Facts

[scipio_usmc]

Rabbits blood is the nearest to human blood------------read up about it.

Rabbit blood is quite different from human blood.  A defense expert claims the AK1 Rabbit ENZYME is close to the human AK/1 enzyme.  The properties of human blood and rabbit blood are not close. rabbit blood will not show up in a test as human blood.

[lookout]

Rabbit blood is quite different from human blood.  A defense expert claims the AK1 Rabbit ENZYME is close to the human AK/1 enzyme.  The properties of human blood and rabbit blood are not close. rabbit blood will not show up in a test as human blood.

I said it was nearest,especially when tested.

Anyway,the way the specimens were dealt with from the crime was abysmal,as unless tested immediately,they deteriorate. This same laxed procedure happened in the Susan May case when a sample known to have been tested had sat on an officers desk for quite a time.

[scipio_usmc]

A lot of the "evidence" is nothing more than unconfirmed hearsay.

And saying Sheila could not have done it is not necessarily proof that JB did it. How do you know there was not someone else in the house forcing NB to make the call to get JB there?

Again I am not saying that is what happened - but is it impossible?

JB indicated he was not the only person who knew how to get in and out of the house.

I too have seen no proof that JB was the murderer. And yet he is supposed to be stupid enough to have made several mistakes along the way.

You close your eyes to the proof and intentionally mischaracterize it as hearsay.  All that means is you refuse to face the truth nothing more.

You never actually address the evidence that convicted him and make claims that are pointless just to obfuscate.  For instance, you claim other people knew how to get in the house through the windows.  You seem to be suggesting that someone else may have committed the murders and forced Nevill to place a call to Jeremy implicating Sheila. Why would someone do that it makes no sense at all. Even less sense would be Nevill complying.

What you raise doesn't amount to reasonable doubt it amounts to red herrings to deflect from the fact you can't refute any of the evidence that convicted Jeremy.  Ignoring it doesn't refute it that just makes your efforts worthless. An advocate has to take the evidence on directly and competently.

I have yet to see anyone here who asserts Jeremy is innocent serious try to attack the evidence in earnest with the exception of Mike and he attacks it with distortions and misrepresentations.  He recognizes the evidence that Sheila didn't kill herself is overwhelming so he approaches things by trying to pretend police killed her instead of Jeremy. If he actually had any genuine evidence to prove his claims it would be worth something- the concept is right but the evidence isn't there so he makes up his own.  That includes making up the bullets the Anschutz fired were 35 grain in order to pretend some of the bullets were a different caliber and pretending Sheila only had 1 gunshot wound at the time she was seen by Dr Craig and the other was fired later.  Because his claims are made up his efforts of trying to attack the evidence fails to accomplish anything. If he actually tried by using real evidence even though deficient that would still be better than the efforts of people who don't try at all. I would give him props for trying at least if not for the deceptions. 
 
He does deserve props for one thing though he actually recognizes what needs to be refuted.  He demonstrates that by making up things to try disputing it. 

[scipio_usmc]

I said it was nearest,especially when tested.

Anyway,the way the specimens were dealt with from the crime was abysmal,as unless tested immediately,they deteriorate. This same laxed procedure happened in the Susan May case when a sample known to have been tested had sat on an officers desk for quite a time.

Rabbit blood is not near human blood when tested, the difference is significant there is no way to mistake rabbit blood for human blood.  The defense expert posited maybe the following happened:

1) there was rabbit blood inside prior to the murders
2) June's blood splashed on top of flake of dried rabbit blood
3) By some miracle the Rabbit's AK/1 enzyme survived though June's much more hardy AK2-1 enzyme didn't
4) those doing the test failed to appreciate it was a flake of Rabbit blood that had been mixed with human blood and mistook it all for human blood and messed up the enzyme test and mistook the Ak/1 enzyme for a human enzyme because they are close.

This theory is absurd, they would have detected various elements of the rabbit's blood if there had been a flake of rabbit blood. It was not made to the Court because it is absurd and no expert woudl assert such a stupid thing.

[keepers]

Adam... Firstly you've assumed I'm female and I'm not. Just like the expert Kerry daines you've made a judgement on somebody you've never met and got it completely wrong, I titled this thread FACTS so let's stick to them... Only one living being knows the truth.. Jeremy.... Fact. You and I can surmise all we want but the fact is neither of us know. I'm just saying on the evidence alone you have to aquit, as there is no evidence...FACT

[lookout]

 I reckon the tests were impaired anyway. Utterly useless when you have to resort to testing an old dried up flake which disintegrated.

