Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Or..

There had been two bodies downstairs in the kitchen, as recorded, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found upon entry, a murder no less, oh and a suicide!

what happened to your claim that she was shot by the police?
If it had been suicide, what motivation did the police have for moving her body?
And did the entire team collude there and then?

[mike tesko]

Hang on, give me a moment, please..

Here it is:-

FIVE KNOCKS ON DOOR HEARD OVER PHONE

MOVEMENT IN HOUSE AND VOICES

ONE DEAD MALE AND ONE DEAD FEMALE IN KITCHEN

REQUEST FOR SOCO, etc

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Here it is:-

FIVE KNOCKS ON DOOR HEARD OVER PHONE

MOVEMENT IN HOUSE AND VOICES

ONE DEAD MALE AND ONE DEAD FEMALE IN KITCHEN

REQUEST FOR SOCO, etc

This is after they entered, the knocks are the police entering then announcing!

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Remember,  this is commentary from afar... describing what they can hear on the phone, then commenting on what the BELIEVED to be the current status (2 dead), which was incorrect.

[mike tesko]

So, there exists corroborating evidence confirming that two bodies were found upon entry, to the premises/ kitchen - the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female. These exist in the form of timed police radio messages from the raid team inside the farmhouse, to senior officers who were concealed in a nearby outbuilding, and other police officers who were surrounding the farmhouse in a containment capacity, relayed to Chelmsford control room, and an independent source, an eavesdrop using an off the hook telephone handset nestling on a kitchen worktop which recorded the events separately as they unfolded...

Two dead bodies found in kitchen upon entry to kitchen - the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found in kitchen, a murder, and a suicide..

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Repetition is not corroboration.
Two dead in the kitchen was never said from inside the kitchen, only repeated upstream as a consequence of the initial window inspection.
Whilst the team entered the farm, the 'two dead' was still relayed to others, but it wasnt confirmed from inside the house.

[mike tesko]

Remember,  this is commentary from afar... describing what they can hear on the phone, then commenting on what the BELIEVED to be the current status (2 dead), which was incorrect.

No, it is correct, those eavesdropping heard Sheila Caffells screams up until the gun went off..

As far as I know, there were only male firearm officers in the chosen raid team who entered...

So, control room staff assumed there were two bodies found in the kitchen, and by some strange coincidence two police radio messages which came from the scene, one timed at 7.37am, the other at 7.38am, where its states, the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female, one dead male, one dead female...

Seems a bit far fetched trying to encourage anybody to believe such a misleading narrative to the fact that there could only have been one body found downstairs in the kitchen, when so much evidence which was not disclosed pretrial, or before the 2002 appeal hearing, existed, and still exists..

The contents of police logs are admissible in evidence!

[mike tesko]

Repetition is not corroboration.
Two dead in the kitchen was never said from inside the kitchen, only repeated upstream as a consequence of the initial window inspection.
Whilst the team entered the farm, the 'two dead' was still relayed to others, but it wasnt confirmed from inside the house.

So, you are advocating that various police officers made up a pack of lies about the find of two dead bodies when the raid team entered the kitchen, even though those responsible for introducing such misleading information into the operation were not and had not even been inside the farmhouse at all when they recorded the evidence...

Sorry, nobody is going to believe that malarky..

[TheBrilliantMistake]

The 2 bodies information came from HQIR. Not from inside the house.
The logs show this quite clearly.
There is no log of anybody from inside the house counting two.
Again "3 further bodies" came from HQIR, based on the initial confusion and resultant erroneous belief of two in the kitchen, prior to entry.

They got the kitchen identification wrong, it caused confusion...
They entered the house, whilst the misinformation was still being relayed upwards. They counted 5 dead, and so the initial assumption was 2 + 3.
This is not corroboration, but exacerbation of the initial error. Exacerbation from HQIR.

[mike tesko]

And so, as the narrative goes, only one body found downstairs in the kitchen upon entry, the other four bodies were discovered upstairs in bedrooms!

Great - so cops who thought it was a different set of body counts downstairs and upstairs, must have all been in agreement by the end of that day (7th August 1985) that only one body had been found upon entry to the kitchen of the farmhouse..

But hang on a moment...

Consider the following state of affairs!

[TheBrilliantMistake]

So, you are advocating that various police officers made up a pack of lies about the find of two dead bodies when the raid team entered the kitchen, even though those responsible for introducing such misleading information into the operation were not and had not even been inside the farmhouse at all when they recorded the evidence...

Sorry, nobody is going to believe that malarky..

Precisely the opposite.
They didnt make anything up. There was one misunderstanding regarding a Male or female in the kitchen which became 1 male and 1 female. This was then relayed to HQIR who would be lagging behind on info.
No officer inside the house claimed 2 bodies. The rumour was still doing the rounds whilst they were discovering the reality.

The repetition of the rumour (for illustrative purposes) isnt corroboration.
The next update from the house was 5 dead. Hence the assumption 3 more found (this assumption came from HQIR, not inside the house)

[Kaldin]

Sheila was shot where she was found IMO. She was not moved afterwards. If police had shot her, they would have attempted some kind of first aid.

[Adam]

Sheila was shot where she was found IMO. She was not moved afterwards. If police had shot her, they would have attempted some kind of first aid.

Do you believe the police pulled Sheila's legs after she died?

[Kaldin]

Do you believe the police pulled Sheila's legs after she died?

No.

[Adam]

No.

Do you think it was Crispy?