The killlers

[lookout]

His not Lancelot - just Liesalot! (soz )

Not as bad as some of the Spamalot on here. -Spinalot.

[scipio_usmc]

I found the testimony from jones when he said he was present whilst the window was being tested and he never saw them try and lock it from the outside.

And you feel free to find it strange . I will find the testimony. I find it strange that the family were told very early on that the windows were secured/locked from the inside by the police and made it their mission to prove that was not true. And I found it strange that when asked outright in court the question appeared to be avoided - I am sure Barlow could have referred to his notes if he wanted to.

That was on August 13 when 2 people hired by the defense took photos and banged on it without trying to set the latch.  It wasn't on 8/22 when Barlow successfully locked it from the outside with the family.  Jones' testimony about them not trying to set the latch was devastating because it completely demolished any attempt to use their examination to rebut the prosecution assertion someone could reach through and balance the catch then bang on the window to make it lock.  They never even tried it so can't say it wasn't possible. So this was a victory for the prosecution.
 

[Jan]

Oh, I've seen very little trial testimony, especially on this site. His comments are quite clear in the screen shot that has been posted. It seems like supporters keep changing the goal posts - at first they claimed the windows hadn't been checked - when Scip finds in the Dickinson report that they actually HAD been the question is now was this testified to at trial.  Seems a bit of a strange position to take to be honest.

And actually just to be pedantic in his note book he says CLOSED from the outside not secured or locked

I can do that with my windows as well .

And it was just ONE window that could look CLOSED and it was small . If he went out headfirst I would have thought he would have landed on his head That could have given them some clues if they had looked harder. 

[Caroline]

Because when Barlow was asked in court did he see the window locked from the outside - he did not answer yes. He answered he saw nothing unusual about the window.

That's all I am asking because if not we have the family saying it did lock ,but no independent witness willing to swear on oath that the window they are saying was used could LOCK from the outside.

All I am looking for is the truth - we have gone round in circles on this for ever.

If Barlow did swear on oath in court he could see that window locked from the outside and JB could get through that window then I will shut up about it.

Are yu talking about Barlow or Jones?

[scipio_usmc]

And actually just to be pedantic in his note book he says CLOSED from the outside not secured or locked

I can do that with my windows as well .

And it was just ONE window that could look CLOSED and it was small . If he went out headfirst I would have thought he would have landed on his head That could have given them some clues if they had looked harder. 

He clearly used the terms open to mean able to unlock and closed to mean able to lock. He said the sash windows could not be closed from the outside but the kitchen window could be.  If one doesn't understand what he meant then it is because of a lack of desire to understand.

[Jan]

Are yu talking about Barlow or Jones?

I have quite a good memory and I am sure I saw an exert of Barlows testimony - but I have to admit defeat I cant find it - from memory he did NOT answer the question directly.

I just found the testimony from Jones. He was there while the window was being tested ( could have been a different day) there were photographers there as well.- banged several times- he said he did not see it locked from the outside.

[Caroline]

That was on August 13 when 2 people hired by the defense took photos and banged on it without trying to set the latch.  It wasn't on 8/22 when Barlow successfully locked it from the outside with the family.  Jones' testimony about them not trying to set the latch was devastating because it completely demolished any attempt to use their examination to rebut the prosecution assertion someone could reach through and balance the catch then bang on the window to make it lock.  They never even tried it so can't say it wasn't possible. So this was a victory for the prosecution.
 

If the defence thought for one moment they had an avenue, they would have jumped all over it - in this instance they would have been mad to even contemplate it.

[maggie]

He clearly used the terms open to mean able to unlock and closed to mean able to lock. He said the sash windows could not be closed from the outside but the kitchen window could be.  If one doesn't understand what he meant then it is because of a lack of desire to understand.

Obviously it's easy to lock the main casement window but I still question how anyone can lock the small window above the main window.  Not arguing just saying and I might point out I have a very strong desire to understand and quite willing to accept what you say but find it hard to believe anyone could lock the top window, maybe they could let it fall to appear to be locked.

[Jane]

Obviously it's easy to lock the main casement window but I still question how anyone can lock the small window above the main window.  Not arguing just saying and I might point out I have a very strong desire to understand and quite willing to accept what you say but find it hard to believe anyone could lock the top window, maybe they could let it fall to appear to be locked.

Hm, but as Jeremy said he could gain access -and exit- that way and actually went on to prove it in the incident with his passport, it's more about accepting it, than understanding it.

[maggie]

Hm, but as Jeremy said he could gain access -and exit- that way and actually went on to prove it in the incident with his passport, it's more about accepting it, than understanding it.

Well not really because he didn't lock it behind him, he left a note saying he had climbed through the window and out again and asked her to secure it....

[Caroline]

Well not really because he didn't lock it behind him, he left a note saying he had climbed through the window and out again and asked her to secure it....

A case of Jeremy (once again) over egging. 

[Jane]

Well not really because he didn't lock it behind him, he left a note saying he had climbed through the window and out again and asked her to secure it....

Given the amount of plods going through the house, probably looking at all security with little more than cursory glances because they thought it was a suicide and 4 murders, it's unlikely that proper checks were done at the time. It would have been almost impossible for them to recall who checked which window and what state of closure it had been in a month earlier.

[maggie]

A case of Jeremy (once again) over egging. 

Yes, that episode has always raised questions in my mind but I still don't know how anyone could have locked that top window from the outside ...

[Jan]

Given the amount of plods going through the house, probably looking at all security with little more than cursory glances because they thought it was a suicide and 4 murders, it's unlikely that proper checks were done at the time. It would have been almost impossible for them to recall who checked which window and what state of closure it had been in a month earlier.

confirmed by the Dickinson report the windows and doors were all noted immediately  as secured from the inside except the dairy window which was covered by mesh and the upstairs window open a few inches.

We all have our differing opinions and I bow to the judgement  which said nothing had to be proven ( meaning it wasn't)- however if I can been defending I would have queried the replies from Barlow and Jones and I would have asked for the jury to visit  check the window and also see if that a person of JB size could get through that one window. Just saying that's all.

I am surprised the family did not just find a ladder and say he used that to exit the bedroom window.

I also find it surprising that people who think he was innocent think the silencer could be planted - but that lies could not have been told about this vital bit of evidence.

[scipio_usmc]

Obviously it's easy to lock the main casement window but I still question how anyone can lock the small window above the main window.  Not arguing just saying and I might point out I have a very strong desire to understand and quite willing to accept what you say but find it hard to believe anyone could lock the top window, maybe they could let it fall to appear to be locked.

Obviously the defense took closeups of the window, maybe Mike can post these photos.  We would have to see them to know whether the top fanlight window had a lock. Some say it was usually left open.  Since the casement window lock could not be set just by reaching inside and required the addition banging to get it to lock then logically that means one could not reach in through that window to unlock the casement window and thus locking the small fanlight would not be an issue.