fully aware of what happened. I don't think Jeremy did himself any good with his supercilious and arrogant attitude and although I would never be in a hurry to fight Julie's corner, I imagine she was a very powerful and convincing witness. We have often mused on how jury members feel about it now.

[scipio_usmc]

Here goes. Im a newbie so please be gentle! !
I think im going to need a pretty hard skin to post on here , but i agree with keepers on this one! There is reasonable doubt and if i was a jury member i would have had to have found not guilty. There simply wasnt enough hard evidence and too many cockups by the police for any of it not to raise doubt.

This is all about how we percieve certain situations and characters. How we would react and what we would have done! No one can say 100% that jb is guilty as no one saw him or sheila do it.

I wonder how the jury members feelvabout it now! Does anyone know?

The problem with such a position is that no cockups by police have been established.  This site features tons of allegations none of which have any evidentiary support.  Jurors are presented competent evidence and must evaluate from the basis of such.

I am 100% sure Jeremy did it because it is not possible for Sheila to have:

1) killed herself with the moderator attached
2) after she was dead to have:
a) removed the moderator and put it away in the closet
b) moved her body from a seated position to a flat position
c) after a pool of blood formed after she was moved flat to then open the Bible and place it in such pool.

All of these things establish with 100% certainly someone else killed her and then staged the scene.  Jeremy's claim that he received a call from Nevill with Nevill would not have made and which in fact was impossible for Nevill to have made establishes Jeremy is the one who killed Sheila.  He had no way to know anything happened at WHF let alone that someone framed Sheila unless he did it.  Other physical evidence proves that Sheila didn't beat or kill anyone else either.  The same person who kille dher killed everyone else as well.  There is much more evidence against Jeremy but this evidence is the most powerful.

The law doesn't require 100% proof though anyway.  Proof must simply be beyond a  reasonable doubt which means it is reasonably likely that someone is guilty and not reasonably likely that someone else did it instead.

It is not reasonably likely that Sheila killed anyone else or herself. It is not reasonably likely Jeremy could have known about the murders and have been able to contact police unless he was responsible.  That is more than enough in the eyes of the law.  To overturn his conviction requires proving it was reasonably likely that Sheila committed the murders and killed herself but the defense has no way to prove that based on the existing facts.

Jeremy supporters thus often make up different fake facts to try to pretend Sheila did it but such evidence it worthless because made up evidence can't be brought before an Appeal Court. The most recent CCRC submission was a complete flop and in order to keep making claims publicly that were rejected by the CCRC the defense will not publish the CCRC rejection.  If they published it then people would see why arguments being advanced publicly to support Jeremy are invalid.   

[notsure]

Hi scipio

You havent dissapointed me in your response and i will reslond but unfirtunately i have to pop out to pick my daughter up.

Will get back to you thanjs

[scipio_usmc]

Hi scipio

You havent dissapointed me in your response and i will reslond but unfirtunately i have to pop out to pick my daughter up.

Will get back to you thanjs

You might want to read some of the links I sent to you before you do. Obviously not all the statements but the Court decision and Report provide at least a solid foundation and you can read the various statements of the "witnesses" over time.

There is no need to rush a response. 

[mike tesko]

The fact of the matter is that Sheila's blood did not get into the sound moderator by drawback, it got there by being forced out of the end of the gun barrel into the sound moderator at the time of test firing, proven by her blood being found on the rear of baffle plate 5, then consecutive front and rear of all other baffles all the way to the top of the sound moderator, even to the extent of some of her blood possibly being forced out onto the moderators end cap at the top end of the silencer. this helps to demonstrate the opposite to the theory of blowback relied upon by the prosecution during trial. Blood got into the sound moderator after being blasted in there from the rifle barrel using test fire control ammunition. If the means of its presence in the silencer had been because of drawback, the blood would have been found at its lowest point on the baffle plates on a top surface of one of the baffles...

In other words, Bamber was stitched up by Fletchers dodgy blowback theory. Fletcher knew exactly how the blood had been forced into the silencer at the bottom end, and this was one of the reasons why the earlier test fire of the anshuzt rifle was deliberately withheld, because to have to admit that control rounds had been fired via the anshuzt rifle with the silencer fitted on an occasion before the date the blood was identified as being unique to Sheila, (between 12th and 19th September 1985), would have rendered the blowback theory irrelevant. So, Fletcher concealed his knowledge of the earlier test fire, so that his blowback theory would be accepted...

These are the facts...

[Adam]

I have just found out Nosture has been reading David Shaw's 'An innocent Man'.

A very poor and biased book and very poor choice if you want to find out about the case. So poor it's not even on Amazon.

A little investigation would have lead you to Wilkes's book. Easily the best book and not biased.

[Adam]

I have just read a few lines of David Shaw's the book.

Jeremy didn't dial 999 as he was not aware of police protocol !

[Adam]

However Nosture can prove me wrong and explain how Sheila committed the crime.

The crime scene is well documented.

Thank you in advance Nosture. .

[mike tesko]

What I don't quite get, and forgive me for mentioning it in this particular thread, is that the prosecutions ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, states that all the 25 shots fired were with use of ELEY .22LR ammunition, but Ralph Bamber never purchased ELEY .22LR ammunition, and RADCLIFEE the gun dealer never sold that type of ammunition to Ralph Bamber, Ralph Bamber purchased 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition, so it now seems that a third party brought along their own source of ELEY .22LR ammunition intent of using this in the shootings...