[Jan]

Rabbit blood is not near human blood when tested, the difference is significant there is no way to mistake rabbit blood for human blood.  The defense expert posited maybe the following happened:

1) there was rabbit blood inside prior to the murders
2) June's blood splashed on top of flake of dried rabbit blood
3) By some miracle the Rabbit's AK/1 enzyme survived though June's much more hardy AK2-1 enzyme didn't
4) those doing the test failed to appreciate it was a flake of Rabbit blood that had been mixed with human blood and mistook it all for human blood and messed up the enzyme test and mistook the Ak/1 enzyme for a human enzyme because they are close.

This theory is absurd, they would have detected various elements of the rabbit's blood if there had been a flake of rabbit blood. It was not made to the Court because it is absurd and no expert woudl assert such a stupid thing.

so what was the animal blood on the outside of the silencer ?

[keepers]

Thanks lookout. We're talking 30 years ago, they tested the blood to destructive and to this day no one knows 100% who or what it belonged to

[Jan]

Thanks lookout. We're talking 30 years ago, they tested the blood to destructive and to this day no one knows 100% who or what it belonged to

I think that is what make the case so difficult because the silencer is the only bit of physical evidence - and I don't think the jury understood the blood evidence. We have had chances to read the available documents in our own time without pressure and it still is not clear.

[scipio_usmc]

Adam... Firstly you've assumed I'm female and I'm not. Just like the expert Kerry daines you've made a judgement on somebody you've never met and got it completely wrong, I titled this thread FACTS so let's stick to them... Only one living being knows the truth.. Jeremy.... Fact. You and I can surmise all we want but the fact is neither of us know. I'm just saying on the evidence alone you have to aquit, as there is no evidence...FACT

The evidence proves:

1) that Jeremy was planning to kill his family
2) That Jeremy staged the bullets in the kitchen after the murders.
3) that in advance of the murders Jeremy removed the phone from the master bedroom
4) That Nevill and June were shot in the bedroom together then after the gun was empty the killer and Nevill went to the kitchen and fought
5) That Nevill would not have been able to make any call to Jeremy because the injuries received in the bedroom precluded him from speaking
6) Sheila didn't load a gun, beat Nevill or shoot anyone else
7) Sheila didn't kill herself
Jeremy lied about calling police before Julie he called her first. This further undermines his claim he received a call from Nevill because someone in his place who actually had would have instantly called 999 or rushed over not have called Julie.

The combination of evidence means we know Jeremy killed his family there is no doubt.  This is not like proven MOJs where little evidence existed or it was established that police lied- the evidence of his guilt is substantial and zero evidence of police fabricating anything.

[scipio_usmc]

I reckon the tests were impaired anyway. Utterly useless when you have to resort to testing an old dried up flake which disintegrated.

Nope not useless. It was validly tested, even the defense's own blood expert conceded such and that was why he was not called at trial by the defense he would have helped make the prosecution's case.

[Jan]

does anyone know if the jury were shown pictures of Sheilas hands and feet or did they just hear the pathology reports ?

[scipio_usmc]

Thanks lookout. We're talking 30 years ago, they tested the blood to destructive and to this day no one knows 100% who or what it belonged to

Nonsense, we know for sure it was human blood and the blood type.

[scipio_usmc]

I think that is what make the case so difficult because the silencer is the only bit of physical evidence - and I don't think the jury understood the blood evidence. We have had chances to read the available documents in our own time without pressure and it still is not clear.

It is clear to me and other rational people.

The lab found human blood of group A on at least the first 5-7 baffles.  The blood was group A.  In addition a flake of blood trapped between baffles 1 and 2 was found to be human Group A blood and enzyme Ak1 which helps establish it was Sheila's blood not June's.

After the lab removed all visible blood, the defense expert tested it and found microscopic traces of group A blood on the first 8 baffles.

Clearly the blood got on the first 8 baffles through drawback that is the only way it could get on 8 successive baffles it was sprayed inside.

June had a different enzyme than Sheila.  June's enzyme was more hardy than Sheila's so the fact Ak1 was found means the Ak2-1 enzyme woudl have been present too had June's blood been in there. June didn't suffer any contact wounds that would result in drawback while Sheila did.  If the moderator had not been attached Sheila's blood would have been found in the rifle.   

It is all easy to understand and follow.

[Adam]

Adam... Firstly you've assumed I'm female and I'm not. Just like the expert Kerry daines you've made a judgement on somebody you've never met and got it completely wrong, I titled this thread FACTS so let's stick to them... Only one living being knows the truth.. Jeremy.... Fact. You and I can surmise all we want but the fact is neither of us know. I'm just saying on the evidence alone you have to aquit, as there is no evidence...FACT

Yes it is a fact that only one living person knows.

I just go by the evidence. Which shows certain guilt.