Bambers Application for Prerogative of Pardon 2005

[lookout]

I don't follow. He said he left the gun out. If there had been a phone call from his father, why would he have said the gun was in the cupboard? What would he have been hinting?

 Nothing to do with any phone call. This is on leaving WHF after his supper at 9.45 was it ? He'd left the gun on the settle,where probably he was used to leaving it before his father put them away ? It's said that the gun was on the settle because Sheila would have seen it possibly being put there ( as a come and get me ) then I said it wouldn't have been much different if Jeremy had shouted through on his way home," the gun's in the cupboard dad ".  An unlikely " hint " for someone who already made up their mind,regardless of where any gun would be,so long as one was available.

[scipio_usmc]

What was to have stopped Jeremy saying," the gun's in the cupboard,dad ?" It would have been as good a hint as having left it where he did. So I don't buy that.

He made up the claim he left the gun and bullets out prior to the murders in an effort to suggest Sheila found a weapon of opportunity and the magazine was already loaded so Nevill would not have been able to catch her loading the magazine and to have stopped her before she could finish loading it and then inserting it in the gun.  Furthermore, he claimed he loaded the magazine in front of her so police would believe she would know how to reload it.  The gun was reloaded 2 different times.

Furthermore he claimed he left it out prior to the murders so that he could say the gun had no moderator of scope when he left it out.  A crazy Sheila removing the scope would look very suspicious so he claimed it was already not attached.  Furthermore he claimed the moderator wasn't attached so they would not know it had been used.  He made up what he did for set reasons he wanted to accomplish with the lies.

He thought it less likely people would believe she went to the closet herself to target the gun and bullets out and  if she did go to the closet herself the gun would have had the scope and moderator attached and she would not have removed them.  His lies were to overcome these issues.

[susan]

Hello Neil  I think most members read Scipio's posts only a minority agree with them but hey ho that is what creates a healthy debate. It would be so boring if everyone agreed with each other all the time.

[susan]

Hello lookout none of us know if Ralph put the gun back in the cupboard after Jeremy left well if Jeremy did murder his family he would know of course.

[lookout]

He made up the claim he left the gun and bullets out prior to the murders in an effort to suggest Sheila found a weapon of opportunity and the magazine was already loaded so Nevill would not have been able to catch her loading the magazine and to have stopped her before she could finish loading it and then inserting it in the gun.  Furthermore, he claimed he loaded the magazine in front of her so police would believe she would know how to reload it.  The gun was reloaded 2 different times.

Furthermore he claimed he left it out prior to the murders so that he could say the gun had no moderator of scope when he left it out.  A crazy Sheila removing the scope would look very suspicious so he claimed it was already not attached.  Furthermore he claimed the moderator wasn't attached so they would not know it had been used.  He made up what he did for set reasons he wanted to accomplish with the lies.

He thought it less likely people would believe she went to the closet herself to target the gun and bullets out and  if she did go to the closet herself the gun would have had the scope and moderator attached and she would not have removed them.  His lies were to overcome these issues.

He didn't make up any claim,. That's just your auto-suggestion.

Whose gun was in the downstairs toilet ?

[scipio_usmc]

Hello lookout none of us know if Ralph put the gun back in the cupboard after Jeremy left well if Jeremy did murder his family he would know of course.

If he actually left the gun and bullets out as he claimed then he would not have needed to stage bullets after the murders and instead of 30 bullets left in the kitchen there would have been 25 or less bullets in the kitchen.

The whole story of hearing rabbits far away from the house and getting the rifle out was clearly contrived so he could make up the tale of leaving it out.

 

[susan]

Scipio I agree with you regarding the rabbits

[Neil]

If he actually left the gun and bullets out as he claimed then he would not have needed to stage bullets after the murders and instead of 30 bullets left in the kitchen there would have been 25 or less bullets in the kitchen.

The whole story of hearing rabbits far away from the house and getting the rifle out was clearly contrived so he could make up the tale of leaving it out.

Did the prosecution make great hay out of this point at Jeremy's trial?

[lookout]

If he actually left the gun and bullets out as he claimed then he would not have needed to stage bullets after the murders and instead of 30 bullets left in the kitchen there would have been 25 or less bullets in the kitchen.

