Author Topic: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?  (Read 37290 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #255 on: February 06, 2020, 04:38:PM »
Why don't any TV Company make a documentary, or drama series, based upon what has / is being discussed here about the tragedy at whf, on our forum?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 04:39:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline David1819

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #256 on: February 06, 2020, 04:50:PM »
I've only just scanned through it but yes, makes perfect sense to me. That's the opinion of a former EP officer, who knows how the police operated. He also wrote an excellent piece about the mindset and ethos of police at the time.

There is no evidence to support that narrative (in this case) and actually requires one to ignore evidence in order to believe it. If this is the same guy who overheard EP saying what a frame up JBs case was. He seems to have got the wrong end of the stick over who they were implying was behind it.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #257 on: February 06, 2020, 04:53:PM »
Listen up, and pay attention!

At one time, or another (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 8.10am) - there were two dead bodies reportedly come upon downstairs in the kitchen of the farmhouse, 'the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female' and 'a further three bodies found upstairs' in bedrooms, five dead in total...

Let's remind ourselves about the two bodies found upon entry to the kitchen - ' a murder, and a suicide'..

Ask yourselves, of the five victims, whose death in this investigation could be described or considered to have been by way of suicide?

Ralph Neville Bamber (shot a total of eight times) - murdered!

June Bamber (shot a total of seven times) - murdered!

Daniel Caffell (shot a total of five times) - murdered!

Nicholas Caffell (shot a total of three times) - murdered!

Sheila Caffell (shot a total of two times), one shot fired by use of a second weapon!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 05:09:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jan

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #258 on: February 06, 2020, 05:06:PM »
Listen up, and pay attention!

At one time, or another (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 8.10am) - there were two dead bodies reportedly come upon downstairs in the kitchen of the farmhouse, 'the body of one dead male and the body of one dead female' and 'a further three bodies found upstairs' in bedrooms, five dead in total...

Let's remind ourselves about the two bodies found upon entry to the kitchen - ' a murder, and a suicide'..

Ask yourselves, of the five victims, whose death in this investigation could be described or considered to have been by way of suicide?

Ralph Neville Bamber (shot a total of eight times) - murdered!
June Bamber (shot a total of seven times) - murdered!
Daniel Caffell (shot a total of five times) - murdered!
Nicholas Caffell (shot a total of three times) - murdered!

Sheila Caffell (shot a total of two times), one shot fired by use of a second weapon!







Yes but how did sheila get upstairs without the police seeing her ? You would have to be some type of gazelle to negotiate all the rubbish on the back stairs in the dark without knocking all the rubbish over .

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #259 on: February 06, 2020, 05:26:PM »


Walked, stumbled, crawled - the images of the spiral staircase in one corner of the  kitchen to the top landing record the state of affairs after Sheila used the same stairwell to leave the main kitchen shortly before 8.15am..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jan

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #260 on: February 06, 2020, 05:36:PM »
Walked, stumbled, crawled - the images of the spiral staircase in one corner of the  kitchen to the top landing record the state of affairs after Sheila used the same stairwell to leave the main kitchen shortly before 8.15am..


No they don’t . They just show stairs full of clutter and no clear path through .

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #261 on: February 07, 2020, 12:52:AM »

No they don’t . They just show stairs full of clutter and no clear path through .

How strange then, that after Sheila escaped the confines of the kitchen, that one particular firearms officer entered the spiral staircase in the corner of the kitchen, and proceeded to the latched door at the top of those stairs, all the while calling out Sheila Bambers name?

So, the police officer made that up, did he?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #262 on: February 07, 2020, 01:38:AM »
The 'two bodies' in the kitchen narrative, cannot easily be dismissed, because the recorded sequence of events does not support the claim that there was simply something of a mix up between cops outside the kitchen window peering into the kitchen prior to the firearms team entering the farmhouse, and them actually managing to get themselves into that kitchen, only to realise that the body they thought was a woman, had infact been the body of Ralph Neville Bamber..

The documentary evidence introduced by Essex police regarding this matter quite simply does not stack up!

First of all we have an observation by a police officer from outside the main kitchen window peering into the kitchen - he says he can see the body of a woman. But this is not reflected in any official operational log that supposedly records all communication between members of the raid team en route, and eventually after entry into the farmhouse, and senior officers who are stationed inside an outbuilding nearby, or for that matter, officers and civilian employees back in the control room at Chelmsford police station..

In particular, and for the moment disregard that sighting of Sheila Caffell as viewed by officers from the vantage point outside the kitchen window looking in, and the angle at which such a positive identification had been made of her..

Let's move to the nitty gritty, concerning when 'at last' the firearms officers managed to force entry into 'that' kitchen...

