Author Topic: Julie would have been called up:  (Read 2201 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 08:11:PM »
Bamber's supporters have often claimed there was no forensic evidence linking him to the massacre.

Is it correct that there was no forensic evidence ?

Bamber's footprints and fingerprints will be all over the house. He was a regular visitor. Either sneaking through windows to look at wills, or popping over for supper and a rabbit massacre. So no possible joy for the police here.

Bamber had a month to dispose of clothes. Even so John Hayward found human blood on Bamber's jacket, bathrobe and in his car.

The crime was committed by Sheila or Bamber. There is a lot of forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila. Which automatically shows it was Bamber.

June being shot with her head on the pillow is forensic evidence pointing to Bamber rather than Sheila.

There is the silencer evidence.

There is the found hack saw which Bamber admitted using to get in and out of WHF. But apparently not on the massacre night. As well as the discovery that the kitchen window could be banged shut from outside is more  fore

Adam please explain to me how June being shot with her head on the pillow indicates Jeremy shot her not Sheila.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2015, 08:13:PM »
Well he said he would be able to 'force her to testify'. But didn't she attend voluntarily last time ?

Adam I am not sure that Julie attended voluntarily I am sure Scipio will add his comments.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44293
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 08:16:PM »
Do you think that June slept through Sheila's craziness ? And that Neville didn't wake her up. For assistance, her own protection and to stay with the twins ?

Why ring Jeremy if there was already another adult at WHF ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2015, 08:16:PM »
Adam guess Simon MacKay will not be doing anything now to represent Jeremy think he was dismissed :'(

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44293
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2015, 08:17:PM »
Adam I am not sure that Julie attended voluntarily I am sure Scipio will add his comments.

Well she didn't testify so the reason for attending could not have been strong.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2015, 08:20:PM »
Do you think that June slept through Sheila's craziness ? And that Neville didn't wake her up. For assistance, her own protection and to stay with the twins ?

Why ring Jeremy if there was already another adult at WHF ?

Adam you know that I don't think Sheila shot her family but it is only fair to see things from both sides.  If Sheila had been capable of using and reloading the rifle she could have murdered her family just as Jeremy did the main reason I think she did not murder her family is she was too clean when the police arrived on the scene had she changed and showered after the massacre where were her stained clothes the police never found them.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2015, 08:22:PM »
Well she didn't testify so the reason for attending could not have been strong.

Adam maybe no evidence existed to justify her to testify I will have to read up on this.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44293
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2015, 08:23:PM »
Adam you know that I don't think Sheila shot her family but it is only fair to see things from both sides.  If Sheila had been capable of using and reloading the rifle she could have murdered her family just as Jeremy did the main reason I think she did not murder her family is she was too clean when the police arrived on the scene had she changed and showered after the massacre where were her stained clothes the police never found them.

How do you think Sheila did it ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44293
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2015, 08:27:PM »
With June there are three suspensions of disbelief required:

Neville refused to wake her.

June did not wake from hearing all the noise.

Things escalated but Neville chose to ring Jeremy, rather than wake June.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2015, 08:31:PM »
How do you think Sheila did it ?

Adam I have tried and tried to think how Sheila could have murdered her family NGB posted on here last week that he thought it would have been possible for Sheila to beat her Father whilst in a psychotic rage but then we come back to how clean she was and it has been suggested that she showered and changed her clothes where did she hide her soiled clothes none were found.

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 08:37:PM »
How do you think Sheila did it ?

I know Susan was polite and answered your question, but why do you ask her, she doesn´t think Sheila did it?

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2015, 08:37:PM »
With June there are three suspensions of disbelief required:

Neville refused to wake her.

June did not wake from hearing all the noise.

Things escalated but Neville chose to ring Jeremy, rather than wake June.

Adam I can only think June was shot first this would all happen so quickly Ralph was shot trying to escape downstairs to a phone maybe to call the police but he was fatally shot in the kitchen.  Sheila heard the noise went to her parents bedroom was shot twice then alas her wee boys shot whilst sleeping in their beds.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2015, 09:24:PM »
Alias it was always her word against his and her evidence alone would not have convicted him they needed the silencer evidence as well and that was nearly not enough he could have walked had he had one more jury member on his side.

Alias and others incorrectly assert that her word was not evidence.  Her word was evidence and her word alone could be a basis of a conviction so long as there is no evidence to establish Jeremy can't have done it. Even without the moderator evidence a jury could still have decided that the other evidence (such as lack of any evidence to tie Sheila to the murders as would be present had she actually committed them).

Thus undermining the moderator evidence alone would be insufficient to establish Jeremy's innocence.  Undermining it could be sufficient to win a new trial but might not before some judges and certainly wouldn't establish his innocence.  So that would be a reason why Jeremy's defense would want to try to attack all the evidence that convicted him.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2015, 09:30:PM »
Hello Scipio thanks for that I was always under the impression that Julie's evidence alone was not enough to convict him but on reflection I guess at the end of the day it was all down to who the Jury believed Julie or Jeremy and I guess they believed her.  One would have thought the Defence would have tried to discredit her in someway i.e. cheque fraud drugs but maybe they are not allowed to do this in Court.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: Julie would have been called up:
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 11:44:PM »
Hello Scipio thanks for that I was always under the impression that Julie's evidence alone was not enough to convict him but on reflection I guess at the end of the day it was all down to who the Jury believed Julie or Jeremy and I guess they believed her.  One would have thought the Defence would have tried to discredit her in someway i.e. cheque fraud drugs but maybe they are not allowed to do this in Court.

Right in a he said/she said situation the trier of fact (jury in a jury trial/ judge in a bench trial) decides who to believe. If there is evidence that establishes either is lying that makes it easier to tell who to believe. 

The defense could potentially have wanted to question her to try to establish she lied as a back-up plan so that even if they fail in discrediting the moderator that they could try to get a retrial by virtue of undermining her evidence. 

The defense could also have wanted to question her to see what she remembers if anything simply as a preview of what her testimony would be in the event they did manage to get a retrial.  If the moderator evidence were tossed her testimony would be even more significant in a retrial.  If they found out that she would make a useless witness that could end up resulting in the government not even bothering with a retrial.  It also could help them find some weaknesses based on her memory failings.  So they could have essentially wanted to do strategic probing which can be considered underhanded but lawyers do such things fairly often.  I can't even begin to tell all the different games that are played.

   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry