Author Topic: A fair trial?  (Read 41442 times)

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lucy70

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2011, 11:05:PM »
Lucy70 read the thread re Essex standard that will tell you more

Lucy70 do you think it will be brilliant if JB could get access to the recordings that night the names don't have to be released
Yes but weren't the recordings (if they existed) supposedly taped over after a couple of weeks as a matter of course before JB was even suspected of being involved? Don't think there's any point speculating what might be being witheld without any evidence that it actually is.

Offline shonapugs

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2011, 11:11:PM »
So, no recordings, no photo of Sheila on the bed, and apparently, no Taff Jones notebook. So, nothing. Back to square one.

Offline Alias

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2011, 11:58:PM »
Re: JB looking guilty, my doubts began when I saw pictures of him at the funeral, wearing that pathetic "poor me" expression.

It did look rather fake, but I wonder if that's because he knew the press were there and he knew that everyone would be looking at him. You know how it is when people expect you to be a certain way - you become self-conscious and worry about how you're appearing to others.

I think it looks fake too; but at the same time, his face is all puffy. You can tell he has been crying. I think it could very well have been self-consciousness.

Offline shonapugs

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2011, 12:04:AM »
JM didn't look puffy, though. IMO, she looked hard and watchful, if that's a word. She looked very tense. I still believe that she told the truth from day one (sorry, Jack) but she looked very uncomfortable. JB, on the other hand, looked like he was enjoying being the centre of attention. Again, IMO.

Offline Alias

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2011, 12:09:AM »
JM didn't look puffy, though. IMO, she looked hard and watchful, if that's a word. She looked very tense. I still believe that she told the truth from day one (sorry, Jack) but she looked very uncomfortable. JB, on the other hand, looked like he was enjoying being the centre of attention. Again, IMO.

Well, not exactly from day ONE  8) - (if it was the truth she was telling).

Offline shonapugs

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2011, 12:13:AM »
Hmmm. No, you're right. Not exactly from day one. Just when she was backed into a corner. I'm afraid that the solution might just be the simple one. JB did pay, but possibly gave JM the wrong name. Is that called a ringer?

Jackiepreece

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2011, 12:18:AM »
Shonapugs
I can't have that did I just hear you call jm dodgy what could you mean poor girl!

Offline shonapugs

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2011, 12:19:AM »
Having said that, I'm not convinced that McDonald's alibi checked out. It sounded pretty lame to me.

Offline Alias

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2011, 12:21:AM »
Hmmm. No, you're right. Not exactly from day one. Just when she was backed into a corner. I'm afraid that the solution might just be the simple one. JB did pay, but possibly gave JM the wrong name. Is that called a ringer?

I think Jeremy Bamber would have arranged for a better alibi if he had hired a hitman. I think all people who hire hitmen (not that I personally KNOW any) make sure they have airtight alibis. It seems implausible to me. He wasn´t that stupid.

Jackiepreece

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2011, 12:45:AM »
Shonapugs your faith in mugford never ceases to amaze me so now are you saying JB forgot to tell jm he had decided on a different hit man and I wish I could be such an expert on body language it might be a useful skill one day

Offline shonapugs

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2011, 12:59:AM »
Oh, Jackie, stop. JM was just as dodgy as JB, but she really was backed into a corner, Damned if she did, etc. She didn't murder the family, you have to admit that, but someone did. Sadly, looking at the images of Sheila, it wasn't her, either. So, what does that leave us with?. If it wasn't JB, then it must have been someone with a reason. And the reason would be money. Why did JB leave strategically-placed guns, fully loaded, on that night? Why did JB call his sister a "nutter"? Why didn't he rush to the farm to help his dad? Why was Ralph so badly injured? How on earth could Sheila have shot herself, with all the pain and fear involved, then found the wherwithall to do it again?

Jackiepreece

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2011, 01:18:AM »
I really have not got a clue what you mean mugford backed herself in a corner what do you mean by that and please stop talking of motives and that must mean JB did it.  How do you know the relatives didn't hire a hit man and forced Neville to ring JB. The relatives were more desperate for cash than jb

Mike accused you of being Ann Eaton are you. You are certain jm was telling the truth but how could you.

Did u read my earlier post about what jm said about the phone call the night of the murders she got that wrong didn't she.  Not one shred of evidence from the person who dressed to impress for the cameras at the funeral.

chochokeira

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2011, 01:35:AM »
Shonapugs
I can't have that did I just hear you call jm dodgy what could you mean poor girl!

+1 Jackie!

chochokeira

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2011, 02:15:AM »
European Convention on Human Rights: Article 6 - fair trial

"Article 6 provides a detailed right to a fair trial, including:


The right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal

Within reasonable time

the presumption of innocence

and other minimum rights for those charged with a criminal offence

adequate time and facilities to prepare their defence

access to legal representation
 
The right to examine witnesses against them or have them examined

right to the free assistance of an interpreter."


The right to an impartial tribunal and the presumption of innocence were denied to Jeremy Bamber when the judge referred to Sheila as murdered. In so doing, the judge effectively directed the jury to find Bamber guilty.

The right to adequate facilities to prepare his defence was denied to Jeremy Bamber when thousands of pieces of evidence were placed under a PII gagging order which denied JB's defence access to these, thereby preventing the defence doing their job. JB's defence could not possibly have properly represented their client under such restrictive circumstances.

The right to have witnesses examined was denied to Jeremy Bamber when the prosecution used the PII gagging order to withhold witness statements from the defence: statements such as that of the electricity meter reader who had witnessed one of Sheila's psychotic episodes just hours prior to the murders. Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the employee, and found out that he had made a witness statement to the original investigating officers, only for it not to be disclosed to Jeremy or his legal team, and not listed as being withheld under pii rules.


Jeremy Bamber's defence and any hope of justice or a fair trial for Jeremy Bamber were locked in a PII straight Jacket from which justice and the truth had no hope of escaping.

Had any of my tribunal clients been placed in such a prejudicial situation, they would have had no hope of a fair hearing of their case.


"A fair trial might be impeded by:

Contempt of court (typically by the media or jurors)

Witness intimidation

Non-disclosure of evidence, through malice or through abuse of State Secrets Privilege (in the USA) or Public interest immunity (in the UK)"

In my opinion, contempt of court by media, or the press, includes the press reaching, or suggesting they are interested in agreeing, an arrangement with a trial witness, prior to a trial, for the witness to sell their story to a newspaper. If this happened in JM's case, then it prejudiced this trial and Bamber's right to a fair trial,

In my opinion, this trial was prejudicial to justice.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 07:30:AM by chochokeira »

Offline Kaldin

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2011, 08:58:AM »
Bless you, Kaldin, you truly are the voice of reason! And I know what you mean. But I can't help feeling that if my closest relatives were all dead, in such horrific circumstances, I'd only just be clinging on to sanity myself, not wondering if the camera was capturing my best side (and little kiss-curl). And yes, I know that they were not blood-relations, Jack, before you jump in, but they were the only family he'd ever known. But I guess that we're all different, and JB might have been made of sterner stuff. But, I'm sorry, he (and JM) really did look very, very dodgy.

Thank you Shona.

I don't think the fact they weren't blood relations is relevant - they were his parents, his sister, and niece.

I don't think Jeremy was necessarily worrying about his best side, I think it's possible that he was self-conscious because he knew people would be looking at him and expecting him to react a certain way so he reacted that way and that's why it looks a bit fake.