The whole story of hearing rabbits far away from the house and getting the rifle out was clearly contrived so he could make up the tale of leaving it out.

The rabbits wouldn't have been that far from the house. If the back door was open,which it may well have been being August,then he'd have heard scurrying outside as it was becoming dusk. Not only scurrying,but actually tearing plant leaves.They squeak too.So because the conversation after supper wasn't yet raised in volume,you'd have heard a pin drop in and around the farmhouse.

[maggie]

If he actually left the gun and bullets out as he claimed then he would not have needed to stage bullets after the murders and instead of 30 bullets left in the kitchen there would have been 25 or less bullets in the kitchen.

The whole story of hearing rabbits far away from the house and getting the rifle out was clearly contrived so he could make up the tale of leaving it out.

I don't think the rabbits were far away from the house, scipio.  Think he saw or heard them close to the house.

[scipio_usmc]

Did the prosecution make great hay out of this point at Jeremy's trial?

They pointed it out.  I would not characterize it as great hay though, they put the most stress on the drawback evidence and other evidence proving Sheila didn't load a gun, fire a gun or beat Nevill.       

[scipio_usmc]

I don't think the rabbits were far away from the house, scipio.  Think he saw or heard them close to the house.

He said they were by the barn. At twilight it is difficult to see outside windows unless the lights are off and even then rabbits are not easy to see from a distance unless they happen to be under a light. With the exception of screaming when hurt I never heard rabbits making noise.  I have woods in the back of my house and the only mammals making noise are during fights or a screaming fox which is the most annoying thing ever.  They scream away for like 5 minutes straight. I don't know if they are calling friends or what but I would like to strangle them. When I moved her from NY I had no idea what that was at first. Eventually someone told me it was a fox.  I don't know about there but from twilight to dusk the bugs in woods and fields here make a ton of noise.  It is background noise you eventually become immune to but it is a racket that sounds like a jungle almost.   

 

 

[maggie]

He said they were by the barn. At twilight it is difficult to see outside windows unless the lights are off and even then rabbits are not easy to see from a distance unless they happen to be under a light. With the exception of screaming when hurt I never heard rabbits making noise.  I have woods in the back of my house and the only mammals making noise are during fights or a screaming fox which is the most annoying thing ever.  They scream away for like 5 minutes straight. I don't know if they are calling friends or what but I would like to strangle them. When I moved her from NY I had no idea what that was at first. Eventually someone told me it was a fox.  I don't know about there but from twilight to dusk the bugs in woods and fields here make a ton of noise.  It is background noise you eventually become immune to but it is a racket that sounds like a jungle almost.

Think it's the vixens that scream at night, it is pretty blood curdling, we hear them at night round where I live.
I am sure it was only dusk when Jeremy saw the rabbits, that is the time of day they tend to pop out to feed before turning in for the night,  he claims he saw them when passing by the barn just before he entered the house.

[Caroline]

 Nothing to do with any phone call. This is on leaving WHF after his supper at 9.45 was it ? He'd left the gun on the settle,where probably he was used to leaving it before his father put them away ? It's said that the gun was on the settle because Sheila would have seen it possibly being put there ( as a come and get me ) then I said it wouldn't have been much different if Jeremy had shouted through on his way home," the gun's in the cupboard dad ".  An unlikely " hint " for someone who already made up their mind,regardless of where any gun would be,so long as one was available.

What would be the point of that? There was no one alive to verify anything he said. I doubt Jeremy would have usually left the gun on the settle for his dad to put away - he could put it away himself. Besides, he said he left the magazine on the settle and the gun standing where the coats were (in one of his statements anyway).

[lookout]

What would be the point of that? There was no one alive to verify anything he said. I doubt Jeremy would have usually left the gun on the settle for his dad to put away - he could put it away himself. Besides, he said he left the magazine on the settle and the gun standing where the coats were (in one of his statements anyway).

Jeremy admitted in court that it was more or less laziness that he hadn't put the rifle away,which would have only taken him 30 seconds to have done.
He's lucky it was on the settle because Claire Powell said it was on the kitchen table. I don't know who told her that during her interviews.

This has been the hardest part for Jeremy,that nobody was able to verify his story. Then again even some witness statements needed verifying too ! For every bit of evidence they had against Jeremy,there's certainly enough to say that he isn't guilty.