Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[sandy]

I notice no-one has responded to the post explaining how Jeremy orchestrated a theft from his family 5 months before they were all murdered.  What else do we not know about this character?

Julie Mugford also said that in March or April 1985 she had helped Jeremy Bamber steal just under £1,000 from the office of the Osea Road caravan site his family owned.  She said he had stage-managed the break-in to make it seem as though strangers had done it. The admission added both to the picture of her own dishonesty and to Bamber's.

I don't care what anyone says, a guy who could do this to his own adoptive parents has no credibility.

It is interesting that he stage-managed that incident, was this a dry run for something bigger??

[simong]

You could argue that Julie helping him to rob his parents destroys her credibility. Without her testimony, he would probably be free. This case is not as straight forward as you think Sandy. I think that is why we are all on this forum 

[Paul]

Also if Jeremy had run or cycled back to Goldhanger he must of been sweaty.
No mention of this.

A world champion sprinter wouldn't have made it to Goldhanger in that time.

Running is out.

Biking is out.

That leaves only the car.

In a tiny little place where half the village would know he used his car at 3 amish.

Yet no one heard anything...

We don't know what time the killings occurred, it could have been at 1 am, giving the killer 2 hours at least to get back, so there'd be no need to be a sprinter if he decided to run all the way. He could have left a bike in a hedge at a half way point (or a convenient point) and rode on the road some of the way. So to me, both biking and running (or a combination of both) are both firmly in. And to me still, the use of the car is too risky - no matter what, you don't want anyone to see your car on the road near the farm at any time when it should be parked up at Goldhanger.

[chelmsey]

You could argue that Julie helping him to rob his parents destroys her credibility. Without her testimony, he would probably be free. This case is not as straight forward as you think Sandy. I think that is why we are all on this forum 

good post    +1   

[Hartley]

Lady C .... The Boutflours farm at Wix is currently for sale (at least it was about 6 weeks ago) and I heard they were moving to the Isle of Man. Makes me think the pressure is rising and what better place to go than the UK home of "funny money" the Isle of Man. Hartley will probably be able to tell you more being a relative or close family friend 

I did,nt know that. Hartley please explain.

Groan  Thought we'd already done this. 

[andrea]

i must have missed it hartley, explain again 

[Hartley]

i must have missed it hartley, explain again 

Just a bit of daftness.

Have a look at the last couple of pages of this thread: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,303.0.html

[andrea]

just read. it was wishfull thinking i reckon 

[chochokeira]

Also if Jeremy had run or cycled back to Goldhanger he must of been sweaty.
No mention of this.

A world champion sprinter wouldn't have made it to Goldhanger in that time.

Running is out.

Biking is out.

That leaves only the car.

In a tiny little place where half the village would know he used his car at 3 amish.

How would that be exactly?  Don't people sleep at night?....

Posted by Sandy at 2.55 am!

[chochokeira]

Also if Jeremy had run or cycled back to Goldhanger he must of been sweaty.
No mention of this.

A world champion sprinter wouldn't have made it to Goldhanger in that time.

Running is out.

Biking is out.

That leaves only the car.

In a tiny little place where half the village would know he used his car at 3 amish.

Yet no one heard anything...

We don't know what time the killings occurred, it could have been at 1 am, giving the killer 2 hours at least to get back, so there'd be no need to be a sprinter if he decided to run all the way. He could have left a bike in a hedge at a half way point (or a convenient point) and rode on the road some of the way. So to me, both biking and running (or a combination of both) are both firmly in. And to me still, the use of the car is too risky - no matter what, you don't want anyone to see your car on the road near the farm at any time when it should be parked up at Goldhanger.

I can't get my head around the idea of the murders occurring that early. Why do you believe that might have been the case, Paul?

[John]

Didn't Neville or someone pretending to be him phone after 3.0am?

That can only mean one of two things as regards the time of the deaths.

1. If it was indeed Neville the death occurred just after 3am.

2. If it wasn't Neville the deaths could have occurred any time before or slightly after 3.00am.

[chelmsey]

I had never looked at it like that before.Of course you are correct.If Ralph did indeed phone JB obviously he was still alive at that time.If only the doctor could of estimated the times of their deaths.Jb couldnt of counted on that happening,or rather not happening......surely?

[John]

I don't think we can go much beyond 3am really.  The gunman whoever it was would have wanted to make sure that they were all dead and especially Neville as he probably knew the killer.

It seems Neville got out of his bed to confront the intruder downstairs.  Does that mean that he was shot first following the fight which ensued?

[VORTEX]

I notice no-one has responded to the post explaining how Jeremy orchestrated a theft from his family 5 months before they were all murdered.  What else do we not know about this character?

Julie Mugford also said that in March or April 1985 she had helped Jeremy Bamber steal just under £1,000 from the office of the Osea Road caravan site his family owned.  She said he had stage-managed the break-in to make it seem as though strangers had done it. The admission added both to the picture of her own dishonesty and to Bamber's.

I don't care what anyone says, a guy who could do this to his own adoptive parents has no credibility.

It is interesting that he stage-managed that incident, was this a dry run for something bigger??

Sandy,  I think you are forgeting the exact circumstances around the Osea Road caravan Site robbery - there had been ongoing conversations about security at the site and Jeremy felt that it was not good enough (there had been a number of incidents with the locals / kids around this time). The robbery was partly to prove a point that security was still not good enough and more action was required. Jeremy was keen to prove to Robert Boutflour his Uncle that it was still not up to scratch after security improvements had been made. Jeremy and Robert Boutflour disagreed on how to deal with security at the site and Jeremy owned part of it, so in theory he was stealing from himself as well as the family. I can kind of understand why he stole the money as he wasn't being given / paid the same share as his cousin Ann Eaton (so perhaps he saw it as his anyway). There is quite a difference in stealing a few quid and murder. Don't forget Mugford was happy to be involved so does that cloud your judgement of her also?

[Alias]

I don't think we can go much beyond 3am really.  The gunman whoever it was would have wanted to make sure that they were all dead and especially Neville as he probably knew the killer.

It seems Neville got out of his bed to confront the intruder downstairs.  Does that mean that he was shot first following the fight which ensued?

If the rifle was fully loaded from get go, there wouldn´t have been a physical fight. There would have been enough bullets in the rifle to kill Nevill. The handle of the rifle allegedly was turned towards Nevill to hit him. My guess is that the fight ensued between emptying and re-loading the rifle.
I am sorry, I am a total newbie to this case - I am reading all I can, but time is limited in my daily life; but I would like to ask: were chips from the rifle found in the kitchen?