[scipio_usmc]

What I don't quite get, and forgive me for mentioning it in this particular thread, is that the prosecutions ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, states that all the 25 shots fired were with use of ELEY .22LR ammunition, but Ralph Bamber never purchased ELEY .22LR ammunition, and RADCLIFEE the gun dealer never sold that type of ammunition to Ralph Bamber, Ralph Bamber purchased 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition, so it now seems that a third party brought along their own source of ELEY .22LR ammunition intent of using this in the shootings...

How many times are you going to post the same disproved lie?

Fletcher wrote in his statement that the ammunition he tested was Eley subsonic Hollow points and that the ammunition used for the murders was the same.  By saying it was the same he was asserting the ammunition used for the murders was also Eley subsonic Hollow points. Some of the bullets were too damaged to say what they were form the bullets alone he had to used the casings.  Since the only ammo at WHF was Eley 22LR subsonic that was the only ammunition available for use in the Anschutz. 

If other ammo had been used it would be even more evidence Sheila wasn't responsible and that the murderer took ammunition to/from the scene.  Your babble doesn't help Jeremy
 

[mike tesko]

Ralph Bamber did not purchase ELEY .22LR ammunition, and Radcliffe never sold him any. Radcliffe sold Ralph Bamber 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition, not ELEY .22LR ammunition, now you know as well as I do that ELEY manufactured different types of .22 ammunition. Now, Bamber has been framed for these murders based upon a set of dodgy ELEY .22LR ammunition which was never at whf in the first instance. A third party brought their own ammunition intent on using it to kill everyone. Why would Jeremy if he be the killer bring his own different type of ELEY .22 ammunition to use in the shootings if he intended to kill his own sister and then pin the blame for the other four deaths, and her own suicide upon herself? It doesn't make sense, but the involvement of someone else in the murders does make sense. My money is on the scruffy looking hunched up man seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police first arrived at the farmhouse, being the number one suspect. At the time of this sighting Jeremy was in the company of the police in Pages Lane...

[scipio_usmc]

Ralph Bamber did not purchase ELEY .22LR ammunition, and Radcliffe never sold him any. Radcliffe sold Ralph Bamber 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition, not ELEY .22LR ammunition, now you know as well as I do that ELEY manufactured different types of .22 ammunition. Now, Bamber has been framed for these murders based upon a set of dodgy ELEY .22LR ammunition which was never at whf in the first instance. A third party brought their own ammunition intent on using it to kill everyone. Why would Jeremy if he be the killer bring his own different type of ELEY .22 ammunition to use in the shootings if he intended to kill his own sister and then pin the blame for the other four deaths, and her own suicide upon herself? It doesn't make sense, but the involvement of someone else in the murders does make sense. My money is on the scruffy looking hunched up man seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police first arrived at the farmhouse, being the number one suspect. At the time of this sighting Jeremy was in the company of the police in Pages Lane...

The ammunition purchased was 22LR which is short for 22 long rifle which is all over the box of the ammunition that Nevill purchased and for good reason- the Anschutz he purchased was chambered in 22LR.  All you are doing is humiliating yourself claiming they were some caliber other than 22LR. 

[mike tesko]

The ammunition purchased was 22LR which is short for 22 long rifle which is all over the box of the ammunition that Nevill purchased and for good reason- the Anschutz he purchased was chambered in 22LR.  All you are doing is humiliating yourself claiming they were some caliber other than 22LR.

the box inside which Ralph Bamber purchased the 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition was never photographed, neither have individual ELEY spent cartridges in with at the scene been photographed so that any of us can see for ourselves the fine detail at the heart of this investigation. The police have not withheld all this evidence for no good reason at all, they have not disclosed photographs of these things because to have done so, exposes the dodgy crime scene ammunition for what it is, for example, it is ELEY .22LR ammunition purchased by someone other than Ralph Bamber. The police knew this to be true, they knew that a variety of different types of .22 ammunition was used at the time of the shooting, but in order to present the case as simple and uncomplicated as possible, so that Bamber could have no opportunity to point the finger of suspicion at someone else, they made it into a one gun crime, using one kind if ammunition from the same batch. Unfortunately for them they fabricated the ballistics evidence using a type of ELEY .22LR ammunition that had not been sold too, or ever purchased by Ralph Bamber, and that is a fact...

[scipio_usmc]

the box inside which Ralph Bamber purchased the 500 rounds of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition was never photographed, neither have individual ELEY spent cartridges in with at the scene been photographed so that any of us can see for ourselves the fine detail at the heart of this investigation. The police have not withheld all this evidence for no good reason at all, they have not disclosed photographs of these things because to have done so, exposes the dodgy crime scene ammunition for what it is, for example, it is ELEY .22LR ammunition purchased by someone other than Ralph Bamber. The police knew this to be true, they knew that a variety of different types of .22 ammunition was used at the time of the shooting, but in order to present the case as simple and uncomplicated as possible, so that Bamber could have no opportunity to point the finger of suspicion at someone else, they made it into a one gun crime, using one kind if ammunition from the same batch. Unfortunately for them they fabricated the ballistics evidence using a type of ELEY .22LR ammunition that had not been sold too, or ever purchased by Ralph Bamber, and that is a fact...

If the ammunition had been different and fired by different weapons than Fletcher would have indicated such in his assessment.  Far from helping clear Jeremy such evidence would be additional proof that Sheila didn't kill herself and such would have been welcome by prosecutors not concealed.

The truth is that the Anschutz was used for all 25 shots and the ammunition used was the ammunition Nevill had purchased.  The defense has found nothing to prove otherwise you just ignore the evidence and simply make up that other ammunition and weapons were used though you have zero evidence to prove such.