Russia - worrying?

[Hardy Boy]

I'm not a fan of Trump and wouldn't have him back. But Biden is like some weird corpse that they have somehow managed to make walk and talk.  Is he a real live human being? It's hard to tell.

The truth is, there never will be any good option for president just like there won't ever be any good option for PM. It's not allowed.

But Biden - I can't believe what I'm seeing.

I simply don't get it Roch, a Country like USA and those are the best two?  It's absolutly Bonkers,  he's semi consciuos and reminds me of one of those from Thunderbirds puppets in the 1960s but an older version.

[gringo]

I simply don't get it Roch, a Country like USA and those are the best two?  It's absolutly Bonkers,  he's semi consciuos and reminds me of one of those from Thunderbirds puppets in the 1960s but an older version.

   I think you're being harsh on the Thunderbird puppets

[gringo]

I would think Gringo, feelers have and are being put about, i do think there is a lot of discussions at lower levels.  I see Nato Sec, put something out the other week about concessions of Ukraine land for Ukraine Membership to Nato?  I know it will have to be at higher level, but they are put out for a reason, sometimes for a cushioning effect.

     https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/22/ukraines-army-is-running-out-of-men-to-recruit/

    An unthinkable headline in the Telegraph even a month or so back, reality is seeping through;

     "Ukraine's Army is running out of men to recruit, and time to win"

     "Victory may be in sight for Vladimir Putin"

     

[Hardy Boy]

   I think you're being harsh on the Thunderbird puppets

  He does though, look  how the puppets jaws used to move and their body movement...........  i love to watch him when he's boarding the Plane up the steps.  He hates the UK Gringo and iv'e no time for him, our Government's sucks up to them, i wish they would tell him to do one, all this shit about Closest ally, yeh right only when it suits them.

[Steve_uk]

    It should be realised by now that whatever you are being led to believe is the least likely explanation of events. According to western media, Putin is guilty of every suspicious death in Russia and of every Russian anywhere in the world. It is a comical media driven caricature. Does everyone think that there is only one possible person who might have wanted Prigozhin dead? What do we really know about the whole coup/not coup and Putin's relationship with Prigozhin?
    Could there be other actors who might also want Prig dead? Would Putin, if it were him, choose such a messy and headline grabbing spectacular? Who would choose a method like that?
    The ridiculous western media and establishment created comic book caricature of Putin is the propaganda that few see beyond and it is this caricature that has been indoctrinated into western media consumers that causes them to unquestioningly believe any crime attributed to him. Ask questions, lots of questions, of every premise and "fact" in western reporting. The accusations and reporting on Putin is bizarre and fantastical. Without the pre-existing premise that many in the west have(ie. it goes without saying that Putin is a tyrannical, murderous thug and probably eats babies) these stories would be dismissed if about anyone else as simply not believable or remotely credible.
     In the grand scheme of things, it is also largely irrelevant. Nothing changes. The BRICS summit in South Africa and what is coming from that is of way more significance to geopolitical events than the sideshow of Prig's death. The catastrophe of the Ukrainian/NATO counter-offensive and the inevitability of Ukraine/NATO defeat in Ukraine are also ignored by Western media. Look back a few weeks at the predictions of how this much trumpeted Counter-oink was going to cut the land bridge to Crimea and bla bla. The longer this is propped up by NATO then the worse the terms will be. Minsk 2 is going to look like the deal of the century in comparison.
     
   

No it's a pattern of events throughout Putin's term of office. https://youtu.be/vM04zNbsaJg

[Hardy Boy]

     https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/22/ukraines-army-is-running-out-of-men-to-recruit/

    An unthinkable headline in the Telegraph even a month or so back, reality is seeping through;

     "Ukraine's Army is running out of men to recruit, and time to win"

     "Victory may be in sight for Vladimir Putin"

   

I thought at first putin had made some mistakes, i now think he's set his defence up really well and without any air superiority it will be hard to break through his defence,  winter soon comes to that part of the world and it will be status quo again.  It's stalemate and Putin knows this, i think if Ukraine doesn't regain by Autumn [which i very much doubt] they will not regain at all?  The thing that everyone doesn't realise or forgets, he has the weapons to blow Ukraine off the map.

[gringo]

I thought at first putin had made some mistakes, i now think he's set his defence up really well and without any air superiority it will be hard to break through his defence,  winter soon comes to that part of the world and it will be status quo again.  It's stalemate and Putin knows this, i think if Ukraine doesn't regain by Autumn [which i very much doubt] they will not regain at all?  The thing that everyone doesn't realise or forgets, he has the weapons to blow Ukraine off the map.

    A more accurate assessment in my opinion HB, if we are using chess analogies, is that NATO/Ukraine are in Zugzwang.

    Zugzwang-a situation in which the obligation to make a move in one's turn is a serious, often decisive, disadvantage.

     What is zugzwang in real life?
Any real life situation where you have choices, all of them bad, and you have no choice but to choose. Where you cannot wait, but are forced to act.


     

[gringo]

No it's a pattern of events throughout Putin's term of office. https://youtu.be/vM04zNbsaJg

    There is only a pattern of western media linking every death in Russia to Putin using insinuation, innuendo and relying on the average western media consumer doing the rest. The comical infantilised caricature of Putin presented to western media audiences allows them to believe that every murder/suspicious death that occurs in Russia or to any Russian anywhere was planned by Putin from his Kremlin lair like some comic book villain.
     Whilst plotting the death of every possible rival he may have, having several terminal illnesses, personally planning all military operations and dictating over every aspect of life(judiciary etc) in Russia, we are also told that he is weak and hiding in a basement to avoid being overthrown.
     There is definitely a pattern of behaviour, Steve. That pattern of behaviour is that Western media outlets will say whatever they are told to by their paymasters. Unbelievably there are people who believe this contradictory nonsense   

[Hardy Boy]

    A more accurate assessment in my opinion HB, if we are using chess analogies, is that NATO/Ukraine are in Zugzwang.

