Would the People Who Help Jeremy Really Continue to do so if the phone calls proved Guilt

[Caroline]

He also had to believe that they wouldn't be able to establish time of death, which is a more doubtful.

This isn't just true in respect to Jeremy, it applies to many killers and yet end justifies the means. You're looking at it in hindsight and with the benefit of a lot of debate that has covered many aspects, there are obviously lots of things he didn't consider - which doesn't make him innocent, just careless. However, I very much doubt back in 1985 that they were able to pin point TOD with that much accuracy and the best they could hope for was within a few hours - it wasn't a secret and I'm sure they had cop shows on during that time that discussed such things.

[nugnug]

they had 5 bodys to work on they should of been able to get at least a vague time of death.

[scipio_usmc]

would they?

People help Jeremy though the moderator and other evidence even more damning proves he is guilty so the fact that the phone evidence is an even lesser leap for such people.

[lookout]

 Tapes were removed for examination from Jeremys' answerphone,but guess what ? The results were never available to the defence. What a surprise.

[lookout]

The kitchen phone had been used by one of the officers who would have covered any fingerprints that would have been there,plus losing the facility to pick up the last call.

[Jan]

The kitchen phone had been used by one of the officers who would have covered any fingerprints that would have been there,plus losing the facility to pick up the last call.

I have never been able to get to the bottom of this because another book says he used the upstairs office phone ( the kitchen phone would still have to been put back on the cradle though which means the CS photos may not be accurate)

The upstairs office phone was mentioned because it had last number redial - which apparently was the police station.

[lookout]

I have never been able to get to the bottom of this because another book says he used the upstairs office phone ( the kitchen phone would still have to been put back on the cradle though which means the CS photos may not be accurate)

The upstairs office phone was mentioned because it had last number redial - which apparently was the police station.

If Neville made two calls,then he could easily have also used two phones dependant where he was regarding his " escape " route. Kitchen phone to ring Jeremy and the office one for the police.

[Jan]

If you were Jeremy , and we have to take into account that he never said any shots had been fired when he called - how do you think he would have calculated whether the police would have gone rushing in to try and save the children straight away - or hang outside for hours ?

even if it happened today , would you have any idea which way the police would approach this situation?

I am not sure I would be able to accurately calculate their reaction in my "plan"?

[lookout]

 Nowadays they'd probably storm the place if they thought the lives of children were in danger. There are specialised officers for that job but whether they had the same with the appropriate equipment back then,I wouldn't know.
I still can't get my head around the nearly 3 hour hanging around bit though,knowing that lives could well be lost.

[Adam]

There has been a lot of people Jeremy has approached for help. But they have ended up doing more than good. Once they do not believe in his innocence.

Harrison approaching his book on the assumption it was a MOJ, then changing stance,  has happened before. The 'Crimes, hearts and Coronets' author took the same approach and came to the same conclusion. 

In fact, it  seems a lot of experts hired by the defence or Jeremy have failed to help him. 

Paul Terzeon when first looking at the case realised how difficult the case was going to be to win. So looked for help. 

Several psychiatrists hired by the defence said Sheila was not capable of going into such a murderous frenzy. 

Next the defence tried Professor Bernard Knight. His feedback was to say Sheila could not have been responsible for the massacre. 

Dr Patrick Lincoln was then hired. His conclusion was the blood inside the silencer was specific to Sheila Caffell. 

A week before the trial, a psychiatrist hired by the defence stated that Jeremy showed the classic signs of being a psychopath. Being able to blank out what he may have done. 


During trial, John Hayward testified there was human blood in Jeremy' car, his clothes and a bathrobe. Together with confirming the silencer blood belonged to Sheila. 


The immediate years after conviction was spent trying to discredit John Hayward's blood testimony. Jeremy hiring more experts.  Together with making a complaint about Essex police. Without any success on either issue. Jeremy reacted badly. Writing in excrement 'FREE BAMBER HE IS INNOCENT' on prison walls. 

Professor Leon MacDonnell was then hired. But his conclusions were damning. Such as June being shot with her head on the pillow. Thread previously created by me. 

There has since been approaches by Jeremy to politicians & reporters. And the inevitable appeals. He also co operated on Wilkes's book. These have had hardly any success. Appeals failing, Woffinden turning on him, & Wilkes's unbiased book sadly showing guilt rather than innocence. Only Andrew Hunter has remained loyal, but rarely comes out to play. 

[maggie]

Hi Adam, you conveniently ignore all those who support Jeremy after close investigation ie Scott Lomax and Eric Allison for starters.

[lookout]

 I've noticed this for a long time now Maggie. Not interested in anything but guilt.

[Reader]

A week before the trial, a psychiatrist hired by the defence stated that Jeremy showed the classic signs of being a psychopath. Being able to blank out what he may have done.

What classic signs? The only one you mention wouldn't mean anything in isolation, as an innocent person wouldn't have any guilty knowledge to blank out. Who was this "psychiatrist"?

[Mr. Gee]

What classic signs? The only one you mention wouldn't mean anything in isolation, as an innocent person wouldn't have any guilty knowledge to blank out. Who was this "psychiatrist"?

Yes I haven't been able to find any record of him/her either?

[maggie]

Yes I haven't been able to find any record of him/her either?

Have seen this mentioned every so often but guess it comes from speculation in a book, could be Wilkes, not sure I cant remember if ut was mentioned in there.
Hope you're feeling a little better this morning, Grahame.