Author Topic: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?  (Read 14943 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2015, 02:46:PM »
Thread created on SJ contaminating the silencer. .

It is an important issue.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 02:51:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2015, 02:58:PM »
Well I politely asked Caroline straight forward questions in post 80. After she said SJ contaminated the silencer.

Rather than answer, she abruptly claimed she had already answered. Although she had never said SJ contaminated the silencer before. As Patti said yesterday.


Caroline is on your side ????!!!!!

She believes JB is guilty

So do you , so why on earth does it matter  to YOU why she believes that ?

She then advised me to look through all the posts to find her alleged answers. 

My conclusion to this is -

There is no explanation on how SJ could expertly put Sheila's blood in the silencer. Days or weeks later.

There is no justification why SJ would do this.

There is no reason why the relatives would hand in a silencer with nothing on.




Caroline is on your side ????!!!!!

She believes JB is guilty

So do you , so why on earth does it matter  to YOU why she believes that ?


Offline Adam

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2015, 03:01:PM »



Caroline is on your side ????!!!!!

She believes JB is guilty

So do you , so why on earth does it matter  to YOU why she believes that ?

Wouldn't say Caroline is on my side  ;D

A thread has been created on Stan Jones contaminating the silencer. It is a serious accusation worth discussing fully.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2015, 03:03:PM »



Caroline is on your side ????!!!!!

She believes JB is guilty

So do you , so why on earth does it matter  to YOU why she believes that ?



Jan, have you EVER known him to WHOLLY agree with anyone? He sets himself apart even from those who believe Jeremy guilty. Some people are combative to the point of isolation.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2015, 03:06:PM »
Isn't this a tad childish ? Sides ? This is a debate,not about whose side is on whose. ::)

Offline Adam

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2015, 03:07:PM »


Jan, have you EVER known him to WHOLLY agree with anyone? He sets himself apart even from those who believe Jeremy guilty. Some people are combative to the point of isolation.

Well Caroline said she believed SJ contaminated the silencer.

This was after I had yesterday said I did not believe the police framed Bamber (you responded).

So obviously I will disagree with Caroline on this issue.

Nothing to do with setting myself apart. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2015, 03:09:PM »
Isn't this a tad childish ? Sides ? This is a debate,not about whose side is on whose. ::)



Lookout, whether we like it, or not, I can't see how, other than referring to "teams", it can be said any other way.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2015, 03:13:PM »


Lookout, whether we like it, or not, I can't see how, other than referring to "teams", it can be said any other way.




It rather depends on an individual April. As in " Question Time ",there are always those who support a certain part,sometimes you can tell,sometimes you can't,but they're ALL together as a team---------if you get me.

Offline Jane

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2015, 03:21:PM »



It rather depends on an individual April. As in " Question Time ",there are always those who support a certain part,sometimes you can tell,sometimes you can't,but they're ALL together as a team---------if you get me.


Yes, Lookout. I do, and just because I believe that Jeremy is guilty it doesn't suddenly make right those things I believed to be wrong before I changed my mind.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2015, 04:29:PM »
Thread created on SJ contaminating the silencer. .

It is an important issue.
I'm afrais that the only thing you feel is important is yourself Adam?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2015, 07:00:PM »
Well I politely asked Caroline straight forward questions in post 80. After she said SJ contaminated the silencer.

Rather than answer, she abruptly claimed she had already answered. Although she had never said SJ contaminated the silencer before. As Patti said yesterday.

She then advised me to look through all the posts to find her alleged answers. 

My conclusion to this is -

There is no explanation on how SJ could expertly put Sheila's blood in the silencer. Days or weeks later.

There is no justification why SJ would do this.

There is no reason why the relatives would hand in a silencer with nothing on.

I don't think SJ contaminated the silencer on his own - I suspect it was HIS IDEA!! I'm not answering your questions because in weeks to come you will ask me the same question(s) again. Whether or not Patti knows I believe the idea came from SJ or not - is neither here nor there. I have said it before and I will most likely say it again!! In fact, I had a rather long drawn out discussion with Scipio about it. If you can't be arsed to read what other people write because you're so wrapped up in your own opinion, then that's your problem.

