Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005

[Mr. Gee]

I think that I inadvertently started this!  David stated that 'no one really bothers' reading Scipios posts.  I pointed out that this assertion was untrue.  Others then reinforced my statement.

We have great posters from both sides, on this forum.  I very much enjoy reading the case related debate.  There can be no better place to learn about this case.

Well I have to read his posts in order to answer them. But I must admit some of them are rather long?

[Mr. Gee]

If he actually left the gun and bullets out as he claimed then he would not have needed to stage bullets after the murders and instead of 30 bullets left in the kitchen there would have been 25 or less bullets in the kitchen.

The whole story of hearing rabbits far away from the house and getting the rifle out was clearly contrived so he could make up the tale of leaving it out.

So if he really left the gun and bullets out what would he have done if his dad had put them away?

[Mr. Gee]

I don't think the rabbits were far away from the house, scipio.  Think he saw or heard them close to the house.

I knew someone who kept a loaded shotgun up in his bedroom and if he heard a fox (I can't actually see what damage a rabbit could do in a farmyard?) he's just open the bedroom window and shoot the critters from there. He didn't bother to go outside.

[Alias]

So if he really left the gun and bullets out what would he have done if his dad had put them away?

He would have left the bullets out after the killings. We only have his word for the sequence of events.

[Caroline]

Jeremy admitted in court that it was more or less laziness that he hadn't put the rifle away,which would have only taken him 30 seconds to have done.
He's lucky it was on the settle because Claire Powell said it was on the kitchen table. I don't know who told her that during her interviews.

This has been the hardest part for Jeremy,that nobody was able to verify his story. Then again even some witness statements needed verifying too ! For every bit of evidence they had against Jeremy,there's certainly enough to say that he isn't guilty.

And yet he was convicted.

[Jan]

He made up the claim he left the gun and bullets out prior to the murders in an effort to suggest Sheila found a weapon of opportunity and the magazine was already loaded so Nevill would not have been able to catch her loading the magazine and to have stopped her before she could finish loading it and then inserting it in the gun.  Furthermore, he claimed he loaded the magazine in front of her so police would believe she would know how to reload it.  The gun was reloaded 2 different times.

Furthermore he claimed he left it out prior to the murders so that he could say the gun had no moderator of scope when he left it out.  A crazy Sheila removing the scope would look very suspicious so he claimed it was already not attached.  Furthermore he claimed the moderator wasn't attached so they would not know it had been used.  He made up what he did for set reasons he wanted to accomplish with the lies.

He thought it less likely people would believe she went to the closet herself to target the gun and bullets out and  if she did go to the closet herself the gun would have had the scope and moderator attached and she would not have removed them.  His lies were to overcome these issues.

He did not have to there was no locked gun cupboard - they were not exactly hard to get to .

And apparently there were guns and ammunition a plenty.

The family said NB would have tidied everything away - so you have no idea what happened after JB left . Sheila could have gone to the cupboard and been wandering around after the others went to bed.

[guest154]

Looks like goading to me! 

As boody usual eh?!


If Scip makes a good post, which he did, I will say so. And I have learned something new by reading his posts people don't like that because they don't like him.

[Caroline]

So if he really left the gun and bullets out what would he have done if his dad had put them away?

He didn't really leave them out.

[Jan]

And yet he was convicted.

yes he was - and that is why it would have been interesting to see more court transcripts .

Do you think the jury were misled by the judge on the possibility of it being a mixture of blood in the moderator ?

[Mr. Gee]

As boody usual eh?!


If Scip makes a good post, which he did, I will say so. And I have learned something new by reading his posts people don't like that because they don't like him.

Well I have actually remarked on his posts when he has made some good points although I don't like his derogatory manner with those who do not agree with him.

[guest154]

I believe she planned it that day. But of course you would have to explain the seeming coincidence of Bamber leaving the rifle on the settle on the same day as she planned the murders.

That's a good point actually, that would be a big unfortunate coincidence. (Hope I don't get told off for starting a Grahame fan club)   

I think that I inadvertently started this!  David stated that 'no one really bothers' reading Scipios posts.  I pointed out that this assertion was untrue.  Others then reinforced my statement.

We have great posters from both sides, on this forum.  I very much enjoy reading the case related debate.  There can be no better place to learn about this case.

Bad, Neil! Bad.

[scipio_usmc]

Think it's the vixens that scream at night, it is pretty blood curdling, we hear them at night round where I live.
I am sure it was only dusk when Jeremy saw the rabbits, that is the time of day they tend to pop out to feed before turning in for the night,  he claims he saw them when passing by the barn just before he entered the house.

Part of the reason his claims are not credible is because each time he spoke he had a different account.  His original account to those at the scene wa she heard rabbits from the kitchen and ran out to get them.

In his first statement  he claimed he saw rabbits from the kitchen, ran and fetched the gun and went out after them.