So, we are expected to believe that when firearms officers got into the kitchen (at about 7.35am) that they only discovered the body of Ralph Neville Bamber..

OK..

What we have at 'this' or 'that' stage, is a six man raid team, most of whom have physically entered the farmhouse kitchen. They all have personal radios through which they can instantly communicate with each other, and to senior officers elsewhere, in this instance in a nearby outbuilding, surrounding area, and the control room back at police headquarters in Chelmsford..

Cops enter kitchen..

Messages are passed, between interested parties...

Then how come, there is mention of the body of one dead male, before any mention is made concerning the presence of the body of one dead female, found upon entry?

Not only this, but the two bodies are described as 'A MURDER' and 'A SUICIDE'...

So, just to recap, we only have 'one body' found to be present downstairs in the kitchen upon entry. One dead male body!

Now this becomes somewhat intriguing, since bearing in mind that Ralph Neville Bamber had been shot at, and killed off by a total of eight bullets fired at him, four such bullets fired into the top part of his skull - how could it be possible for anyone, let alone firearm officers, to conclude that Ralph Neville Bamber had committed 'SUICIDE' downstairs in the kitchen at such an early stage in the police operation?

The only person whose death might possibly be described as a suicide, in the overall circumstances of this matter, involved the death of Sheila Caffell..

There is no way that by 7.42am, that police could have already made their way upstairs to the doorway of the main bedroom, and within, only to discover a second body, which they described as being dead by suicide. Since, according to police, the second body that would have been found in sequence was the body of June Bamber, apparently her body close to the open main bedroom door, her feet closest to the doorway. She had been shot a total of seven times. This being the case, how is it possible for anyone of sound mind or otherwise, to describe June Bambers death as a suicide?

Ralph Neville Bamber and his wife were both murdered!

Yet, according to the police logs, the second body which the firearms officers came upon was a body with cause of death being 'SUICIDE'...

It is not possible, for any firearm officer to have entered into the main bedroom via its doorways, to find the body of Sheila Caffell second in sequence of any body find! Cops would have come upon June Bambers body secondly, if beforehand they had only found the body of one dead male (Ralph Neville Bamber) downstairs in the kitchen. For the sake of being exact, if entry to the main bedroom had not been affected by the main bedroom door, but rather by the internal box room door, cops would have discovered the two bodies of the six year old boys, before they had come upon Sheila's body...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 05:25:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #263 on: February 07, 2020, 01:42:AM »

It is not possible, for any firearm officer to have entered into the main bedroom via its doorways, to find the body of Sheila Caffell second in sequence of any body find! Cops would have come upon June Bambers body secondly, if beforehand they had only found the body of one dead male (Ralph Neville Bamber) downstairs in the kitchen. For the sake of being exact, if entry to the main bedroom had not been affected by the main bedroom door, but rather by the internal box room door, cops would have discovered the two bodies of the six year old boys, before they had come upon Sheila's body...

Sheila Caffells body could only have been discovered either third in sequence (by entering the main bedroom by its main door from the landing), or fourth in sequence, if her body had been discovered by entry into the main bedroom via the children's bedroom, and the box room which linked the children's bedroom and the grandparents main bedroom...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 01:43:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #264 on: February 07, 2020, 01:45:AM »
What we are dealing with here, is a complete fabrication of the circumstances surrounding 'Sheila Caffells death', and the stage at which her body was found in sequence either side of the discovery of the other victims bodies!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 01:46:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #265 on: February 07, 2020, 01:50:AM »
What we are dealing with here, is a complete fabrication of the circumstances surrounding 'Sheila Caffells death', and the stage at which her body was found in sequence either side of the discovery of the other victims bodies!

This cannot be explained away as some sort of a mistaken identification, typing error, or a misunderstanding - it is clearly a false account introduced by Essex police to try and get away with them shooting Sheila twice, once during the operation (7.35am), and on a second occasion (9.13am) during 'INFORMATIVES' ..
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 01:52:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #266 on: February 07, 2020, 01:53:AM »
This cannot be explained away as some sort of a mistaken identification, typing error, or a misunderstanding - it is clearly a false account introduced by Essex police to try and get away with them shooting Sheila twice, once during the operation (7.35am), and on a second occasion (9.13am) during 'INFORMATIVES' ..

Jeremy Bamber did not shoot dead, his sister, Sheila Caffell..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #267 on: February 07, 2020, 11:48:AM »
The 'two bodies' in the kitchen narrative, cannot easily be dismissed, because the recorded sequence of events does not support the claim that there was simply something of a mix up between cops outside the kitchen window peering into the kitchen prior to the firearms team entering the farmhouse, and them actually managing to get themselves into that kitchen, only to realise that the body they thought was a woman, had intact been the body of Ralph Neville Bamber..