In conclusion to this .....

I'm not interested in your conclusion because there is nothing CONCLUSIVE about it!  ::)
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Adam

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2015, 08:02:PM »
I don't think SJ contaminated the silencer on his own - I suspect it was HIS IDEA!! I'm not answering your questions because in weeks to come you will ask me the same question(s) again. Whether or not Patti knows I believe the idea came from SJ or not - is neither here nor there. I have said it before and I will most likely say it again!! In fact, I had a rather long drawn out discussion with Scipio about it. If you can't be arsed to read what other people write because you're so wrapped up in your own opinion, then that's your problem.

In conclusion to this .....

I'm not interested in your conclusion because there is nothing CONCLUSIVE about it!  ::)

Did he suggest it to Taff ?

Or did he have a secret meeting with other officers. And say to them 'hey the relatives gave me a silencer with nothing on'. Let's expertly put Sheila's blood in without anyone finding out'.

There is a thread on you're suggestion. So no, I won't forget what you said.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 08:15:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2015, 08:25:PM »
Did he suggest it to Taff ?

Or did he have a secret meeting with other officers. And say to them 'hey the relatives gave me a silencer with nothing on'. Let's expertly put Sheila's blood in without anyone finding out'.

There is a thread on you're suggestion. So no, I won't forget what you said.

Hurrah! Another thread  ::)
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Gemma

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2015, 06:04:AM »
I think I know what he means? He thinks that you are suggesting that some of her testimony was true? But he is wrong. What you believe is probably the same as what I believe as regards her testimony. That she lied, but there may be truth in some of it? Because a downright lie would probably not be believed. Therefore she possibly although not necessarily told a half truth? A half truth will be acknowledged by the prosecution and therefore be presumed to be the whole truth. So there may mave been certain things that were true, for example when she admitted to trying to strangle Jeremy.
But in any case that in no way presumes that you have defended her.
Grahame

Caroline can correct me if I'm wrong, but I take her to mean something like this: that she, personally, thinks that Jeremy, in some form or other, intimated to Julie that he was the killer, but while also admitting that Mugford's given testimony contains a number of lies.

I think Dan is looking Julie's evidence strictly from a “rules of the game”  perspective. He appears to be saying that regardless of whether or not you think he did confess to her, the lies she told (like the description of Sheila's body on the bed) discredit her as a witness, so  opinons about her as an individual are not relevant. Of course supporters of Jeremy despise Julie Mugford, but that is not the real issue.

In american courtroom dramas a classic scene is one in which the defence expose a significant lie in the testimony of a prosecution witness and there's commotion in the court. The judge pounds his gavel to maintain order, then makes it clear to the jury that the evidence of that witness should be “stricken from the record”. 

If that is what Dan is saying should have happened in Bamber's trial, then I agree with him. The guilty supporters evidently do not.

It's her status as a witness which is in question, not whether or not you feel support for her.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 06:47:AM by Gemma »

Offline Dan Straker

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Re: Why did the police frame Jeremy ?
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2015, 07:18:AM »
Grahame

Caroline can correct me if I'm wrong, but I take her to mean something like this: that she, personally, thinks that Jeremy, in some form or other, intimated to Julie that he was the killer, but while also admitting that Mugford's given testimony contains a number of lies.

I think Dan is looking Julie's evidence strictly from a “rules of the game”  perspective. He appears to be saying that regardless of whether or not you think he did confess to her, the lies she told (like the description of Sheila's body on the bed) discredit her as a witness, so  opinons about her as an individual are not relevant. Of course supporters of Jeremy despise Julie Mugford, but that is not the real issue.

In american courtroom dramas a classic scene is one in which the defence expose a significant lie in the testimony of a prosecution witness and there's commotion in the court. The judge pounds his gavel to maintain order, then makes it clear to the jury that the evidence of that witness should be “stricken from the record”. 

If that is what Dan is saying should have happened in Bamber's trial, then I agree with him. The guilty supporters evidently do not.

It's her status as a witness which is in question, not whether or not you feel support for her.

Thanks, Gemma. That is my basic point. Sounds like you've been watching reruns of Perry Mason. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA9t1nSGXXE