It was his second written statement when he claimed he left the kitchen, encountered the rabbits and ran back to the house to get his gun. 

During his interrogation he didn't address the issue beyond discussing loading the gun he didn't explain how he came across the rabbits.

When the details are so different from story to story it looks like he just made it up and as he went along he modified it to something that was more believable. 

He similarly modified where he supposedly left the gun and magazine.  He originally told police on the kitchen table but by the time he gave a statement changed it to the scullery and the magazine on the settle.

He originally claimed the gun didn't fit on the closet with the moderator attached so claimed it wasn't stored with it attached usually.  During his interrogation he changed it to not fitting in the case with the moderator attached.  He suggested the gun was routinely stored in its case not the cupboard and that he didn't know whether it could fit in the cupboard with the moderator attached.  When asked if Nevill would use it with the scope and moderator attached he replied that he didn't know what Nevill usually did.  Asked when he used it last he said a week to fortnight before taking it out to shoot the rabbits.

As soon as police confronted his with the fact AP was the last known user and that AP didn't find the weapon in the case but rather in the cupboard with the moderator and scope attached and put it away the same way Jeremy drastically changed his story.  He said that he repeatedly used the gun the week before the murders and Nevill did as well and claimed sometimes he found it in the cupboard with the moderator and scope attached but other times Neivll removed the scope and moderator to put it away.  If this were true why did he say he hadn't used it for a week for fortnight before?  he forgot repeatedly using it throughout the week?  Why did he say he didn't know if it fit in the closet with the moderator attached if he sometimes found it that way?  Why did he say he didn't know if Nevill ever used the scope and moderator if Nevill was installing it and sometimes leaving it that way when he put it away but other times removing it to put away?

It clearly seems that in order to prevent AAP form being the last known user he made up the claim he and Nevill repeatedly used it the weak prior to the murders and made up the tale of the scope and moderator sometimes being attached when he found the gun but other times not because nevill kept attaching and removing them.

There is no reason to remove the moderator except to clean it and the weapon and no need to remove the scope at all, the gun can be cleaned with the scope attached.  The barrel of the rifle detaches making it very easy to clean both halves of the gun, no need to remove the scope and if it is removed it needs to be rezeroed. Since he was not known to shoot rabbits that is a further reason to doubt he account.

He was asked as to how there would be 30 bullets remaining if his story were true that he took out  a box of 48-50 rounds and 25 were fired into the victims. He was unable to think up anything to account for the discrepancy and to this day can't. He had no explanation for why he would not have put the gun away and it is not credible that his parents left the bullets and gun out. His mother used the phone that had the bullets next to it.  These things are strongly suggestive he staged the bullets after the murders and staged too many because he didn't count the shots he had fired.

So when you look at everything together there are many red flags. 

When you add to this all the other evidence regarding Sheila not being able to have killed herself, the lack of evidence she loaded a gun, shot anyone else or beat anyone else, the fact Jeremy called Julie before police but lied about it, the fact that a phone call from Nevill doesn't fit into the known events of the killer entering the master bedroom and opening fire on both June and Nevill there plus Julie's testimony it is very difficult to see how Jeremy isn't the killer. 

Trying to get a pardon is a very tough task given all of the above.

[maggie]

Part of the reason his claims are not credible is because each time he spoke he had a different account.  His original account to those at the scene wa she heard rabbits from the kitchen and ran out to get them.

In his first statement  he claimed he saw rabbits from the kitchen, ran and fetched the gun and went out after them.

It was his second written statement when he claimed he left the kitchen, encountered the rabbits and ran back to the house to get his gun. 

During his interrogation he didn't address the issue beyond discussing loading the gun he didn't explain how he came across the rabbits.

When the details are so different from story to story it looks like he just made it up and as he went along he modified it to something that was more believable. 

He similarly modified where he supposedly left the gun and magazine.  He originally told police on the kitchen table but by the time he gave a statement changed it to the scullery and the magazine on the settle.

He originally claimed the gun didn't fit on the closet with the moderator attached so claimed it wasn't stored with it attached usually.  During his interrogation he changed it to not fitting in the case with the moderator attached.  He suggested the gun was routinely stored in its case not the cupboard and that he didn't know whether it could fit in the cupboard with the moderator attached.  When asked if Nevill would use it with the scope and moderator attached he replied that he didn't know what Nevill usually did.  Asked when he used it last he said a week to fortnight before taking it out to shoot the rabbits.

As soon as police confronted his with the fact AP was the last known user and that AP didn't find the weapon in the case but rather in the cupboard with the moderator and scope attached and put it away the same way Jeremy drastically changed his story.  He said that he repeatedly used the gun the week before the murders and Nevill did as well and claimed sometimes he found it in the cupboard with the moderator and scope attached but other times Neivll removed the scope and moderator to put it away.  If this were true why did he say he hadn't used it for a week for fortnight before?  he forgot repeatedly using it throughout the week?  Why did he say he didn't know if it fit in the closet with the moderator attached if he sometimes found it that way?  Why did he say he didn't know if Nevill ever used the scope and moderator if Nevill was installing it and sometimes leaving it that way when he put it away but other times removing it to put away?