    Zugzwang-a situation in which the obligation to make a move in one's turn is a serious, often decisive, disadvantage.

     What is zugzwang in real life?
Any real life situation where you have choices, all of them bad, and you have no choice but to choose. Where you cannot wait, but are forced to act.


   

HA HA i'd never heard of that term before, i can remember being put in a Zugzwang on more than a few occasions by NGB at Chess.

I think the Nato Countries have a get out clause though Gringo, they can always put the Zugzwang in Ukraine's hands and pretend they haven't a say?  I notice it is of German Origin, the fact that Germany is out of step with the US on Ukraine/Russia says alot

[gringo]

HA HA i'd never heard of that term before, i can remember being put in a Zugzwang on more than a few occasions by NGB at Chess.

I think the Nato Countries have a get out clause though Gringo, they can always put the Zugzwang in Ukraine's hands and pretend they haven't a say?  I notice it is of German Origin, the fact that Germany is out of step with the US on Ukraine/Russia says alot

   What you say is correct HB, the consequences of this abandonment though are what constitutes the Zugzwang that NATO are in. In a scenario where NATO do abandon Ukraine, obviously the Ukraine stage of this civilisational war ends almost immediately. There is no Ukraine without NATO/US money. But then what?
     NATO having put everything they had into defeating Russia via Ukraine and being defeated will have huge ramifications. Who would want defending by NATO in light of this. The complete destruction of a country and its manpower to just walk away. Defeat in Ukraine would be the first significant step in ending the NATO alliance. Exposed as weak and merely the muscle for corporate and financial interests. NATO can't walk away from Ukraine without being shown as weak, powerless and humiliated by those actions. Also NATO cannot continue supporting Ukraine without being shown as weak, powerless and humiliated by those actions. They have no good move to make but must make a move.
     That is the NATO zugzwang.
     Russia have time and resources to spare.

[Steve_uk]

    There is only a pattern of western media linking every death in Russia to Putin using insinuation, innuendo and relying on the average western media consumer doing the rest. The comical infantilised caricature of Putin presented to western media audiences allows them to believe that every murder/suspicious death that occurs in Russia or to any Russian anywhere was planned by Putin from his Kremlin lair like some comic book villain.
     Whilst plotting the death of every possible rival he may have, having several terminal illnesses, personally planning all military operations and dictating over every aspect of life(judiciary etc) in Russia, we are also told that he is weak and hiding in a basement to avoid being overthrown.
     There is definitely a pattern of behaviour, Steve. That pattern of behaviour is that Western media outlets will say whatever they are told to by their paymasters. Unbelievably there are people who believe this contradictory nonsense 

It's a totalitarian state now, akin to Hitler's Germany and more accurately, Stalinist Russia. No tactics are off the table to retain the grip on power. Of course there's no paper trail, just as there's no documentary evidence that Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust.

[gringo]

It's a totalitarian state now, akin to Hitler's Germany and more accurately, Stalinist Russia. No tactics are off the table to retain the grip on power. Of course there's no paper trail, just as there's no documentary evidence that Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust.

    That is quite bonkers, Steve, and demonstrates the state you have been whipped into.
      Totalitarianism?, Hitler , Stalinist(yawn), Holocaust, grip on power aaaghhh!
      You really put everything you had into that post, shame about your lack of any supporting evidence which can no doubt be blamed on the despotic tyrant Putin (insert evil laugh here) making sure that no evidence or paper trail is left 

[Steve_uk]

    That is quite bonkers, Steve, and demonstrates the state you have been whipped into.
      Totalitarianism?, Hitler , Stalinist(yawn), Holocaust, grip on power aaaghhh!
      You really put everything you had into that post, shame about your lack of any supporting evidence which can no doubt be blamed on the despotic tyrant Putin (insert evil laugh here) making sure that no evidence or paper trail is left

There is no paper trail is there? Putin lets his henchmen do the dirty work with no questions asked: political rivals such as Boris Nemtsov and Alexei Navalny, to name but two, opponents of the war in Ukraine thrown out of office windows, Russia oligarchs abroad hanged or poisoned, as are journalists who ask difficult questions. No independent police process, no independent judiciary or mass media.

It's a totalitarian state.

[gringo]

There is no paper trail is there? Putin lets his henchmen do the dirty work with no questions asked: political rivals such as Boris Nemtsov and Alexei Navalny, to name but two, opponents of the war in Ukraine thrown out of office windows, Russia oligarchs abroad hanged or poisoned, as are journalists who ask difficult questions. No independent police process, no independent judiciary or mass media.

It's a totalitarian state.

     There is no paper trail or any trail at all to link Putin to the incidents that you list, Steve. All there is to link Putin to any of your list is the delusional, paranoia fuelled innuendo in western media. You are indoctrinated to the point that you will believe any bat-shit accusation, no matter how implausible, as long as it is about Putin and Russians generally. Your critical faculties are shot.
     

[Steve_uk]

     There is no paper trail or any trail at all to link Putin to the incidents that you list, Steve. All there is to link Putin to any of your list is the delusional, paranoia fuelled innuendo in western media. You are indoctrinated to the point that you will believe any bat-shit accusation, no matter how implausible, as long as it is about Putin and Russians generally. Your critical faculties are shot.
     

On the contrary. I have studied Hitler's Germany and to some extent Stalin's Russia (remember the show trials of the 1930s), as has Putin. It's quite clear to me that Putin's Russia manifests many of the same traits.