Russia - worrying?

[gringo]

On the contrary. I have studied Hitler's Germany and to some extent Stalin's Russia (remember the show trials of the 1930s), as has Putin. It's quite clear to me that Putin's Russia manifests many of the same traits.

    Many of what same traits?

[Steve_uk]

    Many of what same traits?

One man in charge practising divide and rule, no free press, no independent mass media, killing of political opponents, corruption on a large scale amongst Putin's coterie, no free and fair elections and no accountability.

[gringo]

One man in charge practising divide and rule, no free press, no independent mass media, killing of political opponents, corruption on a large scale amongst Putin's coterie, no free and fair elections and no accountability.

    None of which is true. The people that you refer to as "Putin's political opponents" aren't his political opponents. His real political opponents meanwhile are alive and well. Nemtsov and Navalny were no more Putin's political rivals than Screaming Lord Sutch is a political opponent than whoever the UK government of the day is. They were/are both utterly irrelevant political figures in Russia.
     The Communist Party are easily the second largest opposition in Russia. They are Putin's political opponents and alive and well. They freely criticise Putin and United Russia, have a solid base of support and stand and win in all elections winning many seats.
     Navalny's support never rose above 3% or so and he is relevant only in western media. Putin undeniably has widespread and overwhelming support in Russia, way more than our dubiously elected "leaders".
      Whether you like it or not, Putin is by magnitudes the most significant World leader of the 21st century and it isn't close. The support that Russia has, along with China, across the non western world is plain to see. 80% + of Russia support Putin, 80% + of the world are backing Putin/Russia.
      All of the above is objectively and provably true. Your pathetic whinge-fest is believed only by gullible consumers of western reporting or what you call, "studying Stalin's Russia" or something.

[Steve_uk]

    None of which is true. The people that you refer to as "Putin's political opponents" aren't his political opponents. His real political opponents meanwhile are alive and well. Nemtsov and Navalny were no more Putin's political rivals than Screaming Lord Sutch is a political opponent than whoever the UK government of the day is. They were/are both utterly irrelevant political figures in Russia.
     The Communist Party are easily the second largest opposition in Russia. They are Putin's political opponents and alive and well. They freely criticise Putin and United Russia, have a solid base of support and stand and win in all elections winning many seats.
     Navalny's support never rose above 3% or so and he is relevant only in western media. Putin undeniably has widespread and overwhelming support in Russia, way more than our dubiously elected "leaders".
      Whether you like it or not, Putin is by magnitudes the most significant World leader of the 21st century and it isn't close. The support that Russia has, along with China, across the non western world is plain to see. 80% + of Russia support Putin, 80% + of the world are backing Putin/Russia.
      All of the above is objectively and provably true. Your pathetic whinge-fest is believed only by gullible consumers of western reporting or what you call, "studying Stalin's Russia" or something.

None of Putin's political opponents can get established. It's a bit like killing the Gang of Four SDP in the 1980s, or assassinating Nigel Farage now, except Putin gets away with it and no repercussions. You mention the Belt and Road Initiative: all built with Chinese labour paid peanuts with no free trades unions.

Of course we never hear any of this from the Left.

[gringo]

None of Putin's political opponents can get established. It's a bit like killing the Gang of Four SDP in the 1980s, or assassinating Nigel Farage now, except Putin gets away with it and no repercussions. You mention the Belt and Road Initiative: all built with Chinese labour paid peanuts with no free trades unions.

Of course we never hear any of this from the Left.

    There is nothing but the fevered imaginations of western media that links those deaths to Putin. Most of the money and wealth looted from Russia in the post-Soviet period is parked in City of London banks. The looted wealth has distorted the economy there. Many of those Russian expats are wanted in Russia for fraud and embezzlement but remain here protected by the UK. Putin ended that looting and Russia's economic performance, increase in living standards since Putin first took office is phenomonal and undeniable.
     Navanly, Nemtsov have plenty of enemies- I doubt Putin ever gave them a fleeting thought. Both of them would have invited in the Western corporations and financiers to continue their looting of Russia's vast resources and wealth. This explains why they have no support in Russia but are treated in the West as if they are the legitimate opposition to Putin's United Russia party.
     You have been informed before but just ignore inconvenient facts. The opposition to United Russia are the Communist Party. This doesn't suit any western narrative so they are ignored and also alive and well despite being Putin's real political rivals. You don't even know the name of the leader of the Communist Party but you have name recognition for the Russian equivalent of the leader of Britain First and the Reform party. Imagine a foreign media reporting UK politics in such a way.
     It's Gennady Zyuganov by the way, Steve. Leader of the opposition in Russia. The Communists. The state of Western media is embarrassing.
     