It clearly seems that in order to prevent AAP form being the last known user he made up the claim he and Nevill repeatedly used it the weak prior to the murders and made up the tale of the scope and moderator sometimes being attached when he found the gun but other times not because nevill kept attaching and removing them.

There is no reason to remove the moderator except to clean it and the weapon and no need to remove the scope at all, the gun can be cleaned with the scope attached.  The barrel of the rifle detaches making it very easy to clean both halves of the gun, no need to remove the scope and if it is removed it needs to be rezeroed. Since he was not known to shoot rabbits that is a further reason to doubt he account.

He was asked as to how there would be 30 bullets remaining if his story were true that he took out  a box of 48-50 rounds and 25 were fired into the victims. He was unable to think up anything to account for the discrepancy and to this day can't. He had no explanation for why he would not have put the gun away and it is not credible that his parents left the bullets and gun out. His mother used the phone that had the bullets next to it.  These things are strongly suggestive he staged the bullets after the murders and staged too many because he didn't count the shots he had fired.

So when you look at everything together there are many red flags. 

When you add to this all the other evidence regarding Sheila not being able to have killed herself, the lack of evidence she loaded a gun, shot anyone else or beat anyone else, the fact Jeremy called Julie before police but lied about it, the fact that a phone call from Nevill doesn't fit into the known events of the killer entering the master bedroom and opening fire on both June and Nevill there plus Julie's testimony it is very difficult to see how Jeremy isn't the killer. 

Trying to get a pardon is a very tough task given all of the above.

Trying to get a pardon is always a tough task.

[scipio_usmc]

He did not have to there was no locked gun cupboard - they were not exactly hard to get to .

And apparently there were guns and ammunition a plenty.

The family said NB would have tidied everything away - so you have no idea what happened after JB left . Sheila could have gone to the cupboard and been wandering around after the others went to bed.

It doesn't matter that the cupboard didn't have a lock.  The issue is that Sheila had no interest in guns and would not have gone to the cupboard to get the weapon.  The weapon of choice of women during an argument is a frying pan and that was her weapon of choice as well according to Colin.  Men go for knives or less often guns.  Women go for frying pans and they have bene known to do damage wiht them.   

The story of leaving it out means she didn't have to go search for it, it was a weapon of opportunity that was available. It being left out for her to encounter with a loaded magazine at the ready increases the chance she would have opted for it as opposed to having to go to the cupboard and load the magazine herself. 

Furthermore, had she gone to the closet herself the gun would have had the moderator and scope attached.  Police didn't look for the moderator specifically because of his story that he left it out without the moderator attached.  They believed his claims and thus didn't think it was used which was why he told the story he did. A crazy sheila would not have bothered to remove the scope. He claimed the gun had no scope when he left it out so that issue would not come into play.

The entire tale was contrived including claiming he loaded the magazine right in front of Sheila so that means she would know how to load the magazine.  He could have loaded the gun in the study or the hall by the door. He said he was in a rush so that is what you would expect.  But no he claims he left the gun by the door then walked into the kitchen and dumped the bullets out by the phone to load it there.

The whole story was contrived and what he intended to accomplish with his lies is quite transparent.

[David1819]

It doesn't matter that the cupboard didn't have a lock.  The issue is that Sheila had no interest in guns and would not have gone to the cupboard to get the weapon.  The weapon of choice of women during an argument is a frying pan and that was her weapon of choice as well according to Colin.  Men go for knives or less often guns.  Women go for frying pans and they have bene known to do damage wiht them.   

The story of leaving it out means she didn't have to go search for it, it was a weapon of opportunity that was available. It being left out for her to encounter with a loaded magazine at the ready increases the chance she would have opted for it as opposed to having to go to the cupboard and load the magazine herself. 

Furthermore, had she gone to the closet herself the gun would have had the moderator and scope attached.  Police didn't look for the moderator specifically because of his story that he left it out without the moderator attached.  They believed his claims and thus didn't think it was used which was why he told the story he did. A crazy sheila would not have bothered to remove the scope. He claimed the gun had no scope when he left it out so that issue would not come into play.

The entire tale was contrived including claiming he loaded the magazine right in front of Sheila so that means she would know how to load the magazine.  He could have loaded the gun in the study or the hall by the door. He said he was in a rush so that is what you would expect.  But no he claims he left the gun by the door then walked into the kitchen and dumped the bullets out by the phone to load it there.

The whole story was contrived and what he intended to accomplish with his lies is quite transparent.

That's a bit of a stupid thing to assert