The documentary evidence introduced by Essex police regarding this matter quite simply does not stack up!

First of all we have an observation by a police officer from outside the main kitchen window peering into the kitchen - he says he can see the body of a woman. But this is not reflected in any official operational log that supposedly records all communication between members of the raid team en route, and eventually after entry into the farmhouse, and senior officers who are stationed inside an outbuilding nearby, or for that matter, officers and civilian employees back in the control room at Chelmsford police station..

In particular, and for the moment disregard that sighting of Sheila Caffell as viewed by officers from the vantage point outside the kitchen window looking in, and the angle at which such a positive identification had been made of her..

Let's move to the nitty gritty, concerning when 'at last' the firearms officers managed to force entry into 'that' kitchen...

So, we are expected to believe that when firearms officers got into the kitchen (at about 7.35am) that they only discovered the body of Ralph Neville Bamber..

OK..

What we have at 'this' or 'that' stage, is a six man raid team, most of whom have physically entered the farmhouse kitchen. They all have personal radios through which they can instantly communicate with each other, and to senior officers elsewhere, in this instance in a nearby outbuilding, surrounding area, and the control room back at police headquarters in Chelmsford..

Cops enter kitchen..

Messages are passed, between interested parties...

Then how come, there is mention of the body of one dead male, before any mention is made concerning the presence of the body of one dead female, found upon entry?

Not only this, but the two bodies are described as 'A MURDER' and 'A SUICIDE'...

So, just to recap, we only have 'one body' found to be present downstairs in the kitchen upon entry. One dead male body!

Now this becomes somewhat intriguing, since bearing in mind that Ralph Neville Bamber had been shot at, and killed off by a total of eight bullets fired at him, four such bullets fired into the top part of his skull - how could it be possible for anyone, let alone firearm officers, to conclude that Ralph Neville Bamber had committed 'SUICIDE' downstairs in the kitchen at such an early stage in the police operation?

The only person whose death might possibly be described as a suicide, in the overall circumstances of this matter, involved the death of Sheila Caffell..

There is no way that by 7.42am, that police could have already made their way upstairs to the doorway of the main bedroom, and within, only to discover a second body, which they described as being dead by suicide. Since, according to police, the second body that would have been found in sequence was the body of June Bamber, apparently her body close to the open main bedroom door, her feet closest to the doorway. She had been shot a total of seven times. This being the case, how is it possible for anyone of sound mind or otherwise, to describe June Bambers death as a suicide?

Ralph Neville Bamber and his wife were both murdered!

Yet, according to the police logs, the second body which the firearms officers came upon was a body with cause of death being 'SUICIDE'...

It is not possible, for any firearm officer to have entered into the main bedroom via its doorways, to find the body of Sheila Caffell second in sequence of any body find! Cops would have come upon June Bambers body secondly, if beforehand they had only found the body of one dead male (Ralph Neville Bamber) downstairs in the kitchen. For the sake of being exact, if entry to the main bedroom had not been affected by the main bedroom door, but rather by the internal box room door, cops would have discovered the two bodies of the six year old boys, before they had come upon Sheila's body...

Nobody inside the building reported two dead bodies in the kitchen. They only reported one dead male in the kitchen.

The entire 'two bodies' situation was only prior to entry and can be explained readily. The explanation isn't believed by some, but it it born out by the subsequent evidence having entered the building.

Offline Roch

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #268 on: February 07, 2020, 11:57:AM »
Nobody inside the building reported two dead bodies in the kitchen. They only reported one dead male in the kitchen.

The entire 'two bodies' situation was only prior to entry and can be explained readily. The explanation isn't believed by some, but it it born out by the subsequent evidence having entered the building.

This isn't strictly correct.  The bodies were reported "found on entry to premises" "one dead male.  one dead female".   Later on, it is recorded that a further three bodies are found (i.e. upstairs). 

What is odd in my opinion is the reference in police statements regarding Collins' looking through the window and making his mistake.  It all seems a bit contrived. 

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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Re: Two bodies in the kitchen. A time for closure ?
« Reply #269 on: February 07, 2020, 11:59:AM »
This cannot be explained away as some sort of a mistaken identification, typing error, or a misunderstanding - it is clearly a false account introduced by Essex police to try and get away with them shooting Sheila twice, once during the operation (7.35am), and on a second occasion (9.13am) during 'INFORMATIVES' ..

To have shot her twice - by accident, at extremely close range with the same bullet types and calibre and moved a body is unfathomable, and it then flies in the face of having supposedly spotted her in the kitchen already, seemingly incapacitated.