     

[Steve_uk]

    There is nothing but the fevered imaginations of western media that links those deaths to Putin. Most of the money and wealth looted from Russia in the post-Soviet period is parked in City of London banks. The looted wealth has distorted the economy there. Many of those Russian expats are wanted in Russia for fraud and embezzlement but remain here protected by the UK. Putin ended that looting and Russia's economic performance, increase in living standards since Putin first took office is phenomonal and undeniable.
     Navanly, Nemtsov have plenty of enemies- I doubt Putin ever gave them a fleeting thought. Both of them would have invited in the Western corporations and financiers to continue their looting of Russia's vast resources and wealth. This explains why they have no support in Russia but are treated in the West as if they are the legitimate opposition to Putin's United Russia party.
     You have been informed before but just ignore inconvenient facts. The opposition to United Russia are the Communist Party. This doesn't suit any western narrative so they are ignored and also alive and well despite being Putin's real political rivals. You don't even know the name of the leader of the Communist Party but you have name recognition for the Russian equivalent of the leader of Britain First and the Reform party. Imagine a foreign media reporting UK politics in such a way.
     It's Gennady Zyuganov by the way, Steve. Leader of the opposition in Russia. The Communists. The state of Western media is embarrassing.
     
   

Did Putin take on the criminals inside Russia or become an oligarch himself? If you can't beat them, join them..https://youtu.be/cIocvcfH-hI

How about taking them on by legal means or is that not Putin's way? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_(2022%E2%80%932023)

Russia's economic performance post-sanctions: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/04/the-uk-recession-will-be-almost-as-deep-as-that-of-russia-economists-predict.html#:~:text=Economy-,The%20UK%20recession%20will%20be%20almost%20as,that%20of%20Russia%2C%20economists%20predict&text=In%20its%202023%20macro%20outlook,a%200.9%25%20expansion%20in%202024.

Zyuganov is no threat. Had he been he would have been poisoned by a Novichok by now. https://jacobin.com/2022/09/putin-war-ukraine-communist-party-russia-gennady-zyuganov-kprf-history

[Steve_uk]

Goebbels-like propaganda in Putin's Russia. https://youtu.be/j1C8awu_d6Y

[Steve_uk]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

[Roch]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

There's no balance in any of the reporting though Steve. There's no alternative version or Russian version or counter opinion from experts. For all we know it could be exactly what it says in our media. But what if it isn't?

[gringo]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

    You sound unhinged. The opinion of most of the world is that the Western Imperialists(US, NATO, UK, EU) are the barbarians and that Russia/Putin along with China offer the opportunity to remove the Imperialist boot from the neck of the World.
    Russia's "defanging" of NATO is crucial for the world to move on from centuries of Western colonialism, imperialism, warmongering and exploitation. You carry on sucking up the last breaths of pathetic propaganda coming from the extremely ill and dying West but ignore the wars, invasions, destruction and millions of deaths caused by those same regimes. It won't change anything.
     NATO, the ultimate enforcer of the Western, "Rules Based Order", has been shown to be a paper tiger in the eyes of the world. This is what the world sees, not the propagandised and censored nonsense that you consider news.

[gringo]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

    An example of what Roch referred to as the one sided view for you Steve. In Raqqa(Syria) the US used phosphorous munitions on civilians, massively and deliberately, killing countless thousands;

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/6/14/un-staggering-civilian-deaths-in-raqqa-offensive

    Here are the BBC reporting on the same;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40271450

    Missing is any condemnation or use of words such as barbaric from the reporting which is a whitewash. To be clear, the brutal bombing of Raqqa was the deliberate targeting of civilians. They were targeted with white phosphorous which is indiscriminate and causes horrific injuries for those not killed. It is by magnitudes more horrific than the example you gave which is enough, for you, to label the entirety of Russia as barbarians.
     Raqqa is not an aberration. I could have named many places, too many to bother to list, all equally or even more brutal victims of Western military "interventions". There are no equivalents in the world to Western barbarism which is apparently invisible to you.

