Author Topic: Facts  (Read 50059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #90 on: May 07, 2015, 03:00:PM »
 I would have said that the final straw came when Sheila met Christine. A far cry from the staunch,religious fanatic who adopted Sheila. Christine was the mother that Sheila had missed. So sad.

On the night of the murders,Sheila was expecting a call,or possibly going to make one given the time difference in the two countries ( not sure of the difference in Canada and the UK ) which would explain why Sheila wouldn't have gone to bed that night. It's possible that the bedroom phone could have been moved by Sheila to avoid waking anyone up during the conversation,or indeed being cut-off mid-conversation.

For all we know,there could well have been communication between Sheila and Christine that evening,and after that things went hay-wire.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #91 on: May 07, 2015, 05:35:PM »
No--------------my " theory" isn't going to go away. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33775
Re: Facts
« Reply #92 on: May 07, 2015, 06:01:PM »
I would have said that the final straw came when Sheila met Christine. A far cry from the staunch,religious fanatic who adopted Sheila. Christine was the mother that Sheila had missed. So sad.

On the night of the murders,Sheila was expecting a call,or possibly going to make one given the time difference in the two countries ( not sure of the difference in Canada and the UK ) which would explain why Sheila wouldn't have gone to bed that night. It's possible that the bedroom phone could have been moved by Sheila to avoid waking anyone up during the conversation,or indeed being cut-off mid-conversation.

For all we know,there could well have been communication between Sheila and Christine that evening,and after that things went hay-wire.



Lookout, isn't that rather like saying that someone died in the middle of having a nightmare? Unless there was confirmation from Christine that there was a conversation arranged between them that night -unlikely, given that her children supposedly knew nothing of Sheila's existence and SOMEWHAT cruel for any communication to take place in the home of her adopted mother, who would undoubtedly been hurt, when she had a perfectly adequate home of her own in which to make/take phone-calls- I think any suggestion that such would occur is gossip/hearsay or fantasy because it can't possibly be known unless it comes directly from Christine.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44386
Re: Facts
« Reply #93 on: May 07, 2015, 06:11:PM »
No I think there was another influence - but I am keeping my thoughts on that to my self .

But they did go further and further up the chain - and if you read the Dickinson report there is no doubt they did have influence.

They did because Taff refused to contemplate it was murder/suicide.

Peter Simpson ordered an immediate investigation after speaking to the relatives.

Taff still wouldn't change after Jeremy denied involvement. 'Julie must be lying', he said.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #94 on: May 07, 2015, 06:22:PM »


Lookout, isn't that rather like saying that someone died in the middle of having a nightmare? Unless there was confirmation from Christine that there was a conversation arranged between them that night -unlikely, given that her children supposedly knew nothing of Sheila's existence and SOMEWHAT cruel for any communication to take place in the home of her adopted mother, who would undoubtedly been hurt, when she had a perfectly adequate home of her own in which to make/take phone-calls- I think any suggestion that such would occur is gossip/hearsay or fantasy because it can't possibly be known unless it comes directly from Christine.





Not forgetting that Sheila was rebelling,and any arrangement for a call to be made to Canada,would further act as part of the rebelling,no matter where the call was made from, as long as it was in earshot of June.
I understand that a call WAS expected,and if it took place,what would Christine have known what followed later ? Apart from she she'd only spoken to Sheila the night before,which I haven't heard whether or not that call took place.

I imagine that June had felt a sense of rejection at having been told about Christine and how she'd interacted with the twins. Not only that,imagine June being told of the kisses and cuddles,etc,to which June would also have felt guilt in not being able to express her love in the same way ( not her fault,it was the way she herself was brought up )
Sheila had found something/someone who'd been missing in her life and must have been overjoyed,though I doubt that June would have shared her enjoyment.In fact,I think that she took the whole meeting,etc quite badly and would have felt more inadequate knowing that Sheila was part of Christine.

This definitely would have had a bearing on what happened that night,I'm sure of it. Even at the mention of a phone call would have been enough to spark things off.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33775
Re: Facts
« Reply #95 on: May 07, 2015, 06:35:PM »




Not forgetting that Sheila was rebelling,and any arrangement for a call to be made to Canada,would further act as part of the rebelling,no matter where the call was made from, as long as it was in earshot of June.
I understand that a call WAS expected,and if it took place,what would Christine have known what followed later ? Apart from she she'd only spoken to Sheila the night before,which I haven't heard whether or not that call took place.

I imagine that June had felt a sense of rejection at having been told about Christine and how she'd interacted with the twins. Not only that,imagine June being told of the kisses and cuddles,etc,to which June would also have felt guilt in not being able to express her love in the same way ( not her fault,it was the way she herself was brought up )
Sheila had found something/someone who'd been missing in her life and must have been overjoyed,though I doubt that June would have shared her enjoyment.In fact,I think that she took the whole meeting,etc quite badly and would have felt more inadequate knowing that Sheila was part of Christine.

This definitely would have had a bearing on what happened that night,I'm sure of it. Even at the mention of a phone call would have been enough to spark things off.



Hmm. You may well be right, Lookout. However, for the first time ever, I'm going to do an "Adam" on you and ask for the source from which you got the information that a call from Christine was expected.

It isn't difficult to imagine the scenario you paint but it doesn't make it factual. If we believe that Sheila had found June through God, the picture of an angry, rebelling Sheila wanting to rub June's nose in her own happiness doesn't fit.


Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #96 on: May 07, 2015, 06:59:PM »


Hmm. You may well be right, Lookout. However, for the first time ever, I'm going to do an "Adam" on you and ask for the source from which you got the information that a call from Christine was expected.

It isn't difficult to imagine the scenario you paint but it doesn't make it factual. If we believe that Sheila had found June through God, the picture of an angry, rebelling Sheila wanting to rub June's nose in her own happiness doesn't fit.





The source of the phone-call I've read about,but this time I can't remember from where.

To be perfectly honest,I don't think anyone realises how ill June was,and I know I get bombarded every time I say it,but she was still visiting the GP up to the tragedy. Even Jeremy hasn't got a clue about his mother because if I wrote and told him how I felt about her,he'd go apesh1t.

In Claire Powell's book,it states that June had little or no sympathy for Sheila,as it was herself who was ill. Underneath that gentle and gentile façade,there was a harsh persona.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #97 on: May 07, 2015, 07:14:PM »
Not forgetting also that a year after Sheila had been adopted,June had a breakdown which led to her having ECT therapy,for severe depression,which meant that the child born to Christine,was passed to June,then passed again to foster carers ? while June was in hospital. Then various nursemaids were called in to assist while June recuperated. Not the ideal start for any child,as that in itself would manifest into behavioural problems,which it did,when boarding school was on the list. And so it went on.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33775
Re: Facts
« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2015, 07:15:PM »




The source of the phone-call I've read about,but this time I can't remember from where.

To be perfectly honest,I don't think anyone realises how ill June was,and I know I get bombarded every time I say it,but she was still visiting the GP up to the tragedy. Even Jeremy hasn't got a clue about his mother because if I wrote and told him how I felt about her,he'd go apesh1t.

In Claire Powell's book,it states that June had little or no sympathy for Sheila,as it was herself who was ill. Underneath that gentle and gentile façade,there was a harsh persona.


Lookout, recently I feel as if you have slagged me off up hill and down dale for my "tone." I wonder, do you realize that, other than believing that Jeremy is guilty, I support most of what you believe.

Whilst there doesn't seem to be concrete proof that June was visiting her doctor -or WHY- until just prior to her death, I'm not surprised to learn that she may have been and I fully accept that with her mental fragility, life was stressful.

I find it very difficult to accept what Claire Powell says because she didn't know June -I have NEVER heard it said of her by those who did know her that she had an underlying "harsh persona"- so her information must be second/third hand. No matter, it sells books.

As you give the source of your information re the phone call as something you had read, I'm certain that you'll understand that I can't accept it as being fact.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Facts
« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2015, 07:21:PM »
lookout reading Colin's book again and it appears he has a very low opinion of poor June and most of what he says and thinks came from Sheila.  She appeared to be hard on Sheila but this could have been "tough love" none of us really knows :(

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2015, 07:27:PM »

Lookout, recently I feel as if you have slagged me off up hill and down dale for my "tone." I wonder, do you realize that, other than believing that Jeremy is guilty, I support most of what you believe.

Whilst there doesn't seem to be concrete proof that June was visiting her doctor -or WHY- until just prior to her death, I'm not surprised to learn that she may have been and I fully accept that with her mental fragility, life was stressful.

I find it very difficult to accept what Claire Powell says because she didn't know June -I have NEVER heard it said of her by those who did know her that she had an underlying "harsh persona"- so her information must be second/third hand. No matter, it sells books.

As you give the source of your information re the phone call as something you had read, I'm certain that you'll understand that I can't accept it as being fact.





Excuse me ? Slagged you off ? When and to whom ? That is indeed a bolt from the blue.Where did it come from ? I haven't slagged anyone off.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33775
Re: Facts
« Reply #101 on: May 07, 2015, 08:12:PM »




Excuse me ? Slagged you off ? When and to whom ? That is indeed a bolt from the blue.Where did it come from ? I haven't slagged anyone off.


You posted a very lengthy piece on what you saw as my condescending attitude and how it -I- had changed since I'd come to believe Jeremy was guilty. Slag off. Attack. Censure. Rebuke. What ever name you choose it was hardly a complimentary post. I made an attempt at explanation, ie cause and effect, but the general consensus appeared to be that the fault was AAAALLLL mine. Nonetheless, I hold to what I said in my previous post. There are less differences in our beliefs than you appear to suppose.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Facts
« Reply #102 on: May 07, 2015, 08:19:PM »
Where is this post ?

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33775
Re: Facts
« Reply #103 on: May 07, 2015, 08:44:PM »
Where is this post ?



God knows. But it definitely isn't lingering in my in-box waiting to be pulled out at the requisite time, although I believe we did have someone who kept every post and pm which was sent them. Not MY style.

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: Facts
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2015, 08:47:PM »
lookout reading Colin's book again and it appears he has a very low opinion of poor June and most of what he says and thinks came from Sheila.  She appeared to be hard on Sheila but this could have been "tough love" none of us really knows :(

Colin writes that he cannot judge Jeremy for having killed, because if he hadn´t killed June he would have himself!!

I can never get over this - Colin is convinced Jeremy killed the whole family, including his sons, for Gods sake, but he is talking about June!!!!
I don´t understand Colin, but there were some strong feelings there concerning June, probably also from Sheila´s side.