[gringo]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

    This is all "according to Ukrainian officials". Or in other words, bullshit. It was almost certainly a Ukrainian air defence missile, as usual. A "manufactured atrocity" like so many others. Most of the world and increasingly the West have realised that the Western media is the "boy who cried wolf". Most have also realised that all the previous "wolves" that the west cried about turned out not to be real wolves at all. In an added twist, it turns out the western media are spokespersons for real wolves.
      In other words, the western media is now seen by most of the world as, "the wolf who cried wolf". The world knows who the wolves are now, whilst western media still pretends that wolves are shepherds.
     

[Steve_uk]

    An example of what Roch referred to as the one sided view for you Steve. In Raqqa(Syria) the US used phosphorous munitions on civilians, massively and deliberately, killing countless thousands;

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/6/14/un-staggering-civilian-deaths-in-raqqa-offensive

    Here are the BBC reporting on the same;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40271450

    Missing is any condemnation or use of words such as barbaric from the reporting which is a whitewash. To be clear, the brutal bombing of Raqqa was the deliberate targeting of civilians. They were targeted with white phosphorous which is indiscriminate and causes horrific injuries for those not killed. It is by magnitudes more horrific than the example you gave which is enough, for you, to label the entirety of Russia as barbarians.
     Raqqa is not an aberration. I could have named many places, too many to bother to list, all equally or even more brutal victims of Western military "interventions". There are no equivalents in the world to Western barbarism which is apparently invisible to you.

Bu this was to destroy Islamic State. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_the_Islamic_State

[gringo]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

     The evolution of this story contains many lessons, Steve, the taking on board of which would benefit you. The "New York Times" yesterday reported the results of their "investigation" of the "missile attack on Kostiantynivka market". The same "missile attack" that previously you had already, without any evidence, blamed Russia. All the "evidence" that you required was all the media that you trust said so. No dissent from that opinion was allowed. The "investigation" by NYT below;

 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html

     RT reporting the same investigation;

https://swentr.site/russia/583187-konstantinovka-missile-nyt-investigation/

     The truth is still somewhat murkier still, Steve, in my opinion. The evidence of the missile attack on the market was, thanks to some eagle eyed members of the hive mind that thrives on the internet, already very public via social media and alternative news sources. This is where it gets interesting for those prepared to think critically. The "missile attack" initially reported was it seems reported both accurately and inaccurately. Let's delve. It was a deliberately targeted missile attack. This is true, but there also now exists public and undeniable evidence that the direction that the missile came from proves that it wasn't the Russians.
     The evidence that the missile arrived from a direction that is inconsistent with Russian culpability was undeniable. This thanks to eagle eyes spotting, in footage taken and posted online, the reflection of the missile on the roof of parked cars, travelling from Ukrainian held territory. People on the ground also could be seen to look to in the same direction moments before the impact.
     For those who want to escalate and attack Russia directly this was a gift. Ukraine would be supplied with longer range missiles to attack inside Russian population centres in response. It is a false flag gone wrong (the released footage contained clues which blew the narrative). They can't admit that the missile attack was correctly reported as deliberate because that would implicate NATO directly, hence the "strayed off course" air defence missile bullshit story.
      The evidence suggests it was a US AGM-88 HARM missile. 
      You should learn to wait for actual evidence, Steve, and be way more objective. you are easy prey for any propagandist. Your comical caricature of Putin, Xi, Assad or any world leader considered an enemy of NATO clouds any reasonable judgement and allows you to believe the most outlandish claims with absolutely no evidence. You need to way more sceptical/cynical when reading the reports you link.

       

[gringo]

A barbaric attack from a barbaric Russian regime led by a barbaric Russian leader.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-missile-attack-kostiantynivka-ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-b1105270.html

     More on the atrocity at Kostiantynivka, which was definitely a targeted Russian attack until evidence accidentally released debunked that possibility, when it became obviously a stray missile and completely unintentional. MoA today;

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/09/new-york-times-acknowledges-ukrainian-origin-of-deadly-strike-.html